LOL Melissa, I love your post. My DH feels like he knows Ken personally. It seem like everytme I'm working in the garden, I'm telling my DH to do something, cause "Ken said so".

Have you noticed long/tall scapes on your hostas in the sun?

I have Victory in a pot that had over 5 ft scapes last year while sitting in full sun. Moved it into a spot where it gets less sun and the scapes are 2 feet shorter this year.

I have two Empress Wu. One in full sun and one in part sun. The one in full sun has much longer scapes.

Ken, can you explain that one?

Gesila

June in full sun, happy as a pig in a mud puddle. Minimal water, I keep forgetting them. There are three in a row and they all look like this. But no blue in their color at all. Let's see, this is their second year. And their second summer of heat and drought with not one crispy leaf.

Sandy

oh man.. i cant hear or read that title enough.. lol ...

and G, if DH knows me so well.. i can believe you guys dont jump in the car and come see me.. what.. 3 hours.. and hallsons on the way BACK.. lol ... and the hidden lakes collection 10 mins away ???? [gotta tell you though .. the garden looks horrible this year]

vigor is vigor .... and if sun raises vigor.. why not taller flowers ... i dont know ... but what you might see.. is that in shade they lean toward the sun .. but in more sun.. they might go straight up.. if they are that kind ...

sorry.. didnt hear.. what did you say again??? .. again??? again.. lol

ken

I've long been a proponent regarding the fact that Hosta are not 'shade plants', merely 'shade tolerant', in most cases.

I'm so glad that this forum is finding out that many, if not most, cultivars, so do better with some or a lot of sun.

HEY, I so often shout, They are plants, they want light.

/rant_off

hh

i am sorry mel .. what did you say..

lol

ken

I saw some hostas growing in Long Island a few years ago that were out in the sun, no shade around them. It surprised me because if we have any chance of growing them at all, we have to keep them in a shady spot. I have no idea what they were, but they were small-leaved and had a lot of yellow in them. There was a big bed of them.

Melissa and Ken are great contributors, no complaint against them at all. Note, Melissa is in zone 4a. They have beautiful gardens. But then there is that forceful recommendation that we should grow hostas in full sun. That means a lot of watering in 92 degree weather and crispy plants anyway even here in zone 5.

Here is my opinion, based on experience :

- I like to place my hostas in morning sun and a maximum of 1 hour afternoon sun, mostly in shade, do not like crispies.
- I want my garden and the hostas to have a season from May to October, and not only half of that due to getting burned up in too much sun in July.
- I have better things to do in life, such as family, on hot days than to water 300 or more hostas every day.
- I have expensive city water, can not afford all-day watering.
- usually elaborate automatic watering system with little maintenance are expensive here,
- my body revolts when lugging hoses around several times a week in great heat, in addition to other yard maintenance. I like to be inside cool with a beer.
- I could not endure the view of beloved hostas all turning yellowish, some leaves dried while getting all leaf borders crispy.
- What good is all the effort in raising beautiful hostas, to then accept looking at disasters due to the heat.
My opinion, we have a democracy.
Bernd

Good points Bernd.
We do have irrigation and the 2 sun gardens are on an automatic watering system. Our city water is pretty reasonable here. It'd be rare for us to have a waterbill above $60/month.bb

I suspect if I were further south, I'd not choose to have hostas in sun!

I used to live in Minnesota (born in Duluth). You will have far more beautiful hostas in Zone 4 in the sun than here (Zone 5) and I can't even imagine no shade farther south. That said, as soon as the apple tree came down, the sun-lovers like Sum & Substance went crazy. Put that one in shade and you'll get nothing.

Westy

But then there is that forceful recommendation that we should grow hostas in full sun.

==>>> not by me ... you are sounding argumentative .. and defensive ... all i try to do is give info.. its up to you all.. whether you want to listen and act upon the crazy guys suggestions ..

i mean really.. how many of you have tried throwing them on the driveway .. lol ... i dont really expect you to do it ... though.. if you have an extra lacifolia/undulata .. why not.. lol ...

my only point.. is they are only shade tolerant.. and will grow in the sun anywhere ..

but my point is always.. followed by ... [in a perfect world].. by the caveat.. that you you have to try drown them.. AND.. they will look like carp in summer ... and most of you.. can or would not accept that ...

but their root mass.. the part you dont see.. will explode with mass ..

i used to tell peeps .. and you know i am not really talking to those pushing reality in z8 and 9 .... to grow them in sun.. for a year or two ... accepting the uglies.. and THEN move them to a prime spot ...

and this .. of course ... is not a reality.. with peeps on small suburban lots.. there just isnt the space.. for an ugly babe nursery ...

back in the day.. walters nursery.. in zeeland MI.. used to grow mile long rows of the more common workhorses.. and i was told.. by them.. that they were ugly as sin in summer ... and then come fall.. they would harvest them .. divide them ... and package them.. for next springs sales .. and then.. they discovered and perfected TC ... i believe .. i could be wrong.. Zillis was their man.. back then ... the pioneer ... [but i am too lazy to verify this info .... so if i am wrong.. i am wrong ...]

ken

I moved a few from shade that weren't doing much, to a lot more sun this spring. Their first set of leaves have all crispified, but the second flush are looking pretty good, tho smaller. I don't have any expectations in the way of looking good, and I know they won't completely die off, so I'm not worried. Just curious to see how they react for myself.
Michelle

Since the heat will be going on for a few weeks, I have started to put up blinds for shade on hostas which have too much sun. Actually I am reusing the poles and burlap of the winter protection I had put up last winter on newer conifers. Bernd

Ken, I know this is an older message but I have to try to ask...you're saying to let the hostas get crispy for a couple of yrs and for most of them they will recover and adapt to sun? I just lost a rather large Pin Oak this spring that was under planted w/several different hostas. Needless to say, here in central IL we have had a difficult summer. The hostas have struggled and burnt inspite of additional water but they are still going. Since I just had a torn meniscious(sp?) knee surgery they aren't gonna get moved this fall so maybe I will leave them next yr too and see what happens. I should document their growth w/camera and see how they do..

By the way, thanks for all your insight here and about conifers, my favs also.
Regina

We who live in the 8-9 growing zones are pushing reality is it.....but when we do it with containers, we have a chance to hedge our bets. We can push the limit, by moving with the sun. It keeps me busy, of course. And when something looks really bad, I try to give it a more moderate location. But surprisingly enough, the ones I'm having the problems with are the ones with a lot of shade and not much sun.

That was the case with the one hosta which succumbed to southern blight, my lovely The Razor's Edge. It grossed me out having to bag it and throw it into the kitchen garbage which is collected tomorrow. I picked it up like you would doggy poop in the city, and never touched the pot at all.

And I'll throw in a picture of my area reserved for the plantaginea offspring. The space gets a good bit of morning sun, and then the long rays of the afternoon sun as well. I patrol the area because our lot is not laid out according to the cardinal directions, just a hair off. When the first day of autumn, about Sept 21, arrives, I always mark the shadow pattern, where the sun rises and sets, because that is the true east/west for my location.

The hottest spot in my garden is along our northern privacy fence. That is for the summertime. In the wintertime, that area, which is about 22 feet wide, is in total shade. I could (and plan to) place some of my hosta (in containers) along that strip of land but against the foundation which is enclosed crawl space.

My original thought of locating the dwarf or minis in a strip I call the "allee" (alley I guess) turns out to be too shady, too dry, and not enough air circulation. Where we need to avoid humidity and heat, we must have air circulation or the southern blight can find its way into my garden.

I know that the original hosta that I bought were planted in mostly sun up in Massachusetts, zone 5b or now 6a. I did not see them blooming, but my DH sent pictures of the plantaginea, which started my obsession with fragrant hosta.

Ken, you say to throw them on the driveway, and now you copping out as a "crazy man?" No way. I remember Bruce Banyai saying that he tried everything to get his Aphrodites to bloom, including scraping the roots. Which is just about the same as throwing them on the driveway, right? Or dragging them across rough cement? So I realize that I've babied my hosta way too much.

And today at the hardware store they wanted to know what I was doing with all the mulch and I said HOSTA....every one of those ladies....there were four of them....were familiar with HOSTA. And I learned that the local big garden that is so popular, Bellingrath Gardens, has its CHRISTMAS open house and tour, and that featured in their GREENHOUSES, are BLOOMING HOSTA. I hope no one takes exception to my shouting, but it is worth getting excited about it. Guess that this Christmas I'll be headed to Bellingrath with my camera to document the event and share it.

I'll also have to call the gardener there (the one who does the greenhouses anyway, they have so many)and see if they are the folks who ordered a lot of hosta from Naylor Creek last year. Gary said I was not the only Mobile buyer, which intrigues me. I'd love to find another hosta lover here in town. Wouldn't that be great!!! You might take it for granted that other folks grow hosta and you can chat over the back fence about them, but HA, not around here. I said my goal was not to create a display or tour garden, but for my friends, that may be what I have to do.....as well as giving away some hosta when I run out of room and cannot say no to a pretty plant!

Here is some of my fragrant hosta where they get more morning sun. The nearest ones are not the fragrants, they are beyond the sasanqua out there closer to the 7' high chain link fence. Once my star jasmine fills in, no more chainlink showing....

Hey, Moc, have you joined the AHS? They should be coming out with a new Membership directory soon. My 2009-2010 printing shows 34 names from Alabama, including the Birmingham Botanic Gardens. Waaay better than my California 6. You will find like minds there, no doubt.

Just curious...what will you look at in Winter around your yard? Aren't you in a place with few or no freezes like me?

-Babka

hey moc ... am having some family problems..

i want to answer this.. but am afraid i might forget when i get back in 3 or 4 days ...

and i am confused why you put this in mels post ..

anyway.. can you email me thru the members page.. with a link to this.. so i will remember to read it carefully and discuss such..

thanks..

all is well ... just need some time.. ken

hey trash.. welcome.. i see now.. you brought this back up ... heres my bottom line ...

every plant.. has a season.. a prime season.. do you really sit around in august.. and complain that your tulips are browned out husks?? should i get rid of my tricolor beech which is sublime from leaf out until august.. because the creamy edge burns out in august.. i should think not ...

hosta are technically ONLY shade tolerant ... but they have the longest PRETTY season ... in shade ... some protection from late afternoon heat ... and depending how far south you are ... blah.. blah.. blah ...

so if my hosta are only prime.. for may.. june.. and july.. so be it.. if they start looking ratty in august.. thats life.. and i start looking at conifers.. and watching trees turn color.. etc ... see link ....

but they will be growing.. faster.. thicker.. and more vigorously .. especially in regard to root mass .. in full sun with requisite water .. even if they do basically nearly burn to a crisp by sept ... [again.. you southern folks understand the caveat]

sooo.. if it burns too much.. move it for next year..

now.. moc ...

i have known bruce.. and his aunt Daisy .. going on near 25 years .... pauline's son and sister..

frankly ... she ran her hosta business ON HER DRIVEWAY ... if i were to bet a shiny nickle.. the whole derivation of my throw it on the driveway.. is probably based on that.. with some recollection of bruce telling me that come MI winter.. the next spring.. they would find pieces popping up all over the place .. lol ..

i dont know about coping to the crazy part.. and i dont have the time to reread all the posts.. but i admit it.. lol ...

ken

Here is a link that might be useful: link

Ken, I want to help people understand the comment about my mother growing hosta on the driveway.
All our hosta sales plants were grown in the ground, dug and divided in the garage (if cold or rainy) or on the driveway. No tc plants.

The divisions were supposed to be immediately repotted and placed on the driveway to grow out for sale or planted back into the garden for multiplication.

Sometimes when we ran out of dirt, pots, time, hands, you get the picture: Mom would then put them in a shady spot on the drive way, "until I get back to them properly".

Pots with plants would often be put too close to these hosta division piles and we would "forget" to go back and get them..........

Recall we often divided and potted 3-5000 pots in 3-6 weeks, so it was easy to get some plants lost on the driveway.

Times were hectic as well, as we were trying to get as many divided before they fully leafed out so they would be ready for sale in 2-3 weeks.

Finally in July when the Royal Oak or Detroit Eastern Market sales would slow down we would find the lost piles of plants, but they often did not get replanted until 3-8 weeks later, as time and energy permitted.

Thus the hardiness would quickly show, as they would have to survive Madison Heights Michigan summers with limited water and no soil. They seemed to do amazingly well, although only a few people like Ken heard about this.

I will try and go back and get some photos of those full driveway hosta inventories.

Every year she would find a few divisions in the Spring sprouting on the driveway but remember that asphalt driveway always had an inch or so of soil covering most of it. Whenever I tried to hose it clean the soil seemed to miraculously comeback undercover.

Bruce Banyai

hi bruce ...

now that you refresh the old grey cells.. i recall the story ...

but brevity being the soul of wit.. over the years .. here on GW.. i have shortened that wonderful story to:

THROW THEM ON THE DRIVEWAY.. you probably cant kill them if you want to ... lol

ken

ps: and the converse of that was: if you pay $100 for one.. it will commit suicide in the car on the way home ....