I'm not sure we can say curds are unsafe so much as untested or unverified. I wish someone with a food science background could cite us some studies. I've seen some arguments that the high level of acidity inhibits the growth of bacteria but I don't have the background or data to assess their accuracy.

It's a common assumption that mayonnaise is the "culprit" when potato salad served outdoors makes people sick, but it's more likely to be the eggs. If anything, mayonnaise is a preservative due to the acid.

That doesn't mean I plan to leave either curds or mayonnaise out at room temperature, nor am I planning to can curds.

It's always interesting to see differences in preserving conventions. That's a very interesting link, Dave. I'm definitely going to visit again. Thanks for sharing it.

Maybe we could compile an international list of preserving forums and websites. I've seen some intriguing Australian ones.

Carol

Just like how you go to Mexico and they have eggs for sale on shelves rather than fridge section or all the meat is just open on ice for your picking.

I know people that keep ketchup and mayo in the pantry opened they say its safe and they don't like it cold.

Why is mayonaisse acid? I thought it was basically an emulsion of eggs and oil. (Don't care for it myself, so have never investigated its ingredients very closely).

Lemon juice and/or vinegar is in it.

Dave

Vinegars and oil cannot mix by themselves so an 'emulsifier' must be added. That is why eggs are used. Commercial mayo has nitrogen pumped into the product when its jarred. Its totally unsafe to home can! The use of flavored vinegars and oils offer more taste options, and the regular mayo calls for a little dry mustard powder, plus some salt. The reduced fat types usually have thickeners like xantham gum or even lecithin added. Mayo can be easily made in a blender and takes just a few seconds once the oil is added as the last step. The use of oilive oil is great too. Refrigeration for for up to about 2 weeks is fine.

The boiling water bath seems to be a peculiarly American thing to do when preserving things like jams, pickles and the like. And it's also a completely unnecessary thing to do for such things.

If you've got a something that has been thoroughly cooked - like a jam, or a chutney - and you spoon it while boiling hot into a jar, and cover the jar immediately, as the mixture cools, a vacuum is formed inside the jar in the teensy space between the rim and the lid. This pulls the lid down, forming a hermetic seal. The product inside is safe for a long, long time (years, even), unrefrigerated. Note: we don't leave any headspace, but fill the jars right to the brim.

No special jars are needed. I use recycled jars, and prefer the ones with the metal lids that have a little bubble on them. When sealed, the bubble is down. Once the seal is broken, the bubble pops up.

However, if the product isn't fully cooked, such as if you're preserving fresh fruit in syrup, the heat of a BWB is required to form that hermetic seal. This is what Americans call 'canning' and what we Australians call 'bottling' or 'preserving'. Special jars and special seals are required.

I've made countless jars of things like lemon curd. This is something that is partially cooked - ie it doesn't come to the boil. So while a strong seal is formed when it's bottled, it isn't a hermetic seal, so the contents don't keep for long. About a month in the fridge is the maximum recommended time. However, mine has never lasted more than a week - it gets eaten!

We advocate processing because the "open kettle " doesn't create as strong of a seal. It is a weaker, surface seal.
Plus, here in the states we have a high rate of molds, yeasts, and in the case of botulism in low acid foods, a high rate of botulism spores in some areas. So, we stress that processing is totally necessary for all foods. Otherwise we feel that nothing at all has been done to preserve that food on the shelf.
These methods have been tested in our labs at the universities.
As for homemade mayo, the shelf life in the fridge is 2 or 3 days, not 2 weeks. I do agree, though, that what is done commercially is not the same as we can do at home.

I have to pipe up having just read this, that it came as a real supprise to me that all these methods where needed, I still have some raw, fermented in alcohol, mincemeat (sterile the jars)in my pantry which is 6 months old and regularly used it for up to 3 years old, it tastes better as it gets older, I also keep christmas pud for a year without any special treatment, as that just how its supposed to be made, the year before, however, I realised that heat and humidity may have a different effect here so I have invested in a Pressure Canner, the Presto 23 qrt, which can alledgedly be used as a water bath, I will continue with my nasty UK ways with pickled onions but the mincemeat I will look for ways to pressure can it (it doesn't actually contain meat (except suet haha!!!) I had to buy real suet this year as veg suet isn't avaliable as far as I can tell in the States) as mincemeat is always cooked anyway before consumption, so its not going to hurt to try and find a receipy, and if I cann't well I will continue.
Lemon curd and orange curd contain eggs but it is actually cooked in, it wouldn't set otherwise, and once opened we always keep it in the fridge, fresh mayo is a different ball game.
what do you do about pickled eggs? or don't you eat them?
I am interested in the real statistics so I did a couple of searches,
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/93/2/93
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/501859
I find it scary that E coli 153 H7 has killed 488 people in 8 years judging by the averages and 959 deaths due to botulism in 60 years until 1969 in the US, that said I am sure a great deal of under reporting was done, or the illness not recognised at the time of death, but still, a lot of these e coli cases are due to large food producers, not ma and pa, making some preserves of a farmer market, or home use, is it a case of money talks? and does not have the same standards as we do?
It is also appears that botulism spores seem not to be common in the UK and Republic of Ireland as between 2003 - 2008 there have only been 5 cases of this and 3 of these involved Polish nationals eating meat from home,
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/501859

we also do not have quite the same home preverving history, as many people where happy to give up after rationing finished in the 1950's for us and started in 1940 (not me personally) so could not wait to buy food preserved, and we also enjoy a long, long season of temporate weather! so stuff isn't kept as long.
Oh stuff it! I've read enough the mincemeat will investigate alcohol preserving more, and that and the pudding are out, I will freeze this year, and give up mass produced meat which quite frankly scares me more! you must have a whole lot of spore shaking on down! would be interested to know the state by state breakdown of the risks, so I could make a more informed choice but not found one?
I was a nurse Occupational Health UK not US which covers epidemiology which is why I have writen an essay...badly! still I hope you won't mark me??? :)
None of what I have written above is in a professional capacity and should be taken with a big pinch of salt and you should follow any offical guidance available (cover a$$ clause)

Here is a link that might be useful: botulism USA

US made commercial mincemeat has no meat, or suet. Its apple raisins, spices and sugar, as well as some rum or brandy flavor, but usually no alcohol as that will boil off during processing. Veg suet? whats that?? Suet from a veggie would be something like soybean oil or another vegetable oil. There has been a lengthy discussion here about home canning pickled eggs. Some of the comments you covered have already been discussed in great length here. We try to offer safe canning methods and if people who live in other parts of world feel they can can make 100% safe canning, without regards to density and acidity, so be it. Things we 'recommend' here are for home canners who would be concerned about poisoning their family, and because food poisonong and botulism cases are sometimes never reported, its extemely difficult to come up with any kind of accurate number. A few years ago, even a commercially canned mushroom had botulism and the brand and lots were taken off store shelves. A few years back, even ice cream had salmonella and a few people died. They traced that back to a truck carrying eggs prior to filling the truck with cream. The eggs introduced the salmonella and the milk made it grow.

ksrogers veg suet, have a packet in front of me, ingredients veg oils 59% wheat flour, stabilisers, pectin.

I am a maverick, thats why I looked up my own information, and I do feel that in the USA the bolulium spores must be more prevalent, so I am investing in the correct equipment and have studied the UDSA site and brought (not the BBB but by ball? book? can''t remember the name.)
the fact bonifide companies have had bolulism in their food stuffs here, just goes to that it must be common, I love epidemiology its so interesting and I am on the side of the safe canners in many aspects which is why I am going to look for alternative recipies.
The alcohol in mincemeat and Christmas Pud is for preservation, not effect, as it is always cooked before consumption.
we also don't have the same culture of litigation in the UK, although some try! my 2 aunts are setting up in business this year making preserves and pickles I have been sending the UDSA guidence to them, they are also doing food hygine courses, they are pissed with me, as in the planning stages they had me down as accountant and ideas lady, and then I moved to the US! still they are doing a great job themselves.

Never seen that kind of suet, must be made by some small company. Attempting to make soething like that at home would be dangerous due to the oils and flour. Stabilizers? Are they to keep it thick, prevent food poison, or just some kind of additive to give it a stable texture..

"Never seen that kind of suet, must be made by some small company. Attempting to make something like that at home would be dangerous due to the oils and flour. Stabilizers? Are they to keep it thick, prevent food poison, or just some kind of additive to give it a stable texture.. "
LOL, sorry ksrogers you have given me lot of good advice and we have some interesting conversations but Atora, small company? had you had forgotten I am from the UK?
I alway use Atora light, as my mum did cos dad was diabetic, which is the veggie stuff.
quote from Atora site
"He subsequently sold his engraving business and in 1893 founded the Atora suet making factory in Openshaw, Manchester, manufacturing ready shredded suet - one of the first 'convenience' food products available. It was the largest factory of its kind in the world."

Here is a link that might be useful: atora until I moved here never realised what a pain suet was!

It must be that the UK is in some world revolving around Harry Potter. I have never heard of that company big or small. Bad canning practices can happen anywhere in the world, no matter where its done. Laugh all you want, its not really THAT funny to realize that food safety practices don't really change from one country to another. I would place the UK in the zone of my grandmothers way to home can, fill the jars and cap them, and then store them. Today, its hard enough to prevent issues of food poisoning, let alone ignoring the safety of others when home canned products are not done using a well tested and safe method.

I use suet, from beef fat, its melted down, hulless bird seeds are mixed into it and its used as bird food for the winters. I would never use beef suet for any home canning of any kind.

in my search outside of the garden web forum on pressure canning I found out something interesting!
being the owner of a brand spanking new pressure canner/pressure cooker/water bath (presto 23 Qt) I am keen to try it out, did a dummy run for the pressure canner, so I know what to expect when doing it for real, glad I did I think I understand how it works now.
but in the absence of having enough stuff to can at the moment I decided to pressure cook, none of the recipies inspired me in the Presto book, but inspiration struck! my mums cook books! printed in 1967 UK, browsing through it I found that even back then they advicated pressure canning and water baths! I am sure the times and pressures are way out for modern times, but interesting that both books had this info!

The UK book... If you don't mind.... What is the name of it? Sounds awesome!
THanks!

good housekeeping (UK edition) 1967 white cover
and cookery in colour 1966 Marguerite Patten, blue cover, as I said I bet these instructions are well out of date and both books only contain a small section in each water bath, pressure "bottling" as we call it and pressure cooking, there is also a section on canning as in "cans" but can't remember which book or if both books!