I am really thinking of doing CSA or wholesale next year instead of market. $100 is a *good* day for me (and I usually take $400-500 worth of stuff with me, though I don't often have much the beginning of the season so usually only make it during August and Sept).

I know I have to work on succession planting and getting earlier harvests. For a CSA I'd probably have to do a greater variety, for wholesale maybe I can specialize.

But I've been really disappointed in markets over the past 4 years, the costs keep going up and you can never predict what sales are going to be (I average $45/wk and it's really not worth that, sales can range from $25 to over $100 and I'm donating more than I'm selling - so maybe the thing to do is just grow for charity and take the deduction?!).

The large farms seem to dominate the markets here. There are a few residential farmers doing OK, but mostly it's the places with lots of equipment, acreage, and employees. The small farms that are doing well are those that specialize in goat cheese, maple syrup, and grass-fed beef or pork.

I'm not sure where the contest is. If you like farmers markets and make money there, do them. If you prefer a CSA and it works for you, do that.
Nobody here can make the decision for you, it depends on your location, situation and a dozen other things.

Personally I prefer farmers markets. They pay me well, require less commitment then a CSA and get me off the farm. But that's just me.

-Mark

I guess it is what your area will handle. Here in my part of Kansas, a CSA is a really hard sell. I knew a fellow vendor who set up a winter csa market. He started promoting it in May and it took until October to fill his 30+ shares, he was requiring money up front.

My online market, run through Locally Grown, has never really took off. I am going to try it again this winter. I have some more people signed up.

My markets have been fairly consistent. The problem is the weather and missing work time at home to sell. We do 3 markets a week.

I agree with Mark, the commitment part of a CSA scares me. Since my markets are in neighboring big cities, I usually have a shopping list to do after the market. We prefer to by as much as we can from our small town businesses, but some of the specialty items and materials in bulk amounts they don't provide. Probably could order it for us, but I don't always plan ahead that much!

I always have *something* for a CSA, and could plant more (though it might be things like kale that other CSAs do to "fill in"). The problem is having enough to bring to market to make it worth the fee and packing the truck. Maybe if I had to pay my market fee up front I'd go no matter what. But not much to take plus knowing it's going to cost me $20 (plus gas) that day makes me weigh my product and the weather vs the potential sales each week. If all I have is preserves, I don't tend to go b/c I can always sell them later - but if that happens in a CSA, well, they all get preserves (and eggs) that week.

CSA customers will come to pick up no matter the weather (as long as you have shelter), or forfeit. And you can always socialize with them. I know you don't want to disappoint people but do CSA customers tend to be as picky as market customers? Comparing prices of your stuff to other vendors, grocery stores? I don't think so, b/c the cost is hidden - though at the end of the season they may say "I paid too much for that" and you may have to send out an end-of-the-season letter adding it all up for them - I think people will always underestimate how much they actually spend on food. Now if all you give them is kale, cuumbers, and rutabagas, they might say it's not worth it...

These comments are interesting since my thoughts were that I could do better with less hastle at the farmers markets. Never did a CSA but I've seen others go that route and there are some that failed. You need the same or greater commitment in my opinion to keep a CSA customer happy. I've heard lots of comments from dissatisfied customers who don't get the produce choices they want or the quality. The result is a lasting stigma against future involvement with that farmer.

I like the concept that when my quality is down I display it and the customer has the option to buy or refuse, no hard feelings. I can adjust price accordingly and customers either get a bargain or can purchase other things or even select elsewhere. For now I don't mind being the guy who provides shareholders with the things and service they can't get and I lend a sympathetic ear to hear all the complaints.

The commitment part of CSA that I dislike is not really about the time of going to market vs. doing a pickup each week. It's more is more about having to grow things just because people expect them, regardless of the weather or if I enjoy growing them.

And now that I read the above post, I agree with it too.

-Mark

This post was edited by madroneb on Mon, Oct 27, 14 at 11:49

I can see that - there are things that I enjoy growing more than others. But don't people "expect" you to grow certain things for market? Or do you just try to find a niche?

It seems that CSAs have to be all things to all people, if they're putting in a significant investment up front, they expect to get the bulk of their produce each week, for maybe 1/3 or 1/2 the year, from the CSA. So yes you have to grow a greater variety of crops.

But I also agree with Lucy that you don't have the guesswork of what to plant for market, how much to plant, how much to harvest each week, how to price it, and then end up going home with stuff you have to donate, preserve, or compost ASAP if you brought too much, and/or the "wrong" thing(s).

I guess there is no perfect marketing plan.

One of our local CSAs published a tentative timeline of what they would offer each week, as well as other items they might have available depending on growing conditions. I found this very helpful in evaluating the CSA. They were on the way to our home, and only a couple miles away, so it would not be hard to get the produce. I saw the folks working the farm out on the land often as I passed by. They put in a huge amount of work, in my opinion, but their crops were quite high quality. For $1400 or $1800 a year, it was a pretty reasonable investment, considering both the quality and quantity of produce they provided. Besides vegetables, they had eggs and dressed stewing chickens (the higher cost option). The operation closed after only a few years, not, I think, because of their product quality or prices, but because the people doing the work were tired. I think they limited it to 50 or 60 shares, and there was one person who worked full time during the growing season, as well as occasional helpers from the CSA. I don't think the full-time person, who owned the property and lived there, had any other job, so he was not doing much part of the year, and working like a dog most of the year.
Renais

I think the Song Haven Farm has a reasonable selection of produce, and not too high a price. (See link.) These folks only provide 15 weeks of produce (mid-July- mid-October), and they limit their selection somewhat, but they do provide enough that you could be happy cooking and eating produce for 4 months. I think their listing would be a good start for planning a CSA offering. Note that they only offer 25 shares, but their offerings also probably do not exhaust them as much as some of the larger CSAs with more variety of offerings. A CSA is no good if you are exhausted by the experience, and quit soon after starting. I had several conversations with the owner of another CSA in their area, and she also limited her shares, but had a longer time period of offerings because she had a greenhouse (mostly solar) to produce the food earlier. I believe she had something like 75 shares, each around $1200, and each requiring a couple half days of work during the year. She lived simply but comfortably on the income produced. I think she did not want to increase her farm size because it would have been too much work for her, and she did not want to hire full time help. She did have several unpaid summer interns who lived on the farm to learn techniques, and of course, work hard! There used to be meat shares available on some nearby farms for something like $40/week.
Renais

Here is a link that might be useful: Song Haven farm

The CSA group on facebook is very much against FMs. There are always variables. I think you can make more at a good market than from CSA but it is more time to do market. To me that is a truth. I am cutting out market in summer next year and increasing CSA shares if I can sell them. It will give me more time. I had a few issues from lack of time this year such as never weeding or thinning beets which, along with deer nibbling, meant no beets. I don't want to give up baking and canning and winter markets because I need the mid winter income. I think the FM life is really hard. It is extremely tiring trying to sell vegetables to people who don't want any. The people who want veggies seem to already have signed up for CSAs.

CSAs can be stressful in a way market isn't. Nothing is worse than being short on produce for people who paid ahead! With market you can bring the quantity and items you want and raise or lower prices as desired. But markets are so much more work weekly that I think that is a huge stressor too.

I have maintained they complement each other, especially regarding when the money comes in. If I quit market entirely I would make a lot of money in early spring and then a little in fall and nothing the rest of the year except for selling off farm.

One thing I did with my CSA 6 years ago was to go to a market style pick up where my members get to choose 6 items from between 25 and 40 items (this week I have harvested 37 different things). This way they get to choose what they want and are all happy.

I keep records of what they take and that lets me know what to plant more of and what to plant less of or not at all.

This also means if I am short of something it doesn't matter much, I put those sort of things out and it is first come first serve. When I was pre packing shares I did not know how to deal with such things other than take them to farmers market and hope they sell.

For CSA growers - what kind of pickup location do you choose? A local business? Do you have to get permission from anyone?

a lot of csa's around here also do farmers markets and that is one of their pickup locations.

Same here - but I know some CSAs buy stuff in when they don't have something, our markets are producer only so it's nice to have the option to fill in with stuff from another farm if you're short and don't want to disappoint CSA customers. Whereas if I'm short, I just have nothing to bring to market that week. But if I have excess after going to CSA, then I could potentially bring it to market (or wholesale to another CSA, but so far that hasn't happened, my tomatoes got LB this year *right* after organic farm asked me if I had any they could buy).

I would have to find a different pickup location than my market, because most customers here who go for CSAs are those who can't physically make it to the market on a regular basis. I have considered delivering for a fee. Any other suggestions?

This post was edited by Slimy_Okra on Wed, Oct 29, 14 at 18:50

I do all on farm pick up as i found when I did deliveries to drop points my members has zero contact with the farm and their disconnect from food and farming was very strong and being in my CSA was not doing much for it and I did not like that.

But when I did them I would ask members if they wanted to host a drop point. I am thinking of using a local co-op I belong to and also where I sell a lot of produce, as a drop point in 2015 as that would likely double my CSA numbers andI would likely not have the disconnect problems that I had in the past. All I have to do is ask the manager and i suspect she will say yes as they have been a drop point for other CSA's who support this co-op far less than my far does (we do fund raisers for them along with selling to them)