Very interesting Beng. Thanks for the link. From that, it does at least make sense that they're in that type of site. The disjunct distribution would point to a long-ago distribution that has since been altered in some way.

On a slightly related note, in the N.E. Wisconsin woods, right around the area where my land is, E. hemlock is easily one of the most common understory species. These sites nearly all tend towards mesic/wet-mesic conditions, and the hemlocks are just everywhere. It seems that if that our winters can get back to the more typical extreme coldness, we'll have E. hemlock as a strong forest component for a long time to come. If.

+oM

Best to get some pics and herbarium specimens to document it, and deposit them in the nearest large herbarium.

Resin

BTW, these hemlocks had definitely been infested w/adelgids & their foliage was rather scant. But, as I've noticed w/other eastern hemlocks nearby, there are presently no traces of the adelgids. What happened to the adelgids, I don't know.

Resin, yes, I'll see what I can do. If I just happened upon them randomly without even searching, I'd wager there are other localized populations nearby. I looked briefly for a nearby "mother tree", but saw only young (10-20 ft tall) understory trees of roughly the same age.

It sure would be great to be able to observe HWA being preyed upon by something.

In that link, -20 F. is listed as the (sustained) temperature needed to do in these bastards. Is that commonly agreed to? What's happening with HWA in places like Maine, Hew Hampshire, etc? It can get pretty cold in those states too.

+oM

I have a island/strand of these trees in NJ/zone 7 without adelgids. They look great and I do nothing for them. They are decades old and seemed to have survived without damage.

"BTW, these hemlocks had definitely been infested w/adelgids & their foliage was rather scant. But, as I've noticed w/other eastern hemlocks nearby, there are presently no traces of the adelgids. What happened to the adelgids, I don't know"

I'd suspect their white 'wool' has been blown off by Sandy, leaving them only visible as really tiny black dots on the needles. While I've (fortunately!) never seen HWA, that's what happens with its close relative Adelges cooleyi on Douglas-fir needles in winter here - they become nearly invisible in winter but reappear in spring as they produce more wool.

Resin

The lack of mature trees is troublesome. Was there a massive die-off or are these not native to the area and planted years back for some reason, probably by a scout troop or school group are the two questions that immediately come to mind. There are many virgin looking wild forests of eucalyptus continuously expanding in all regions of California, but I can guarantee that none of them make up their natural range no matter how ancient or genuine they seem! ;-)

ps. Speaking of pests, the best thing about gardening in California is no japanese beetles! My mother had a rosegarden in the epicenter of the infestation when I was a child, New Jersey. Literally 20 beetles would plop off and fly away from every rose you tapped. The numbers and damage were devastating. Now when my mom or I look at my garden of roses without a single hole in a single petal I shake my head in happy disbelief...

Trekking through a primeval mature wild Eucalyptus forest...in California!

floramakros, you may have burst my bubble. The spot had easy access 'cause there was a high school nearby -- I can't hike long or steep trails due to a pinched leg nerve. And I've seen where the Pennsylvania FS seeded some eastern larches on a clear-cut ridge near the PA/MD border. Maybe a call to the nearest FS office is in order. Not finding any parent tree(s) isn't a killer -- winged seeds can blow a long way, especially on windy ridges.

Resin, a massive adelgid infestation was clearly visible on my brother's hemlock yrs ago over the Christmas holidays (by then there would have been at least some very strong winter winds). Hemlocks (that had previous infestations) just north in PA had no adelgids in mid-Sept -- no significant winds that early. A trip up to the school/ridge next warm season should settle that question. But there has definitely been a respite from the adelgids at least on those big PA hemlocks and my brother's hemlock -- no trace of adelgids & visible recovery has occurred. I certainly don't think they've magically vanished forever tho...

"But there has definitely been a respite from the adelgids at least on those big PA hemlocks and my brother's hemlock -- no trace of adelgids & visible recovery has occurred"

That's good news! Probably means something has discovered they're edible. Perhaps a fungus or a bacerium? With any luck the adelgid numbers will settle at a permanent lower level. And hope they also like Balsam Fir Adelgid as well.

Resin

Only humans make mass plantings in certain spots at the same time, if Mother Nature was involved the ages of the trees would be much more staggered imho. I agree, FS is a great possibility as well. If a school or private charity did the plantings you'll probably never find out who did it unless you're very lucky.

Can't let that one pass uncontested, Flor. Nature routinely creates "mass-plantings" of single species. In my very own woods are large, more or less single-species stands of N. white cedar-AKA Thuja occidentalis-that all got their start following forest fires in the 1930s. And this is not at all a rare occurrence. In this case too, it is completely normal for there to be almost no other species able to compete in the incredibly closed canopy formed by these stands. Many other coniferous species do much the same thing. Also, ever see the area where a clearcut has been performed maybe five years earlier-in aspen country? You can't walk through it, so thick are the root sprout stems that are coming up, all of the same aspen clone. I could easily think of a dozen more cases of pretty much the same thing.

+oM

Tom I was only referring to the species in question; if you think that a group of exclusively 20 year old juvenile Carolina hemlocks next to a high school in Maryland is a naturally occuring population not planted by man you're entitled to your opinion, I beg to differ. When you hear hooves on the pavement outside your window think horses not zebras...

There have been several releases of Asian Adelgid predators, including at least one in PA. I'm too lazy to google it, however I doubt they would be having an impact yet statewide. I think it's normal to observe some variability in infection rates, and this doesn't imply that either the trees are fully resistant or that something is controlling them. They attack weak trees more quickly, for one thing.

Well then, with your further explanation, yes, it does seem likely that a troop of youths or some other group or individual is responsible for that occurrence. I was simply responding to what you wrote! I'll try harder to guess your intended context from here forth.

Now don't get angry-I'm not.

+oM

I'm not angry, I love playing amateur Sherlock Holmes, especially when it turns out I'm most likely correct! How in the world did I know about that high school? It's elementary... ;-)

Resin, there are a couple understory eastern hemlocks near me that I watch, and those too were infected & partly defoliated, but now have recovered.

One happy story is that gypsy moths have pretty much been eradicated in all areas that I can observe. The last ones I saw was 2004 when first here -- there were a couple on my sugar maple trunk, but dead or dying from a disgusting-looking fungal infection. Since then, none. The fungus was a purposely-introduced agent from the gypsy moth's original Asian range back in the '80s, but took quite a few yrs to get established.

Entomophaga maimaiga? That's one that has been worked with in some areas.

I have seen much the same thing with gypsy moth larvae-get a good, wet late spring and they get all screwed up. And likewise, while the gypsy moth was indeed a scourge here for the couple years that we were at its cutting edge of spread, it has now become just another insect pest-annoying and occasionally damaging in a small area, but nowhere near the widespread disaster that it might have seemed to be. Let's hope the HWA follows a similar pattern.

+oM

I hope the EDELGID fizzles out, I would like to still see it (eastern hemlock) in the wild if I can't grow one in my soil. As far as the Carolina being more northern, Global warming? I guess if the trees are really old that doesn't apply.

Last week my teenage son told me that a cable company had asked him to move our mower while I was at work.When I got home I found 4 of the six hemlocks of my road front grove cut to about 20 ft.tall.The circumference of these 4 trees range from 46-95 inches.Is there any possible way they might survive this mutilation?If not what is the value of such a beautiful tree?

Bad, but not much to do about it. Fortunately, hemlocks "take" to shearing well, so they'll survive & resprout, tho the original form is ruined.

Interesting observations. I've avoided both of the eastern native hemlocks due to HWA, & even thought of trying the Chinese hemlock, Tsuga chinensis.

This might give me a reason to try Eastern Hemlock again.