I agree. also a group of nurseries have begun calling themself Master Gardener - I always say volunteer and that we don't get paid just to set the record straight.

Penny

The name Master Gardener is not copywrited and can be used by anyone who wishes. When used by a university trained Master Gardener the university should be identified. In California that would be "UC Master Gardener". If used with this identifier you better be sure an approved project is involved. Al

I had no idea until recently that there was a problem with the name. I like the name and I worked hard to be able to use it. I will keep on working hard in order to keep it. Those few who managed to get through the program without developing the appropriate skills won't stay in the program for long because it does require continuing work. All of the long time members I have met are well qualified to hold the title. If the title had been something like "Amateurs pretending to be experts ", I would not have been interested. What exactly do you find offensive about the title? Sandy

Sandy, Where in my post do I say or imply I find the term offensive?

I agree that the term MG can be misleading to anyone who isn't familiar with the program and what it's all about. I'm also a bit self-conscious about not wanting to seem like I'm making any claims to be an expert when I say I'm a MG. I usually just say I've been thru the MG program and do volunteer work.
Jo

Way back when, my MG class discussed this same issue.

We were told we were master 'gardeners.'

Not Master Landscape Designers.
Not Master Horticuturalists.
Not Master Entomologists.
Not Master Nurseryman.
Not Master Plant Pathologist.

Being a 'master' of anything doesn't mean you know everything there is to know in the field.

'Masters' in any craft will continue to seek knowledge, experiment, and help others in their given area.

As someone stated previously, I studied hard, worked hard, and put in a lot of hours of classtime, field-time, etc.
And, still continue to do so.

The only 'negative' I have ever heard expressed regarding the term 'Master Gardener" was from professionals in the garden industry.

When asked about something I am not familiar with, I will be the first to admit I don't know...but will be glad to try to help you find your answer.

I hold up my head and wear my "Master Gardener" badge proudly.
I know what I did and continue to do to have the honor to do so.

Unfortunately, Wandaredhead, the term "Master" when applied to any type of profession does connote a high degree of expertise. While I agree that no one, regardless of title, knows all there is to know about a particular subject, specially one as broad as 'gardening', the current name does cause considerable confusion with the general public. They often expect something more than a faciliation towards an answer they have about a specifc gardening problem - they DO think they are consulting with experts.

As a consultant and sometimes instructor to the local MG program (and this is where the whole ball of wax started, originally), I have been involved in countless discussions about the feasability of a name change and exactly what name might be suitable. The primary motivation for such a change is to clarify the role of the MG program in the public's view. To date, none have been settled on and how widespread that name change may be, once it does come about, is still being negotiated.

As long as you don't pretend to be something you are not, don't BS the the public with knowledge you don't possess (and I have seen plenty of that) and don't use the title to promote a business or professional affiliation, then there is no reason why you cannot proudly call yourself a "master gardener" and provide the information and assistance you were trained for.

Many people think you must be a graduate of the university. After I explain this is not a requirement,
I try to explain that the program teachs us mainly where to find information to answer garden questions. So we really are Master Information Finders or MIF for short.

Penny

I took the course some 15 years ago.
The "Master" then was refered to as a student(aka child) learning from an expert.
Like Mr. Joseph Elders teaching Master Joey Elders, Jr.
But I know they don't refer to it like that here anymore.......cheryl

Its true that before i joined the program, i always thought Master Gardener was a very advanced level of knowledge... and for some reason i assumed it was something from england! I was a bit disappointed to learn that no special background was required to take the course and earn the title. Our class consisted of life long gardeners as well as people who had never gardened.

To be honest, my ego likes the title, but i always explain to people what it means, that it is a volunteer program and that we have been trained to find answers to gardening questions.

Here in Pennsylvania, I have not experienced any misconceptions about "Old World Masters" or degrees or anything like that.

They have simply "Mastered" the gardening classes taught by the County Horticultural Agent, and are volunteers to provide answers to common gardening questions.

As far as confusing "Master Gardener" with a degree, I have a "Masters Degree in Horticulture" from Penn State and I can't for the life of me see how anyone could confuse "Master Gardener" with "Masters Degree in Horticulture", or "Bachelor's Degree in Turf Management". Considering one is a hobby and the other a profession, basic common sense should apply; unless y'all have Masters Degrees in stamp collecting. (grin)

I think sometimes we fail to realize just how much we have learned as MGs. I know that there is no connection between being a Master Gardener and being a true expert in horticulture, but the education we receive in class and in helping our clients makes us far more knowledgeable than the average home gardener and that's who we are supposed to be helping. The trouble I've seen MGs have has always been with professionals that look to us for quick answers to technical questions. Most people in the industry know what we are and respect us for what we do, but there are always a few who seem to look down on us and think we're "putting on airs" because of our name.

I'm sure there have been MGs who have given bad information or left the impression that we are "know-it-alls" but the vast majority that I've met are honestly trying to help people with their everyday gardening questions and wouldn't dream of pretending to be anything but what they are. If this is not the case in other areas, then perhaps the education was not complete. It was made very clear from the beginning what was expected of us and what we were to do if we weren't CONFIDENT of an answer to a question. And there are some areas where we are not supposed to give answers due to legal liability issues and these questions are always referred to an agent. Along with that, ALL recommendations for chemical pest control have to come directly from our VA Tech Pest Management Guide. New MGs are mentored every step of the way by experienced volunteers and are not turned loose on their own until they have exhibited a thorough understanding of this policy.

To be honest, I was very worried when I signed up for the course because I knew that I was so far from being a "master" gardener that I could never attain that title in the short amount of time we were in classes. I don't know whether it's the appropriate name for our group or not, but it's the name we have and it's widely known among the public we serve. If they misunderstand who we are, then it's up to us to let them know. However, most don't care how we got the title or what it means. They just want to know how to grow a reasonably weed-free lawn or why their petunias are dieing. Those things we can usually answer.

Gardener Sandy, Yours is a great answer. Even though I may catch a little flack for even bringing up the topic of our name maybe it is best if we discuss it here so we will know how to respond to the public and to gardening professionals on this topic. As I have said, I have been a Master Gardener for 25 years and am proud of the title and I don't think the name will be changed - there's too many tee shirts and coffee mugs out there that are already imprinted with the Master Gardener name,
(Well, that's one reason) plus, I really like the sound of it. The first thing I say on my web site is that I am a Master Gardener.

The only time I'm offended by the term is when Jerry Baker uses it. I only wish there were some method of recourse to separate that idjit from ever using it again. He is one of those folks that give Master Gardeners a bad name in the public's eyes.

The public does have a perception of the amount of expertise that someone who is a Master Gardener must possess. They're sure it's at least university level training. Heck, about a third of my MG class kinda thought the same thing until the CA explained more about what kinds of things they'd be taught. That had 3 folks drop right there.

The American Rose Society calls their program of consulting experts Consulting Rosarians. I kinda like the term Consulting Gardener as it's more descriptive of what we do. They've also instituted a Master Consulting Rosarian program for folks who've been CR's for a long time and shown special knowledge or given special service. That's kinda what's missing in the MG program to some extent. A Master Master Gardener program, say for MG's who've stuck with it for 3 or more years and want more in depth training.

Jerry Baker does have the copyright to the term Master GArdener, according to my info. mkp

Not to be catty but that is not the case! He's more a folk gardener.

Penny

Don't you mean quack?

Check out the little symbol by his trademark or whatever it is. And that is what we are told by our state coordinator at CO State University. And why he has us call ourselves CSU Master Gardeners. mkp

Hey Eddie, the tone of your post was perhaps more negative than you realize. Your implication that the title is both undeserved and misleading is negative in the extreme. If you don't want the title, why did you go into the program? I've been a gardener for about 35 years or so and in that time I have had many people (who never heard of the program) teach me from their experiences. Many of the things they showed me have changed and I have been learning about those changes in MGs so my knowledge is as up to date as I can make it. I try to master my subject so I may teach others. A master is one who seeks knowledge of a subject not someone who has learned all there is to know. In my MG program we don't need to get defensive when we don't know an answer. We go looking for the answer. I have made an effort to learn enough about Biotech ( for example)so I can explain it to adults or children and help them try it themselves. Ditto for propagation methods, basic botany, greenroofs, flower arrangement, ponds and water gardens and a number of other subjects. However I don't have a problem with asking another MG about their favorite subject or telling non-MGs that my knowledge of a subject is basic. I can always recommend a publication or request someone more knowledgable deal with the situation or explain enough to allow me to answer it. If a Master does not continue his search for knowledge the student will outshine the master. Sorry this doesn't flow as it should but it is late and I'm trying to hurry. Sandy

Good answer, Sandy.

Often this subject would come up periodically in the Professional Forum with lots of resentment by those in the business against MG's. One poster wanted to bombard the local Ag Agent with emails to change the name! (Methinks somebody needed to get a life!).

What I found most strange was the fact that a lot of MG's themselves (or at least they said they were MG's) seemed to be uncomfortable with the name. I never even thought about it until it came up here on the GW. I have no problem with the title MG and consider myself a knowledgable gardener. (Must be my PA Dutch genes! :^) Do I know everything about gardening? Of course not. Nobody does. However, I do have areas of expertise in gardening as do all of the local MG's.

Hopefully, this will be the end of the discussion, and we can get back to work doing what we love - namely, volunteering in our community and hopefully passing a love of gardening to others.

Sleeplessinftwayne, I went back and read my original post and you are correct, it does seem a bit negative although I believe factual. I kind of wish I had not brought the topic up or waited and let it come up in someone else's post but it's sort of like toothpaste out of the tube - it's hard to put it back. Allowing for freedom of speech and being courterous to one another I hope this topic does not get out of hand. I hope blueheron is right about ending the discussion and getting back to gardening.

Not being a Master gardener I only just caught this and let me say that, to those in the organization it means one thing and to those not in the organization it means something else, hence the confusion. Please don't think that I am denigrating all you people who give your time and expertise for free, because I am not, though it may be worth noting that there is no similar, recognised, appellation for someone who works in the field which may be why you come across resentment from that quarter.

Of course there are names for those who work in the field - horticulturist, landscape designer, botanist, plant physiologist, hybridizer, agronomist, farmer, vegetable grower, on and on ad infinitum.

There are many areas of expertise for the professional which is why there are different titles, not one.

INKognito makes a very valid point. There is a much different perception of the terminology from those outside of the organization, specially from the general public. I can't tell you how many times customers have come into the nursery looking for a "master gardener" to answer plant ID questions, diagnose pests and diseases, even to design or maintain their gardens. When they are informed that the Master Gardeners are only onsite selected days during the growing season but there are Certified Professional Horticulturists (or licensed professional landscape designers, etc.) on staff to answer any of their questions at any time of the year, it is a tough sell to convince them that these folks are equally (if not more) qualified to answer their questions or provide suggestions. They simply find the term confusing and unless familiar with the program themselves, attribute a far greater degree of expertise to holders of that designation than the program intended. It IS a misnomer.

And while there are indeed many areas of expertise or specialization for the professional, there is still no uniform title which applies to the bulk of those who toil in this field - what blueheron has listed are job titles or descriptions, not a proficiency designation. The negativity you have seen expressed by professionals with the title of Master Gardener is in some sense justified. It is pretty hard not to be a bit upset when a fair percentage of the public believes, despite the number of degrees, certifications, years of experience or job titles you may hold, that you are not quite up to snuff with someone else who has earned the title of "Master Gardener". And before the fur flies, it is not the participants or the program that is the cause of the resentment, merely an rather unfortunate choice of name from the outset and the public's lack of understanding of what it entails.

gardengal, Yours is the best response yet - logical and true. I don't have a problem with the Master Gardener title, in fact. I am extremely proud to call myself one but as you and I have both said, it is a matter of public perception. Thanks for your contribution to this discussion.

California has a Certified Nursery Professional designation which has much tougher requirements than "Master Gardeners". As a Master Gardener I respect this more stringent testing, education, and required experience. I think all of us should remember Master Gardeners are not professional nursery persons but volunteers dedicated to assisting "non professional" gardeners with their chosen "hobby". Al

Eddie, thanks for this discussion. I've learned a lot hearing from the other side on this issue.

Maybe the problem is in PR. Some in the public seem to misunderstand who MGs are and apparently don't have any way to judge the differences between us and professionals. I'm sorry that there is a misconception about our "expertise" and that people in the industry are feeling shortchanged by the public because of it.

But a couple of questions come to mind in light of all this. If the industry feels so strongly against MGs, why do they call on us to work the clinics at so many nurseries and garden centers? In our area, there are numerous clinics throughout the growing season and the MGs who work them are in high demand. Also, why do they call us for answers to questions so often? When I work the help line, it's a rare day that I don't get at least one call from a professional with a question. Maybe it's a regional thing, but here the work we do seems to be appreciated by both the public and the profession.

Very good point GardenSandy, because we take the time to research answers and our services are free we will always be much in demand and appreciated.
I do catch a little flack for mentioning this topic (the name) but it would have cropped up sooner or later and we had better be prepared to deal with it (or ignore it).

Eddie, this is my fifth year as a Master Gardener and I hadn't heard any complaints about the name until I started reading GW earlier this year. Maybe I'm just too naive or something, but my experience so far has almost all been positive. (Or maybe folks just don't want to complain to my face! LOL) We do a survey every year and call back on many people who have called us for help to see if we satisfied the client's need. We're looking for ways to improve what we do or areas where we have fallen short. The response is always very positive. I hope I'm not wearing rose colored glasses when I look at the program, but to me (at least in our area) the MGs do a great job and really don't seem to have rubbed the professionals the wrong way. When I go to the office next week, I'm going to ask about the problem and see if it has come up here. I'll let you know what I hear.

Gardener Sandy, the MG clinics in my area are sponsored by nurseries and garden centers to help support the program. And to lighten the load on the nursery personnel themselves during the busy season when nursery sales are paramount and answering questions (which we do anyway) can take up a lot of time and sales staff. 8 weekend MG clinics during the course of the year is not what I'd consider a huge demand in a nursery that operates a full 12 months.

And as for professionals calling for answers, there are "professionals" and then there are professionals. Training, education and experience can vary widely in this industry and I have no doubt there are scores of landscapers out there that are self-taught and are grateful for a resource such as the MG hotline to get answers to specific questions they are not familiar with. FWIW, I also get professionals in my nursery asking for plant ID's and disease or pest diagnoses as well.

Don't be defensive - it is a valuable program and MG's offer a worthwhile service but based on my many years of experience in both the nursery industry, the landscape profession and with the MG program, I'd have to say there is very much a mixed perception of the role of the master gardeners by the general public. At least in my area, and this is where the program started initially - if the confusion exists here where the program has been established for 30+ years, it must also exist elsewhere.

Sandy, there is no problem with master gardeners other than the name. The choice of what to call you guys was unfortunate and misleading. There is absolutely no question about the value of your service to the community, this is not what is under question. If the object is to increase the awareness of the value of a garden, of gardening then working together with those who do this for a living is important, surely. Unless the purpose is to increase the divide. I am trying to work on raising the industry standard not to reduce the standing of the amateur, is it possible to work together on this?

I appreciate the discussion on this because I have run into public misconceptions about what a Master Gardener is several times. People make assumptions about this that are not correct. Perhaps it was not the best choice of a name, but it is what we are called and it is not going to change. It seems that this is an opportunity for more public education, which is what we do. Whether it is one-on-one, or a newspaper article recruiting applicants for the next training session, or assisting people with gardening questions, there are many ways we can help people understand what a Master Gardener is and why it is a valuable program.

Several times I have seen in this thread comments about interactions with the professional green industry that concern me. One of the prohibitions that I thought was written in stone was the use of the Master Gardener title in commercial activities. No MG can use the title for commerce. An employer cannot advertise he has MG employees or use the title in any way in his business. Clinics at nurseries or other commercial sites is not permitted. This doesn't exclude businesses from donating to the program or teaching a class and we can thank them for their donations by displaying such things as "The plants in this garden were donated by ..." or "this was made possible by a donation from ...". It's sort of like buying space in a High School Yearbook. Sandy

Sandy. You bring up a good point, one which has been debated in our county. There are clear prohibitions and then there are grey areas. The clear prohibitions are against using the title Master Gardener that you or an employee has to promote your business, or to personally profit in some way. However, in the case of educational events by Master Gardeners at commercial sites, the guidelines are not clear and it is up to local discretion (at least in this state) whether this is appropriate. I asked a number of Master Gardener Program Coordinators about this and did not find any that felt this kind of cooperation is a problem. Most saw it as a win-win situation. The business benefits by having the Master Gardeners present, but it is not the Master Gardeners reaping personal benefit. The Master Garderer program benefits by having a forum to meet with and educate the public.

The only pitfall I see is where there are several nurseries in town and you give a clinic at one of them, then the others might expect equal treatment and feel you are obligated to doing a clinic at theirs. Otherwise this could be viewed as an endorsement of a particular business.

BotanyBob, that is exactly my point. The program can't afford to play favorites which is why we have the Ext. office set up to receive samples and a system to handle them. Our hours are M-F 8:00am to 4:30pm. If there is no one there who can do it right away, fill out the form and we'll get back to you as soon as possible. We often have calls from people in the green industry who are happy to have someone who can answer questions without needing to sell a product. Since our Horticultural Educator(Agent)has lots of outreach programs for the professionals they are very happy to co-operate. Several of the companies (even the Big Box Stores)have sent employees through the program even though they know they can't inform the public that their employees are MGs. I have to wonder why some other areas have a problem with that. It almost sounds like they think we are competition or that we give recommendations. Sandy