No it is not considered safe and hasn't been considered safe since the early to mid-70s when all the research on proper canning methods for tomatoes began and the new extra acidification requirements were added..

Even before then, well back into the 1940's Ball's canning instructions required BWB processing for canned tomatoes as any review of an old book will prove. Even back then inversion (what they are doing) was only considered safe for high acid fruits, jams or jellies.

Those who think you are "being silly" are taking unnecessary risks and those risks are well documented and supported by research. But that is their choice if they wish. You have to determine your own level of risk/comfort.

Cooking, so-called "open-kettle canning" as they are doing does not kill botulism spores nor does it kill many of the modern fungus and bacteria such as listeria. Seals those un-killed bacteria and fungus into a vacuum, and anaerobic environment such as canning does and you provide them the ideal environment in which to grow and reproduce.

Some folks will always remain convinced that their methods are fine since "no one has died or gotten sick yet". But for most of us that isn't good enough reason to stick with old, out-dated methods.

The choice is yours.

Dave

Per NCHFP FAQs:

Why is open kettle canning not recommended?

In open kettle canning, food is cooked in an ordinary kettle, then packed into hot jars and sealed without processing. The temperatures obtained in open kettle canning are not high enough to destroy all spoilage and food poisoning organisms that may be in the food. Also, microorganisms can enter the food when it is transferred from the kettle to jar and cause spoilage.

You may be interested in Ball's webcast about dispelling canning "myths" - they specifically mention inversion, oven canning, and others in the email notification. You can ask questions too via chat. Maybe you can get your sister to watch?

Here is a link that might be useful: Ball webcast July 15 noon Pacific

Thank you for responding! I did not know the method was called inversion, maybe that was why I couldn't find their method when I searched.

Dave, that is exactly what they say, this is the way their grandmother did it and no one has ever gotten sick!

Asjmama, I HAVE shown some of them my books and pointed them to the sites for Food Preservation.

They are convinced that cooking the tomatoes 'down' kills all bacteria. So many people do this in my rural area, if you one day read about an entire county that were wiped out by kettle canning it will be here lol.

I told them we also cooked and left it on the table covered by a table cloth and ate again that night. I don't remember anyone getting sick then either, but that doesn't mean it was safe and I now know better.

These people are so stubborn and set in their ways I'm surprised they don't use horse and buggies.

Hubby and I had food poisoning from ribs BBQ'd and left under a warming light for a long time (we didn't know it) we were so sick and I never want to go through that again. Or kill one of my dinner guest lol!!!!

Thanks again, BWB may take longer than kettle cooking and inversion, but that's the way for me.

I know, some of my family looks at me weird when I start packing up food at family gatherings within 1.5 - 2 hours of putting it out (not food that's in crockpots that are kept plugged in) and putting it in fridge or coolers. They're used to leaving macaroni salads, mac N cheese, lasagne, meats, fruit salad etc. out in the pans on the table and letting people pick all afternoon.

I have relatives I love but I won't eat at their house, if I leave a dish there I wash it when I get it back even if it looks clean b/c they use the same sponge or rag for washing dishes and cleaning counters - even wiping spills on floors I'm afraid - and I don't ever see them change it - some don't even use soap just hot water and the sponge. And these are college-educated professionals (obviously not in medical field)!

There's a program on PBS around here that's called A Chef's Life. About a restaurant and the folks that run it. They made a show about tomatoes and went to someone's house for her to show how they used to (and apparently still do) can tomatoes. It was this open kettle method. Needless to say, the restaurant owner was amazed and thought it was great to see how it was supposed to be done. The woman that did the canning was older and has probably been doing it this way for 60 years.

There was no disclaimer about how this was an outdated method or any effort to show how to correctly do it. I feel sorry for people that watch that show and don't know any better that will try it and have issues as a result.

A few years ago I remember watching a TV show called "French Food At Home" on The Cooking Channel. The host, Laura Caulder, canned whole tomatoes and made it look so easy (which is why it's stuck with me all this time) but it's a very, very wrong method.

I just looked up the recipe to be sure I was remembering correctly and it calls for taking whole tomatoes and packing them raw into quart jars with some spices and a slice or two of raw onion. Put on the lids and put the jars into a BWB, cover with water, and weight the jars down so they don't float. Simmer for 1.5 hours until the tomatoes collapse and let the jars cool in the water before removing. The final step says the jars will only look half full when done.

There are so many things that are wrong with this recipe. It's just ridiculous.

Rodney

Yeah unfortunately there are so many downright dangerous instructions floating around from family to family, generation to generation. And the internet has only made the problem worse in some ways as it allows from these faulty methods to be spread even faster.

Dave

"The final step says the jars will only look half full when done."

I remember those! Mama BWC the tomatoes!

As said above, no one ever got sick. But one thing that sticks in my mind, the tomatoes that we grew were much more acidic than the average tomatoes that we grow now.

Marion and Rutgers and the others that I can't remember seemed to have a lot more acid back in the 60's to 80's or is that just my imagination? Or was it the red clay soil that they were grown in? I don't have red clay unless I did really deep.

When we turned our garden the soil was a deep red and would get rock hard when it dried out.

I do tend to be on the safe side now, I add lemon juice and pressure can. I don't like frozen tomatoes, they just don't have the flavor that canned do.

or is that just my imagination?

In part. For one your taste buds were much younger then. :)

Seriously, it was the research in the early 70s that discovered that ALL tomato varieties are actually borderline low acid and that all the pHs of the fruits fall into a very narrow range of 4.4-4.9. So all the oldtime claims some canners still make that "they only grow the acid ones so don't need added acid or processing" doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

When added to that the fact that soil pH can affect fruit pH and that pH has been proven to rise during shelf storage one can see how quickly they can slide into the risky range.

Things change and smart people change with the times and new info. Stubborness like the OP has encountered really has no justification.

Dave

So, nobody mentioned HOW you can can tomato sauce using BWB ?
Number 2: what is the max safe pH, canning like tomato sauce by BWB method ? (no additives, just tomatoes) Obviously, in this method temperature will be 212F max (at sea level and lower at higher altitudes) How do you kill all those dangerous killer bacteria?

So, nobody mentioned HOW you can can tomato sauce using BWB ?

No, first because the discussion is about canning tomatoes, not sauce. Second, because the how-to instructions are readily available both online at NCHFP and in the Ball canning books.

Maximum safe pH of a finished product is 4.6 and 4.2 is preferred for long term shelf stability.

How do you kill or neutralize potentially harmful bacteria, molds, and fungus spores? With acidification and/or pressure canning.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: NCHFP - How to can tomatoes and tomato products

Thanks for the link.

I was/am just interested in making PLAIN tomato sauce , nothing in it. I add other stuff when I open and make the kind of sauce that I want. So this given instruction call for 2 TBS of lemon juice per quart ( = 1/2 cup per gallon). It does not make any distinction for the tomato type ! That is fine with me. Can we substitute vinegar ?

But with BWB, still the all the harmfull bacteria are not destroyed. So the acidic environment just prevents them from growing/multiplying.

Yes you can sub vinegar for the bottled lemon juice as the NCHFP instructions say.

Four tablespoons of a 5 percent acidity vinegar per quart may be used instead of lemon juice or citric acid. However, vinegar may cause undesirable flavor changes.

But it requires double the amount. Bottled lemon juice is more acidic than vinegar.

Using citric acid - available wherever canning supplies are sold - is preferred by most.

Dave

Here is a link that might be useful: Tomato Acidification Instructions