I think you have enough room for that tree there. I would plant it about midway between the house and the power lines, or perhaps a little closer to the house. Then again I am more comfortable with having trees close to one's house than some people. Its growth pattern will depend on where the light is. If it has to reach for the light, it will probably not be so broad, but it will grow into a very broad tree in full sun. Another thing to think about is, if you move it to the middle of the yard, you had better not plan on watering the grass. I have seen many madronas die when developers attempt to incorporate them into irrigated landscapes. Madronas have a need for the soil to be dry for a period in the summer to really do well. (Although, I have heard there are a few growing in Scotland.... but summer-water-tolerant madronas seem to be the exception rather than the rule.)

One more thing to consider is that madronas resent disturbance and are notoriously difficult to move. Usually they die as soon as warm weather comes, if you try to move them. I have seen it done successfully, but a plant that is growing in thin, rocky soil is likely to have a deep root system that will not come out and the tree is even more likely to die when you cut those roots off. Nursery-grown seedlings are more likely to be successful, though they can be difficult to find (especially larger sizes). Try Colvos Creek.

I think most people like madronas.... you just don't see them in nurseries much because their needs don't fit the mainstream conventional nursery and gardening practices. They don't like to be watered too much, and they don't like to be moved. Good luck.

There's only one answer to all your questions ... NO.
You can't move an Arbutus menziesii (Arbutus / Madrone) period. It will die ... without question, if moved.
Best thing to do is harvest the seed (ready right now) and stratify with intentions of planting in spring where you'd like one to grow.

Cheers, Barrie.

Ummmm.... That's not very encouraging. But, hey, it's free. No harm in trying. I have to dig it out of the strip along the street anyway.

Shoot. Is there *anything* that will improve my chances? I planned to move it in the next week or so.

Barrie, given your ominous post, can you steer me to some reliable directions for harvesting the seed (from the tree across the street, I presume)?

Oh, and I never water my grass, anyway. I'm starting a project to replace the grass with other ground cover (hopefully low-maintenance, zero-watering (suggestions are always welcome)).

Thanks,
pj

While the chances are good that the tree you move will die, it is not absolutely inevitable. Three years ago I salvaged four 2' trees from a property about to be razed for development. The 3 I kept (and coddled) for myself died within months. The fourth, planted at the top of a pal's scree slope in meager soil is thriving. Might as well try. I'd approach the roots from the furthest point you can imagine them reaching, dig/scratch very carefully, and maybe use a strong water jet to loosen their grip? It's that tap root that'll getcha. But, as you say...you have to remove it anyway, so why not try? Somewhere up here in Whatcom or Skagit county I have recently seen a nursery billboard that says "We have Madrone!". I will retrace my steps and see if I can recall where that was. My guess is Mt Vernon. If I were going to try a madrone, I would build a sizeable mound of mostly gravel, plop it in the top and mask the mound with big rocks. Drainage seems to be everything to this tree.

According to my books, this is a good time of year to harvest fruits/seeds. Remove the pulp and plant each seed in it's own container. Leave outdoors to cold stratify and hope for seedlings in the spring. Pot on early, using deep containers. Be gentle. Plant in permanent location when the tree is around 2 feet tall.

I hope it works. I love madrones too.

That's right, if the price is right, you might as well try. I too have seen it done, it just isn't successful very often. They are pretty slow growers from seed so if you can find a 1-2' tall plant, I would go that route. You have to pick apart the fruits to get the small seeds but they germinate easily.

For low-maintenence, low water groundcover, I think mixed plantings are the best because they are not so monotonous. You could create a planting of things like Euphorbia, Lavender, Halmiocistus, Cistus, Ceanothus gloriosus, Fragaria, Potentilla, Penstemon, Delosperma, etc.

You can collect the seed and once cleaned, can be sown into peat pots. These can be planted directly where you want them, pot and all. This eliminates any root disturbence whatsoever.

Cheers, Barrie.

"For low-maintenence, low water groundcover..."

Would you consider wooly thyme to fit in this category?

I'll sneak across the street this weekend and look for seed pods.

I saw the billboard advertising madronas, too. It was Wells Nursery in Mt Vernon. Good luck--I love them too.

We very succesfully raised 2 madronas from small, wild forest plants. Put them in pots for a year, tucked them away behind a shed and left them alone. The following year, planted them along the roadway in very poor, sandy soil... and they are now each over 4 ft high! Benign neglect is the answer. Also, UBC tells me that ANY damage whatever to a root allows a bacteria to enter, which will kill the tree, so that is why it is easier to handle small ones. Yours may be somewhat too big, I fear.

The native madrones are just a difficult tree for cultivated gardens. As mentioned, they resent transplanting, regular irrigation and tend to suffer in urban areas from pollution. Plus they are very vulnerable to anthracnose, leaf spot and a host of other fungal issues (not the least of which is Phytophthera ramora, aka Sudden Oak Death) and these problems are exacerbated by typical garden cultivation.

Your best bet for establishment is something rather small, however long term success with this tree in a garden setting is difficult to predict. Have you considered a hybrid arbutus like 'Marina'? Much more adaptable to a garden situation, less likely to develop fungal problems and will develop the same cinnamon colored exfoliating bark. And pretty widely available in this area.

This is a little off-subject, but there is a small marine park near here where there are two Madronas which start off about 10 feet apart, grow as separate trees to about 15 feet high, then grow together as one tree! It looks like a pair of legs and a torso. It (they) are probably 40 feet tall. Kind of interesting.

Geez...I'd sure like to see those trees next time I'm passing thru Duncan. Do you recall the name of the marina?
I have a big one growing in my back that curves and arches. It nearly defies gravity.

Cheers, Barrie.

It's actually in a marine park on Saltspring Island, only accessible by water. It is a unique area -- last time I was there I found rattlesnake orchids -- the plants, not the flowers. It is a little jewel of a park. Next time I am there I will take a dig pic of it.

I have a baby madrona I just found while pulling up some alders, will I have killed it by having pulled up the alders? I'm worried about root disturbance if it's really so very sensitive. None of the alders were closer than about two feet, and the madrone is about five foot tall.

It's not likely you damaged any roots Jennie. I think your Madrone will be fine.

Cheers, Barrie.

I love madrones, too, and am lucky to have a stand of three very large trees in my yard. So far they have survived even a total rebuild of our house, but we were very careful where we allowed excavators etc. -- nothing near the trees. The bases of the trees are surrounded by salal, which effectively protects them from mowers and weedeaters. We don't irrigate our lawn in the summer, and never use chemicals.

I am 99.999% certain that your little volunteer will die when you try to move it. The tree does not tolerate root disturbance. I have had great luck, however, starting the plant from seed. (Harvest the berries now. Put them in a plastic bag with some water and let them start to ferment. Then you can mash them and let them dry. I put them in the fridge for a few months to cold treat them, but I've heard this isn't necessary. Plant them in peat pots, and when they are large enough, plant the pot and all in the ground in the desired spot.) Or, for faster results, Wells Nursery in Mt. Vernon (you can see it from the freeway) does indeed have the trees for sale. Be very careful when you transplant (they will give you a helpful pamphlet with instructions).

Do keep in mind that madrones are incredibly messy trees!!! They drop blossoms in the spring, and berries in the fall. I do not mind that, really, but they shed their leaves and bark in the summer. Dried madrone leaves are tough, and, depending on your situation, can be a real nuisance. You'll need to think about the effect all of this debris will have, for example, on your gutters.

That said, they are gorgeous. I love ours (even though I have to run the lawnmower in the hot summer months, not to cut the grass -- brown and dormant -- but to shred up all of those pesky leaves.) Birds and other varmits are very attracted to the berries. We enjoy the wildlife -- last week we had 4 raccoons climbing the trees to get a snack!

The UW Center for Urban Horticulture has published a book which compiles many studies done on these trees. Instructions for propogation are included, as well as lots of good information on culture requirements. It is a great resource. I paid $16 for mine about 5 years ago.

Good luck

Well, I'm going to try moving it, but I won't be surprised if it dies. I guess it's actually a little bigger than I first thought...
{{gwi:1092339}}

I gathered a bunch of the berries from the one across the street and I will try propogating them. Thanks for all the advice.

pj