If you are cutting out and removing the sod, why would you need to spray with anything? Most weeds will be limited to the root zone of the turf as well, with the exception of some deeper rooted perennial weeds like dandelions, which can be removed manually.

'Burn Out' is concentrated acetic and citric acid. While considered a "natural" product, it is not necessarily safer or less damaging than a product like RoundUp. It is extremely caustic so protection is necessarily when applying, it works best in full sun, is a broad spectrum product (will damage anything it comes into contact with) and it will alter the soil pH at least temporarily. A significant decline in pH - even at the soil surface - will reduce soil biology. Not a great idea.

If you are removing the sod, just layering with newspaper to smother any remaining weeds or weed seeds and then covering with compost or soil should be sufficient.

Why are you taking the sod out? Once the grass is dead and decayed, the sod layer is prime topsoil, full of humus. My standard method is to spread black plastic over the area and leave it there for three weeks. If the weather is warm, that kills everything (except for weed seeds).

Black plastic does not allow the soil community to breathe.

I agree that not removing the sod will keep that nice hummusy topsoil in place and that round-up is bad. What about using vinegar to kill the grass and weeds? I think I read about this in Mother Earth news online but don't quote me. they said using regular white vinegar with a few drops dishsoap mixed in to make it stick will kill the grass so you don't have to dig it out. Is that enough to change the soil Ph significantly?

We cut out a large section of our lawn to create more beds. What we did is use a small hand sod cutter and cut the sod into about 8 x 8" chunks. We then removed the chunks, turned them over and slightly bermed them up in the centre of the new beds and then put more soil overtop the turned-over, cut sod. That way you use the soil/sod, requiring less soil for the new bed and the sod eventually decays and adds good humus/nitrogen to the bed. A bit of work but recycling at its best!

bboy, I've been using black plastic for decades, and I don't see any ill effect. I doubt that a 10'x20' piece of plastic is going to stop air circulation. Farmers cover acres of land with black plastic while growing high-value crops.

So if you don't notice anything, nothing happened? When plastic (or newspaper etc. - anything smothering) is left in place long enough for roots to grow, they end up coming out of the ground and growing along the bottom of the covering - due to the lack of gaseous exchange. Earthworms and other more conspicuous denizens will also be found just beneath the covering when it is lifted - does not matter how small the section of material is. So I wonder what is happening to the other components of the soil system during the time that it is cut off.

High-value farm crops like strawberries are small plants with limited root systems. Such crops are also often developed from plants native to disturbed sites, these may have more tolerance of gases and other features of recently disrupted soil communities. A Japanese-type garden, on the other hand is liable to consist primarily of trees, shrubs and other longer-lived plants originating in older, stabilized soil conditions.

It is not very accurate or informative to make statements like "RoundUp is bad". "Bad" is relative -- RoundUp and similar products have well-defined and acknowledged uses and are no better or worse than any other pesticide, including many that are described or considered to be 'natural' or 'organic'. The persistance of RoundUp in the soil is minimal and it breaks down rapidly with typical soil biological activity. It is also not inclined to leach. If applied according to directions and to appropriate plants, it is a very effective and relatively harmless tool.

Vinegar is acetic acid - household vinegar is just a very low concentration of acetic acid and therefore not nearly as effective as something like Burn Out. Repeated applications are typically necessary. And it requires the same type of conditions for application (sun, dryness).

Personally, given the situation described above, I'm not convinced any product is necessarily called for. Manually remove any remaining weeds, cover with newspapers if you wish and top off with decent soil or mulch.

gardengal, you are right, bad is relative. I garden organically as much as possible but I was wrong to assume the OP has the same goal.

Thank you for pointing out that Burn Out is the same as household vinegar but in a higher concentration. i didn't know that. If I need to do that again I may try that product.

I like lagagnons method! I think I'll try that one too!

I believe that vinegar can have a lasting effect on the soil and Round Up doesn't.....

So, I use Round Up sprayed down a 2 liter pop bottle in my flower beds to spot kill and vinegar on the expansion joints in the driveway and along the curb where weeds grow prolifically.

A caution in order here.
Watch out for the use of a Brand Name vs. the ingredient name.

There is 'Round Up' out there that has diquat in it in addition to the glyphosate.

It goes by '12 hour' round up, 'extended release' etc.

(Same as with a jillion cold medicines--READ the ingredients and only get the one you need .)

RoundUp Extended Release is being heavily advertised, yes it's kind of odd that they are being allowed to use the RoundUp selling name when another active ingredient is involved. Maybe tacking on "Extended Release" meets legal requirements.