I find that the smaller C. pepo types of squash like acorn and sweet dumpling seem to have a lot of seeds for the size of the squash, and most of them are very productive.

Buttercup (Kobocha) varieties have good seeds. Pumpkins of the smaller sugar type are OK too. They mature earlier and seeds dry well. There are big winter type squashes too that mature even in cold weather of fall. Acorn squash, like butternut are also early to ripen. Starting the plants indoors about 3-4 weeks earlier in pots can help to get them going too. If your growing sunflowers, the black oil seeds are the best type to grow for birds. I have grown an odd type squash that I never saw listed anywhere. It came from a buttercup seed packet and is really big, gray color, egg shaped, with a large seed cavity. If all goes well, that squash and seed will be harvested for future years, and I will send off a few to a favorite seed supplier that deals in unusual types. I hope to try and see if some of the old seeds will still sprout this year as all previous attempts were lost to a woodchuck. I did see small ones develop as the same egg shape, but they never made it past baseball size due to the nasty woodchuck's destruction.

Here is a link that might be useful: kobacha squash seed

Ya probably don't have to eat all the flesh of the stuff you grow to get seeds for the birds. Pumpkin and squash flesh are great for the compost.

Do your birds like the seeds of summer squash and zucchini? Those plants can be very quick and prolific and give you some seeds to process in the summer long before the winter squash is ready for picking.

I agree that the small pumpkins and acorn squash will probably produce better (more fruit per vine) and hopefully give more seeds per fruit.

What other types of seeds are good for the birds? Would They like Okra? Okra is more of a long hot season crop but is easy to thread on a string to dry. The birds would probably enjoy making a mess by breaking up the dry pods if they like them.

If the squash show signs of powdery mildew, using a seaweed fertilizer diluted as directed and sprayed on the foliage can help.

I have been busy checking into the Kobochas, acorns etc in the multi-dozen catalogs I have received this spring. Thanks very much for the pointers! Saw one called a "delicata type" that looks to be very promising, also. Is there a site that lists the storing capabilities of this variety? I've found bits on other squash but not much on delicatas, so far (I recently had minor eye surgery so I work/type/search slow). Is there any difference in disease and insect problems between the types of winter squash?

I wish you good luck with growing out that squash seed, Ken! Sounds very interesting. Hope that woodchuck has moved on. Also re: sunflower seed - wild birds need extra oils and the black seeds are good in their diets, but they are low in other nutrients. Pet parrots are not nearly as active as their wild counterparts and can tend to get pudgy if allowed. For them most of the seed/nut foods in a well balanced diet are given for higher nutrients and energy foods, and only necessary quality fats (e.g.- white stripe sunflower, pumpkin, millet, safflower, sweet and hot peppers, as well as almonds and other nuts). There are some seed, beans and legumes which I purchase and offer the parrots (along with fruits/veggies) that, for one reason or other, are best only fresh, sprouted or cooked.. not in a daily feed-dry mix.

Parrots are extremely smart, fun, beautiful and very wasteful! They waste allot of food (it is 'hard-wired' in them to do this), shred newspaper and all the wood cuttings I give them. They produce what I think is a well balanced compost! I have a hard time putting perfectly good produce in the compost pile (uh...except..sometimes zucchini ;)

The birds do get zucchini when fresh and I freeze some for bread. I think Zucchini is pretty versatile fruit, but I don't think its' seed is particularly nutritious. Otherwise they'd grow out the gazillions of fruits that are started, and eat/roast/sell the seed instead of putting all the extras in compost piles ..LOL. Really though, I'll have to do some further checking into them but that is what I suspect. Also, I've not a clue as to whether birds like okra or is a good food for them, though I know some parrot owners in the south who I'll ask about it.

"If the squash show signs of powdery mildew, using a seaweed fertilizer diluted as directed and sprayed on the foliage can help."
That is very good info to have on file. Lots of squash bugs are the only pest we've had on the Zucchini over the years.

Been there, done that many times. Seaweed, and kelp will not stop the mildew damages. Its used mostly for foliar fertilizer. I have read that ascorbic acid solutions can help, but then again, every 3-5 days of sprying is required. Once a leaf gets a whitish coating, its dead within two days. Cucumber beetles carry the mildews. I use the Serenade product instead, as well yellow sticky traps with scent lures to catch the tiny yellow and black striped cucumber beetles. Traps are from Peacful Valley. The Serenade stops the mildew in its tracks. I also spray foliage in my garden with a Harpin (a protien) and water mixture and that tells plants that they are under stress and to increase their natural protection, which also increases vigor. Its a product called Messenger. The other pest is the vine borers. For them, Bt is injected into the stems near the ground, and out about 2-3 feet. This Bt strain is a friendly bacteria that will not affect any squash or cuke vines. I use an insulin syringe to inject it. The plants need only one treatment of the Bt usually. Sweet squashes are also affected by the same mildews, as they are all in the cucurbit family. That big squash I grew, had a lot of seeds inside.

That woodchuck had its picture taken after I trapped it in a Conabear trap. I used to have it on my page, but someone complained. I tried cages, but they were too small. That lethal trapping took a couple of months and many baits. The trap was big and could easily break a mans arm in half. The link below shows it as model 330, and you need 60 pound pull on two big springs to set it using a special tool. The woodchuck was buried near my blueberry bushes, made nice fertilizer! The woodchuck was big, about the size of a medium sized dog. It ate up all my sweet potatoes and even peppers and tomatoes. Chewed through limbs on my nectarine tree too. Nasty critter!!

{{gwi:881056}}

Here is a link that might be useful: Lethal traps for the tougher varmints

Isn't it too bad the animals don't know to leave us our fair share. It is frustrating. A couple of years ago or so, we had the cutest family of squirrels move to our property. I tried to convince them to move on by letting the dogs out of their yard to patrol, and irritate them. But ended up trapping and relocating the critters.. which is probably the least humane thing to do. Most or all probably end up dying from savvy competitors/starvation or predators in the new area(s).

Nice photo... nice squash!!

Thanks for the good production-protection facts. I've collected and stored for the future as needed. Hopefully I'll remember where I put 'em and not have to ask again. I've found a couple of squash seed from Territorial Seed that are at the top of my list right now - Bush Delicata and Gold Nugget - that are open pollinated types. It seems that with many garden foods, non-hybrids can be a bit more prone to problems. If not to difficult though, I'll be able to keep seed for future planting, which is a very good thing.

I think I saw here on Gardenweb that birds are crazy over hot pepper seeds. Have you considered them? I think they said that they like the peppers, but the seeds are the real delicacy. They are suppose to aid their digestive system. I know the birds around here just love some of the hot peppers I've grown.

bcskye, yes my parrots do like peppers - hot or sweet, almost as much as their human caretakers do. They get plenty here, especially fresh, and mostly the more nutritious fully mature reds. We grow quite a few each year, though my birds do not bother much with the small seed from them. THIS year we should have an especially good crop. A very generous person over at the pepper forum gave me a large amount of OP pepper seeds! 15-18 different kinds, with many seeds each!! I am so looking forward to checking out the different flavors that are produced.

pj,

Gardening for parrots --- what a neat concept!

I live in a farming area and in the fall it is pretty hard to pay anything at all for squash, which makes me wonder why I keep bothering to try to grow it in my lmited-space in-town garden beds!

I haven't grown delicatas, but have bought them from local farm stands often and they have quite a few advantages:
--small size (one of them serves DH and me as a side dish or a main dish if well-stuffed, whereas with butternuts and even acorns we're often overwhelmed)
--ease of cutting open (try some of those Turban squash and you'll appreciate this aspect all the more!)
---quite a high seed-to-flesh ratio (good for your purposes)

However, the flavour is quite mild (which is the garden-catalogue way of saying they don't have a lot of flavour); for human consumption I far prefer the kabocha or acorn types.

I second the recommendation for some small to medium pumpkin types --- read the descriptions carefully for days to maturity and vining habit. Sometimes smaller pumpkins have surprisingly long growing seasons, and there are some mid-sized ones (in the 10-to-30-lb range) with short seasons and more bushlike habits (so they don't take up the whole garden); there is presumably a strong incentive to develop easy-to-grow varieties for the Jack O Lantern market.

There's even a hybrid, called Snackjack, that has hull-less seeds, marketed for its production of snack seed for humans. You get about a half-cup of seeds from a two-pound snackjack pumpkin, which is quite a lot considering it's all seed meat, no hulls. Snackjack squash flesh tastes pretty good, too. But your parrots might find the lack of shell a downside --- less entertaining to eat!

A tip for storing winter squash: leave them on the vine at least a week after they seem ripe, so the skins harden. Then pick them and leave in the sun (pu in the garage or sthg if it rains) for a few more days. Then a quick dip into a very mild bleach-and-water solution, to kill off any bacteria. Finally, store them not touching one another (if one goes bad, this way the others won't catch it). They can keep most of the winter this way.

Good luck, and happy growing!

Zabby

I dip my squash in a chlorine bleach and water solution. It kills off surface mold spores before they get a chance to do damage to the flesh. Most squash also bruise easly, so the mention of keeping them seperate from each other is helpful too. My buttercup squash lasted about 4 months in my basement which goes down to about 50 degrees in winter.

The wild birds, especially the woodpeckers here get my home made suet cakes that have all hulless seeds, peanut butter and peanut hearts, as well as hydrogenated vegetable shortening that helps keep the suet from melting in warmer days. Because woodpeckers don't have any easy way to shell seeds, they push them into a small hole and peck at the hulls to get the meat inside. My suet doesn't have any shells, so its pure food for them. I make maybe 40 cakes a year, as they go through a lot in a single winter. They are kept frozen once made and molded. I like reusing the thin plastic trays they sell the suet cakes in.

I have changed my mind on growing the delicatas. Zabby, the photos I saw of them with their long, full seed cavities, is what drew my attention to them. Then I read on the 'Bush Delicata' and the "79 days" maturing time looked good in the Territorial catalog. However, Jung lists them at 100 days! That is just too long because our high altitude temps don't normally allow that amount of time. We work very hard most years for anything with '90 days' listed.

I'm still looking at pumpkins but, so far with the ones I'm seeing, the good flavored ones are either huge or have too long a maturing time or both. As said, size is not connected to maturing time.

I saw that Snackjack variety and may give it a try. My parrots try to hull most seed so I don't how much they'd waste, but maybe they would learn it is all edible. They do have some hulless sunflower in the formulated food part of their diet and I haven't seen them waste any of them. Also, I don't remember which catalog I saw them in right now, but it seems to me they were also a deeper, more orange color than the delicata type, which I prefer since it also usually means more nutrients too. I saw some buttercup or kabocha type called Sunshine, Sunspot or something like that that looked very good... BRIGHT orange-looking, which is some I'll probably go for.

The information on bleach-water rinse for squash is an important bit of care for storing these veggies. I did a quick gardenweb search on squash the other day and read as many of Kens and others past posts as my sore eyes would allow.. that info was put at the top of my squash file. Many thanks!

I'll have to look up recipes for home made suet when my eyes are working togetber more smoothly. We feed wild birds in the winter every year, but I'm sure the suet cakes would add better nutrition for them. Why do I always look for 'one more thing' to do??

Winter is the time to feed the things outside. I melt down (render) only beef suet. It can take a couple of hours for a large amount. Its done at a low temp on the stove in a big pot. Most will melt down to a clear liquid, and leave just small bits of brown cracklings. I don't use the crackings, but suppose they would work well for something. Many supermarkets sell beef suet, and if you don't find any, suggest that you ask them for some. Locally here there is a big steakhouse (Hill Top) that also has a butcher shop out back. I usually get the beef suet there for free. At times I also look for pork fat, but thats just for sausage making. Once the beef suet has been rendered, I add the hydrogenated vegetable shortening. Its the same stuff used my bakeries for that 'Crisco' powdered sugar frosting that has added water and fluffed up. I get the shortening from Kitchen Krafts. I also find cheap peanut butter and sometimes and add that too. It all melts down. The hulless seed mixes are at Lowes and Home Depot, and I also get sunflower chips there. The local Agway store has the peanut hearts, as well as the hulless seed mixes. These are all added to a point where there is almost no visable fat liquid showing in the pot once its all mixed together. Its mixed well and then spooned into those square plastic trays. One time, I had the rendered fat so hot it started to melt the plastic trays, so now I don't fill the trays until the pot just feels hot to the touch, but not at the 'ouch' point. Once they get filled, they are leveled off and then placed in the fridge where they solidify, then I take them out, and bag them for the freezer. I made a suet feeder from two 1 inch wide strips of deck wood. The kind that is 7/8 inch thick and weather resistant. I stapled some 1/4 inch holed metal screening to the sides and bottom (bent up like a U shape) with the wood as spacers on each side, and the holder and accomodate two seed cakes at one time by sliding them down between the two wire screens. If I over fill the trays, they have difficulty sliding into the holder. I'm getting good at it now, and the only time I buy the store bought ones is when I run out, or need more empty plastic trays.

One final squash note. Squash, like watermelons and such can be started in pots indoors a month before they get planted outside. I grew seedless melons last summer and they all were started in pots, including a few necessary cross pollinators, as seedless needs a regular one to produce fruits. My growing season usually lasts from June 1 to about Sept 1, before June, its sometimes risky for a frost, after Sept 1, the cold veggies continue like brussles sprouts and broccoli until we get a frost about mid to late September. My garden isn't huge, but because I started about 20 watermelon plants, I had quite a lot of the melons to give away. I also have a small 6x8 foot greenhouse and bring all my seedlings out there the last week of May to get used to outdoors. Thats called 'hardening' off, and works very well for things like tomatoes and peppers too.

Ken, thanks for the complete directions for making suet feeders. Sounds easy enough to put together and I will do some next fall/winter. I've been wanting to do that for years. I have to fix a better feeding spot for the wild birds. I have a beautiful new redwood feeder to find a place for this spring. A very good friend who has macular degeneration, painstakingly made it for us and was definitely one of the nicest surprises I have ever received. It is gorgeous, very special and needs the perfect spot to be placed. I'll place the suet cakes nearby too, so I'll have to see if I can design a decent 'CedarJungle Feeding Station'. Hope I can do it justice... I can't even seem to be able to put together a decent front of the house landscape, after trying for almost 12 years. Maybe I'll have better luck by doing a smaller project.

Thanks Zabby. I never thought to check out the Canadian catalogs. I have so many others but, makes sense with some of the shorter growing season up north.

Johnny's in Maine is also a good seed source

Here is a link that might be useful: Johnny's seeds

Have you considered Cheyenne Bush Pumpkins?

CHEYENNE BUSH PUMPKIN (Cucurbita pepo) 80-90 days - A terrific choice for those with a shorter growing season or limited growing space. This early variety delivers high yields of 7 pound fruits on smaller, bush vines.

Good luck with the parrots.

As a side note: I love to eat pumpkin seeds myself, hull and all! (you can never get too much fiber in your diet!)

You might be able to get a bit of a headstart with the pumpkins if you start them indoors and while starting them, use plastic over the area you intend to plant them (clear or red plastic, I believe are best) to warm the soil faster.

Then when you are ready to transplant the pumpkins (first set of true leaves) cut an "X" into the plastic, but leave it in place to continue to warm the soil for your pumpkins. They love the heat!!!

Do parrots also need grit in their diet? I do know that parakeets do, and without it can't digest foods well. Even wild birds need a bit of grit each day.

Just a thought - while I see you are looking for the proverbial "needle - haystack squash seed" - it may be worthless at this juncture.

But a single vote for Hubbard - I know - too large. But a tremendous effort of seeds it makes. True - too much meat, but possibly a good food source - if the flesh is baked and dehydrated for future use - eliminating the need for long storage of the veggie itself.

However, the Hubbard is a "keeper" as well - and in the hardened stage, will preserve well - as the contributed notes have suggested.

Lastly, humans like pumpkin waffles, pumkin bread, pumpkin soup, pumpkin cupcakes, (all made with Hubbard squash - because Hubbard squash tastes better than pumpkin any day).

I'll bet parrots would love dehydrated pumpkin flesh - but that's not for me to say - I guess.

Just my 2 c's.

Bejay

Check out Baker Creek seeds. They have a squash thats from Mexico thats grown especially for the seeds and the description says its very seedy.

I cant find my catalog right now or I would give you the name of it.

Problem is short growing season and fast maturity is necessary in Z5

Short growing season is definitely a problem here. That's what I get for wanting to live in the mountains. I hate playing tug-o-war with Mother Nature!

I will be doing a lot more info-searches on squash and pumpkins this weekend, and will include Cheyenne Bush Pumpkin. Thanks for the info, eaglesgarden.

Great idea re: clear plastic for a thermal boost for squash. We planned on doing that for peppers and tomatoes too. How long into the season do you leave the plastic on? Don't want to cook or starve all the earth worms I've worked so hard to coerced into staying. LOL .. With peppers and tomatoes, we thought we'd take it off when temps get around the mid/high 80's, then use mulch or half/three fourths finished compost. Normally, night temperatures don't go too far into the 60's at any time in the summer, but we get large crops of peppers anyway. A while back, we had a couple of years with many days in the 100's and nights in the 70's.. don't want those temps back!

Ken, parrots don't need grit in their diet. Actually parakeets don't either, although there are still some few people (no professional breeders) that debate this question. That is a hard one to get novice bird owners and some back-yard breeders, to accept ...because it is still given as fact by many pet stores - most who only sell birds/supplies not breed/raise them.

Wild birds: The gizzard is a very muscular organ, but because most of our native birds eat at least some seeds with the hull left on, the gizzard needs help. Particles of grit grind within the gizzard against the seed, to remove the hard outer coat so the embryo of the plant can be digested.

bejay9.. re hubbards: I'll have to check into maturity times. Friend of mine said that they are all her family used for pies but she is from another state. I haven't thought of dehydrating squash/pumpkin flesh. I will have to do some and see if the feathered family would like it. They are not very fond of dehydrated carrots - it's the texture, I think. Maybe that would be accepted better.

jmsimpson9, Baker Creek seeds lists a couple of 'seed producers' Pipian From Tuxpan and Silver Edge. Both sound very good, but they dont list days to maturity. More research to do..

I'm beginning to believe that I may end up with (too) many different Cucurbita - just to try. (Is anyone else surprised at how expensive some 'seed packets' have become? I haven't priced veggie seed from catalogs for a few years now.. c h o k e)

Try finding seedless watermelon seeds! I paid about $20+ for a pack of 12 seeds. The reason, each seedless do carry maybe one or two full sized seeds, so there is not a high rate. If you see high costs from a single seed seller, it might be some that are simply gouging the public. I still say that starting the squash seeds indoors in pots weeks before is well worth the extra effort. There are heavy white plastic fabric cloth that can be placed over plants should a light frost occur overnight. The heaviest of fabrics will protect down to about 26 degrees for just a few hours. Using clear plastic covers outdoors, with no ventilation can cook all plants! I use clear dome covers indoors while the seeds are germinating in the pots. Once the seedlings hit the clear plastc dome covers, they get removed and the heat mats are shut off.

pj,

I'm always surprised at how seed prices add up --- I put together what seems a piddly little order of a few packs at a few dollars each and BAM --- am astonished when it comes to $23! (Shipping fees are part of it --- I try to order from only one or two places each year, then a different one the next year, etc., so as to not pay minimum shipping fees too often.... )

Trading with other gardeners for small quantities of seed is a great way to lessen costs and also fun! I've mostly traded in Tomato seeds --- there's an active forum on GW where you can post your Wants and Haves.... maybe there is one for Squash?

Have met a lot of great gardeners across the continent that way, too.

If you want to try some small pumpkins, e-mail me and I'll be happy to send you some seeds............

Z

Thanks very much for the offer Zabby! I've sent you an e-mail.

In the future, I'll have to remember to take advantage of the exchange forums. I'm way to scatterbrained these days! Did a quick search there.

Decided to put orders for some squash varieties through Jungs and Johnny's... and ordered some other seed I'll be needing soon too, since most seed packaged for this year will still be good next year.

When looking for information on squash varieties, I found an interesting pdf. file from Purdue. 24 winter squash and pumpkin varieties were being evaluated for use (in Kentucky, I think). The charts listed the usual bits such as yield, weight and outside measurements but also the average measurements of seed cavities! Now, that's a place to start towards finding seeds for my feathered kids, as well as good eating for all of us! I'll try to put in a link, just in case anyone is interested in having a look.

Crystal

Carnival squash (C. pepo) average about 2 cups mashed squash per fruit and about 150 seeds. Very good tasting squash.

Thank you for that information. 'Carnival' is one on my consideration list!

Crystal

I have to disagree with Zabby on flavour - the delicata is my favourite squash! (And since the other members of my family don't share my love of squash, I like the small size) I'm in zone 4 (canadian - not sure what that would be US), and have no problems with growing delicata. I saw in the catalogue this year that it comes in bush form too. I'm going to try growing the seeds I have on a trellis this year...if that doesn't work, I will be investing in the bush type. They do take quite a bit of space!

I think the growing zone numbers refer to all of north America, so zone 4 is a later planting zone and earlier harvest time. Typically less than 90 days.

sonj7, hey, just 'cos we're both Canadian doesn't mean we have to have the same taste in squash! And I do like & eat delicatas sometimes --- they are tasty enough, in their mild way, and SO darned conveniently sized, as you point out. Also easier to cut than many.

The gardening zone map isn't a joint North American-wide project, but the criteria in Canada and the U.S. are very similar --- the Canadian ones were re-done not that many years ago and now they're even closer, though not, I think, identical.

Z