Well, I ain't a master by no means, but here we mow it off give things a few days to start to break up ie turn brown then till it under, sometimes we use a plow the first time, but I wouldn't hesitate to plant a fall crop in it. We fight a lot of weeds though.

As for your tractor purchase, I would love to buy a 20k tractor with all the bells and whistles but around here I can buy 50 hp farm tractors for 6k or less. We operate our whole operation with less than 13k in 3 tractors. I have one that has had only fluid and filter changes in 8 years of ownership and it has a loader. The other two have had a few minor issues but nothing to scare me off. Just food for thought.

Our neighbor drives a 32k John deer and in more than one instance he has called for the assistance of one of our "ugly" tractors.
Good. Luck.

6K- that's a steal! May I ask what brands they are?

We have a Massey ferguson 135 it was about 3500 and had a dump loader it is 35 hp ish, Massey ferguson 255 it is 56 hp at the ptoand cost around 4k it is a beast of a tractor. Really puts power to the ground. Finally the one I run the most is a 574 international it is a utility with a loader. It is 57 hp at the pto and cost about 5000, I put another 1000 in it putting a faster loader valve and front auxiliaries to run a grapple.

My recomendations diesel uses less fuel, for a loader tractor front wheel assist is helpful but not absolutely required unless you intend to be in mud. If I were going to buy another I would shoot for 70 ish hp because on occasion breaking our claysoil the 50 ish hp really pull, extra hp would just do it easier. We don't moldboard plow much so I forget about it and am happy with these 3.

We run 3 so during hay season I can cut, dad can bale and mom an pull a wagon for the pick up crew. We have several small fields and may be performing all those in the Same day or time.

Here they are fairly reasonable. We couldn't justify 20 k for a tractor on what the farm makes. I am the penny pincher lol.

There's really no need for roundup if you're just dealing with grass. You may want to get a soil test however to see if you need any amendments, especially lime.

When working new ground I'll mow down the grass, spread lime, then if the soil has some moisture in it, put the tiller on it to kill the sod. If there's a lot of compaction i'll sub-soil it then till again. If there's time (and it rains where you're from) you can plant buckwheat to build organic matter and smother the first weed crop. If not, wait till the fall rains and till (to kill weeds) and plant a winter cover crop (I like a rye, pea, vetch mix).

In the spring you should have a brand new field that's ready to start working with. Mow the cover crop, spread manure/compost and till up your beds for the garden.

Sounds easy, huh?

Have fun
-Mark

Similar to mine, this one is a little rougher than mine and I don't have a cab.
http://www.tractorhouse.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=7874759

Tractor house tends to be a little higher than we can buy them locally. Where are you located?
In my opinion. You have. To watch the franchised dealers. When we bought our 135 we saved 2k buying it from a local equipment seller as opposed to the dealer. But we are 20 mi from a dealer and can get parts. We get the few parts we have needed for the international from NAPA

If you have a good stand of alfalfa, then you shouldn't need to add any lime. Alfalfa need a pH of 7.0 for a really good stand, which is much higher than most vegetables. Check for your other nutrients, tho.

Mow it off SHORT as you can, then plow it. Discing it might not achieve what you want by itself. Do it the same day or next. that why you should need roundup. Then expect to disc again the following week or so, and again in a couple of weeks. And maybe 1 more time about 30 days later, if you see green coming up.

Breaking up alfalfa, isn't as easy as regular grass, the roots are much deeper than regular grass. Don't know about bromegrass.

I purchased a house and land in 2010. The field was tilled, but then flooded May-June. Neighbors blamed the gas company for cutting a drainage tile. I lost control of the field. It became grass AND weed infested.

The ponding problem has subsided. Now I want to retake control. I am planning a 80x20ft bioswale in order to slow run off and TWO 100x50ft for tomatoes and peppers.
Would you recommend glyphosate? Oh, I dont have a tractor. I have a 7HP EconoHorse.
I looked for tillage on craigslist, some guy quoted me $600 an acre to moldboard plow.

If you don't have a tractor to disk and level after moldboard plowing it is gonna cost more than 600. Without seeing it, it is hard to give good advice. Gly will burn down your surface vegatation. I don't like using it personally. Not saying I don't, I just avoid when I can. In my opinion plow it, disk it down and plan to invest in a tractor. I see ford 8n's on Craig's list regularly for 1500 to 2000. They are not a lot of tractor but coupled with a disk will do a lot of work and you get to keep something for your money. Just a thought.

You really need the use of a tractor for month or more. Renting would be more expensive, since you will probably need it 3-4 times. You CAN run a tiller (tractor/pto) over the moldboard to get it down to manageable field. You would still need another discing or 2 spaced out before you could call it a success.

Another way would be to mow it down and lay a heavy landscape/black fabric down over where you want your greenhouse. It will take awhile for the grass to die off, but it will happen.

You may not to have the bare soil over the winter due to erosion.

Around here you can't get a decent 8n/9n for $2k, maybe we need to look in your area.

Thanks for the replies. I forgot to mention that I live in zone 2, in Canada, so I would have to get all fall work done by mid-October.

I'm jealous of the cheap tractors you have down there. Everything here is really expensive. I went to the other website (for Canada) linked on the page that Rio_Grande provided, but the only one listed within my province was 10K.

I have not done a soil test yet, but I'm guessing I would actually need to add sulfur, or a mix of sulfur and ammonium sulfate. Our native soil runs around pH 7.5 and the chosen site is on a knoll (for drainage). There are also a few small ash piles - it looks the previous owner burned the hay in random places. Nothing grows in those piles, while the edges are ringed with clover and alfalfa.

When you say "plow it", does that mean I have to use a moldboard plow attachment, or will a tiller attachment work as well? I'm new to tractors and mechanized farming, so I apologize if this is a stupid question.

i would use the tiller after i mowed it. but i wouldn't want to leave the ground bare for the winter.
smaller tractors fit into smaller spaces. how are you laying out your rows or beds?

Depending on how much SOD you have, whether to moldboard or just till. I can use the tiller within 2 years of having another crop. but every so often we take the moldboard in, to break up deeper.

I would only till what you want to plant, leave the rest just mowed down. That will help with erosion. Figure out where you want the greenhouses and till that area, and your other plots. Leave the remaining in grass to mow. I have several plots with enough between them for a truck to be able to drive along side of them. Makes it easier to pick, leave the baskets at end of row, then just drive along and pick up the baskets. Plus you can cut/mow the grass before it seeds, for your own hay/mulch. Just make sure you keep the weeds from seeding.

Slimy okra , depending on which side of Canada you are on , I just checked Tractorhouse and Yesterday's Tractor and found several tractors that would fit your needs in a good price range, all in Canada. The biggest problem is the distance the same as us. I search in my surrounding area within say one or two hundred miles.

James

I may have given bad advice on the tillage, I diddnt even think about differing soils. I am in mostly clay soils so the first thing we have to do is plow deep, mix by tilling or dissing then at least a season of green manuer or barn manuer. If we want to plant first tilling we can but we have to fertalize.

Good luck. It dosent have to be an international or a Massey. There are lots of good tractors out there.

Slimy Okra

I don't want to hijack your thread, but have very similar question -

we recently acquired a property with approx. 3ac of level field. It hasn't been worked for at least 10 years (maybe longer). But it was mowed regularly, probably 2x/year. I don't know what kind of grass is growing there. There is lots of clover too. (Resident bunny seems to like it around there!)

Also thinking of converting it to veggie (?) growing area, but not knowing anything about 'farming' (only grew tomatoes-cucumbers-beans-lettuce-garlic and few herbs in small city garden so far), I think we may have to do it over few years.

myfamilysfarm said:

Mow it off SHORT as you can, then plow it. Discing it might not achieve what you want by itself. Do it the same day or next. that why you should need roundup. Then expect to disc again the following week or so, and again in a couple of weeks. And maybe 1 more time about 30 days later, if you see green coming up.

I am not sure if I understand correctly: should there be spraying by roundup?

After mowing/plowing/discing, I thought there should be some winter cover crop planted (as mentioned by madroneb/Mark: rye, pea, vetch mix).

If this was done this fall (and what is the latest one can plow?), is it necessary to repeat in the spring?

Property is in Ontario, Canada, zone 5b. Soil is sandy. The area is quite low-laying, so it is moist rather than dry. Property was used for vegetable growing.

It all seems very overwhelming, I will probably be very happy if I manage to put few beds in for spring.
And have no tractor or anything similar yet.

Thank you for any suggestions, and I hope op doesn't mind, hopefully I asked relevant questions.

Rina

Tina don't sweat it too bad, I have done things this year garden wise that I not qualified to do. But almost all of. Them have turned out to not be a total loss. Research and give it a shot.

Rina, if you've had grass for several years, you will probably need to plow the sod under, you can plow as late as you can get the tractor but before snow. Different years will be different. You want to plow before the ground freezes. You will not need to plow again in the spring, if you have plowed in the fall. You will need to disc it, just to break up the crust that will form over the winter.

Research is a good time, but each person/area is different, all you can do is try it. If it succeeds, great, if not you're not out too much. Just don't try to take on too much the first few years. Build up to what you can manage.

Thanks for the answers, Rina

Rina
Here in the states, we always plowed in the fall to kill the grasses and disked in spring so the winter snow and rain would help level the plowed field, I have disked over fresh plowed field on the same day and if the ground is not dry enough it makes for a very rough ride. I never helped enough when I was younger and now I get in a hurry to get in when spring arrives having been to busy with market till last of October so as soon as tractors are started in spring plowing and disking are done on soil that is to wet. When your clay soils are to wet they stand up higher making hills for the tractor to bounce over making it a hard ride. With your sandy soil you should not have this problem so Marla's statement since she doesn't plow or disk has never had the pleasure of the experience and I just learned in the last five years since buying our own 49 Massey Harris tractor without three point so we could not use a tiller behind it. I was to young with my grandfather and to new in her family before her father died to learn from people with experience.
James

James

Thank you again for taking time to elaborate.
I have been reading this forum for at least 6 mo, trying to get 'ideas'. There is going to be lots of work this fall & spring, but I'll take it slowly, try to attempt only what I could manage.

At this time it looks like I may have to 'rent' someone in the area with equipment - had some quotes to mow and another to plow and/or to disc. It amounts to approx. $1,000 - for approx. 3ac.
It sounds like lots of $$$, but I don't want to rush into buying equipment without having some understanding of it.

My grandparents owned a large farm, but I was too young to even care, and visited only in the summertime. That was time to play & eat all the fruit and veggies they grew. Never thought that I may want to do some of what they were doing.
Hopefully as I get to know neighbours, there will be some available to share their knowledge.
And will keep reading this forum...have so many clippings to read over again, the winter will be study time for me.

My field was "clean" in May of 2011. I am going to mow it down as close as possible on Tuesday. Next weekend I will attempt to rototill with my troybuilt.

I want to allow for one or two false seedbeds then plant buckwheat to frost kill.

A tip that we've found in the past, before tilling with the tiller, mow, and if the grass/weeds are tall, rake it or remow a couple of times. It will help save time undangling the weeds from tiller tines.

For those considering buying tractors to do major ploughing/tillage you might be interested in this (Australian) resource I found about ownership/contracting costs. I'm sure there are equivalents wherever you are. Anyway it pointed out to me that the annual cost of tractor ownership is very high and $1,000 for a contractor to do all the work you require can be a bargain.

It seems pretty common for market gardeners around here to get someone in once a year to plough up their acreage and form beds and then they just maintain in for the rest of the year with a walk-behind tiller. This is the path I am going to go down until I can justify a big machinery outlay.

(Ps - of course your ownership costs will vary, especially if you are able to do maintenance and repairs yourself. But even so there is always depreciation and replacement parts)

Here is a link that might be useful: Guide to machinery costs and contracting rates

Lol, just read enough of that to work up a good laugh. In 8 years of ownership my maintenance costs on the international have been a whopping 320.00 it gets an oil change and and clean filter every year weather it needs it or not. I have to have shop space regardless, have to have grease regardless, have a umbrella policy on the farm, 1 tractor or 20 it dosent matter. I don't doubt the article but I don't think it is practical, and we are tight. I contract out work with our equipment and skid steer, track loader and our minimum charge to show up is 400.00 I couldn't imagine paying someone 800 plus juts to turn over a few acres and it still isint really ready to plant. I barely see any profit margin as it is let alone if we had to start every year 400-1k in the hole for tillage. I think in this business, if you are growing and not buying at auction to sell you are gonna have to buy a tractor, sooner ya do the sooner it is paid for.

But that is only derived from experience. I don't have time to perform a scientific experiment.

owning an older tractor can be very expensive as parts wear out and need to be replaced unless you do your own repair work. hiring someone to do custom work would be impossible in some places as there is no one around who does that kind of work.
there are plenty of veggie growers without tractors and they make out very well.

Ok, we started out without any tractor, just a small walk behind tiller. Our ground has previously been a productive corn field. We gradually got to the point of 5 acres of veggies. We rented/borrowed tractors. My mother had a Gravely (old one) with several attachments, and that's what 'plowed' our first garden plot. We rented a tractor with tiller from a local rental place several years, usually only 1x per year. Sometimes we would rent the tractor with a bushhog and mow some of the big weeds in the fall. It took TIME and lots of ENERGY.
Now we've scaled back to less than 1/2 acre, and our tiller is out of commission. Our tractor disc the 'garden' plots and we planted some of that area.
Yes tractors need repairs, be sure to buy one that uses the same parts as ones that are still in business, or be ready to 'make' things work (our tractor has some Chevy parts and other parts that I'm not sure where they came work, but they work).

Marla