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Delayed Drought Damage on Trees and Shrubs

13 years ago

We've had a limb drop problem for a couple of months now. I am sure it is related more to damage from last year's prolonged, exceptional drought. It seems to be escalating.

Sometimes, when trees are drought-stressed and their vascular systems cannot support the entire plant, an entire limb will just suddenly fall off the tree. I'm talking about limbs that look healthy and have nice, green foliage. This is normal behavior and it is believed the tree sheds a branch or branches in order to ensure survival of the rest of the tree. So, am I surprised that some trees in our woodland are dropping limbs now? Not really, but you should see the size of the trees and the size of the limbs they're dropping! Many are oak trees that range from 40' to 80' in height. The limbs they are dropping are larger than the oldest oak tree in our yard, which is a post oak that's about 30 years old. It is crazy. In some cases, the limbs they are dropping represent maybe 20-30% of a given tree's total crown.

We also have some trees and shrubs that leafed out normally in the yard, where they were well-watered last summer, and which now are dying. Sometimes the whole thing is dying, and other times one side of the shrub or tree is dying.

I just thought I'd mention this because if we are seeing it here, I expect others of you may see it as well. Such drought damage is normal, especially in 'wild' areas where no irrigation can be provided. I am kind of shocked at how large some of the trees are that are dropping limbs now.

We normally stay out of the snakey woods in the warm season when snakes are active, and that's a good thing, because these big limbs are large enough to kill someone if they were to fall onto them. Heck, most of these limbs probably could crush an elephant.

I should add that I am seeing this occurring in other folks yards too. For most of us, it seems to be the worst with native oaks.

This is the first time we've seen this sort of delayed drought stress on such a large scale here. We did see it on a much smaller scale in 2004 after the drought of 2003.

Comments (15)

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The damage you are seeing to the oaks seems to have been expected by some. I just can't believe it. I'm about ready to do a rain dance too. I have large cracking in the dirt around my house already. We need water bad!

    When I read your post it reminded me of this news story I ran across earlier this week--

    Here is a link that might be useful: bugs, oak trees, drought problems in oklahoma

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I expected the limb drop last summer or fall and didn't have it. We're sure having it now.

    We had it after the drought of 2003, but not nearly as bad as it is this year.

    Ditto on all the bugs mentioned in the news article you linked. I've never seen as many pest insects as I'm seeing this year.

    Looks like we'll have lots of challenges this year.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    That must be what's wrong with my hollies out front. They started out looking fine, then big branches just turned brown all at once. It looks like spider mite damage, but there's no mites.

    I haven't seen the big insect pest problem yet, except for fleas. I've seen lots of butterflies, but they're ok. Maybe because there are also lots of spiders in my yard. They seem to like the straw mulch around my tomatoes.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Julie, The fleas are awful, aren't they? I have used drops on my dog, a flea collar (he needs a new one and I couldn't even find one last week), and he is getting a daily bath with flea shampoo. He hates the spray, so I tried spraying it into my hand while wearing a rubber glove and trying to get some into his fur. I am fighting a battle with the fleas.

    I have had lots of the white butterflies which I think are the imported cabbage loopers, but I haven't seen a worm problem yet, but the Harlequin bugs have been really bad. Dorothy said she already has Japanese Beetles, and I don't have them yet, but I know I will. They are disgusting.

    We didn't experience the drought last year like most of Oklahoma did. We didn't have much summer rain, but the rest of the year was OK, so I doubt that our trees had damage. If my trees start dropping limbs, I couldn't walk outside because my trees are huge.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I just got some K9 Advantix for the dogs last week and it seems to be working a lot better than the Frontline Plus. I think the fleas at my house are immune to that stuff now. One cat is also switched to Advantage II, but unfortunately the one with flea allergy is sensitive to it and has to stick with the Frontline until I find something better--I think I will try Revolution on him.

    I have been seeing lots of moths, so I'm putting BT on the tomatoes every week to prevent fruitworms--they are my main fear in the caterpillar department because they ate a bunch of my tomatoes last year. I don't care if caterpillars get on my flowers, in fact I planted a bed of flowers just for butterflies. Although they are just about to start blooming, so I might have been too late for them.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Ditto on the fleas! I'm going to get the diatomaceous earth on my grass as soon as the wind slows down.

    Julie- One thing I've learned with my pets over the years is the more I "doctor" them up with the various flea/tick remedies, the worse their allergies and illness's get. It took me awhile to realize anything that requires me to wear rubber gloves or has warnings about not getting it on my skin....probably wasn't good for my pets either. The poisons are too harsh on their livers and immune systems and we've actually done really well with the natural remedies i've decided to use instead. My doberman pinschers would run and hide when they would see me coming with the rubber gloves and little vial of poison, so I knew it probably made them sick to some degree immediate enough for them to be able to make the association with the gloves and vial, but I kept putting it on them for several years until my female developed severe allergies, including the flea allergy, and my male began having seizures, which may be more of an overvaccination problem, but i'm sure the flea remedies didn't help. If you want to know I've found to work in the holistic department of flea remedies, I'd be glad to share.

    Dawn, One more time, what was the name of that scale I was asking you and tim about that tells you how dry the soil is, Harper county was over 300 at the time of the swap. you talk about it last year during the drought. I thought Tim said there was a link on the mesonet, but it must have been on some other site because I can't find it on there and my brother didn't know what I was talking about.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Sheri,

    Hi. It is the Keetch Byram Drought Index. I'll link the KBDI map for you below.

    The way to get to it is to go to OK Mesonet's main page. On that page, click on the words "More Maps" in the menu that sits just left of the map of Oklahoma. That takes you to the a page with a left menu of more maps. Click on the word Rainfall which brings up a listing of more maps. Click on the graphic titled Rainfall Summary (Tables and Maps). That takes you to the Oklahoma Climatological Survey website. When it takes you to the Oklahoma Climatological Survey website you will be on a page called Rainfall Summaries. On that page, go to the menu at the left side of the page and click on the words Drought and Wildfire. It will pull up another page. Just page down a little ways on that page and you'll see the Oklahoma Keetch-Byram Drought Index Page. Click on it to get a full-sized image.

    As much rain as you've had this spring, I think your KBDI won't be as high now as it was when we saw one another at the Spring Fling. However, if rain isn't falling, it will go up quickly in this hot, dry, windy weather.

    I'm going to link it below, just in case I left out a step or didn't explain the steps to get to it well enough.

    There are many other ways to view soil moisture maps on the OK Mesonet and OCS websites. It is just that the KBDI is something we watch closely here for fire fighting planning purposes, so over the years I've learned how to correlate the numbers on the map with what I observe on our own land.

    In a normal "bad year", we'll be hitting the 500s in August and I am starting to worry about a busy autumn fire season, and a garden that is far too dry. In our county, we're already in the low 400s, so I am expecting a horrible summer unless some good rain falls soon, and plenty of it.

    Remember that on the KBDI Map, 0-200 is typical in spring, 200-400 in summer, 400-600 in fall, and 600-800 in winter. The higher the number, the drier your soil is at that time. I don't worry too much if my county is in the normal range of numbers for that specific season, except it always concerns me when we're 600 or higher.

    The KBDI updates daily. While it is a fire product that helps firefighters and emergency management personnel understand how intense fires are likely to be because of the presence/absence of moisture in the upper layers of the soil, I use it to help me track how dry the soil is. Once my county's KBDI hits 500-550, I know I cannot water the veggies enough to keep them producing. That number is what I have learned through trial and error. I would say that everyone has to match their KBDI with their own soil observations to understand when the KBDI hits that point for them.

    There's also a Fractional Water Index map on the Soil Moisture portion of the Mesonet, but in my area it stays 0.9 long after the soil at our house is very dry, even deep down, so I don't rely on the FWI as much. The difference might be that the soil at our local Mesonet site is drastically different from the soil at our house, but whatever the reason, I don't find the FYI numbers that helpful for my particular location. YMMV.

    Dawn

    Here is a link that might be useful: Oklahoma Keetch Byram Drought Index Map

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Hi Sheri--It is only one cat who has the flea allergy, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't caused by pesticides. When we got him he was about 7 years old and had the allergy already. He was left behind at an empty house by previous owners who hadn't been taking care of him for some time even before they left, according to the neighbors he was stealing food from their dogs and cats to survive. Then they moved and he stayed at the house for a few months until we moved in and adopted him.

    The allergy does go away when the flea meds work, the problem is that the Frontline Plus doesn't kill the fleas anymore. The Advantage II cleared him up, but the third month I used it he managed to lick it off and had a bad reaction to it, so now I'm afraid to use it on him again.

    I would like to use more natural remedies on him, though. I have researched some but they often contain things like permethrins, clove oil and lemongrass that are toxic to cats. But if you know of something that is safe and works for cats I would be interested in learning about it. He is about 16 years old so I worry about loading him up with pesticides.

    On the diatomaceous earth, do you buy the food-grade stuff? I have heard that is safer if ingested (grooming), but I don't know where to get it except online.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    We have no large trees around us to speak of, but we do have a grove of black locusts along our back fenceline that seem to have been hit hard. A lot of the top branches of the trees look like they died back are just bare. I haven't had a chance to take a closer look yet to see if the whole tree is dead or if it's just at the top. Black locusts are very shallow-rooted trees, so it doesn't surprise me that the wild (unwatered) ones are struggling.

    Among my own shrubs and small trees, I haven't seen any new damage on limbs that have leafed out. Two of my small trees died back to the roots over the winter, so I cut them back to the ground and am babying along a sprout from each that grew up from the roots. The biggest thing I've noticed is that most of my shrubs have not put out a lot of new growth this year, even the established ones. The only shrubs/trees that are really growing well right now are the two Vitex Agnus-Castus trees that I planted last year.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Julie,

    I cannot tell you who might have food grade DE in Oklahoma because I am incredibly far south so do my shopping in Texas. I find it in nurseries in the D-FW metroplex that carry a full line of organic gardening products. I also have ordered it online, gladly paying shipping to get some of the good food-grade stuff. I bought a 5-lb. bag several years ago, put it inside a cat litter bucket with a tight lid, and am still using it.

    I know there is a fairly new organic gardening supply store in OKC because Susan has mentioned it before and suspect they would have food grade DE there, and surely there's at least one place in NE OK that carries organic supplies? You also can find it at feed stores sometimes as a food supplement.

    Heather, I was just noticing yesterday that my chaste tree is in full, glorious bloom and is simply gorgeous right now. It is at least 10 years old and is simply spectacular. It is one of my favorite trees. There's not many summer bloomers that give you that beautiful flower color, and it is incredibly drought-tolerant. Mine didn't even suffer any dieback though the leaves wilted and dropped at times last summer. To look at it now, you'd never know last year was such a hard year.

    Locust trees here do look pretty bad, but I remain surprised by how many trees were not damaged overall. However, every time we have a thunderstorm with high wind, many, many more seemingly healthy trees are coming down this year than usual, and then there's power outages and blocked roadways for the next few hours like what happened overnight here. I suspect they are just weakened by last year's drought and it doesn't take as much wind to break a big limb out of the crown or bring down a whole tree.

    Dawn

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    If you're right about the weakened trees, Dawn, then I dread the next big ice storm! It's going to look like armageddon. I only hope that we don't lose power for days or weeks because of it. :/

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I am surrounded by a bevy of large trees living in one of the older districts in OKC. In fact, the Silver Maple (huge) across the street from me has extreme dieback on 3/4 of the tree this year. The remaining 1/4 is green and growing. However, the tree is obviiously weakened and the next storm we get I am always concerned that the tree will come down. I can't even venture a guess as to how big the girth is on that tree. Silver Maples are not known for their durability anyway. Lots of Elm and Hackberry around me, neither of which are strong trees eitber. If you here a loud "yelp" that appears some distance away, it may be me calling from beneath fallen limbs (or entire trees)!

    I haven't had too many bug issues here in the city so far, but am now beginning to see tiny grasshoppers that will grow into BIG grasshoppers if allowed. I am also having problems with a bug that appears to be some kind of "stem borer", attacking the top part of stems, where they growth is still tender, that then causes the portion of the stem above it to wilt. Of course, it is not entirely devastating because I just pinch off the affected part of the stem and the plant grows two new stems just below. Still it is irritating to see so many of my plants with nodding, wilted tops on them. Grrrrrrr. So far, they are just attacking the ornamentals and not the veggies, but I can't imagine they are that discerning.

    I am having a few issues with the tiny leaf-folding caterpillars on the tomato plants, but so far not a big issue. I just squish them. These may be the beet armyworms, not sure yet.

    I have learned to tolerate some damage to my plants while waiting for the beneficials to show up and do their job. It's when it gets so out of control that I just want to throw up my hands. When you have a butterfly garden, not much you can do except hand pick, use hard sprays of water, and that can be time consuming when one small insect increases a hundredfold (or more) in what seems like a day.

    Susan

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Julie,

    Sorry I haven't been back on here for several days, had company and various things come up. I hope you find this message. I think the DE that I buy at Atwoods is food grade, I do not currently have a bag, so I can't tell you for certain. I picked up a bag at horn seed co last summer I'm going to use now, that it is not food grade-for the yard only. Now, I remember a couple of years ago a discussion on here and someone said that their holistic vet said that DE was very drying on a "dogs" coat, some ppl said they had that problem, some hadn't. I applied some to my dogs coat last summer for the first time, and I did find that it dried their skin and caused it to be flaky, like it sometimes is after a bath, but no worse than that. If I try it this year, I'm going to go with an extremely LIGHT dusting of DE and see if that prevents the problem.

    For your cat you can use Neem shampoo for the fleas, it is all natural and it is actually sold in pill form as a supplement, that a lot of ppl like use. Neem is one of those miraculous plants, that has many benefits and uses. I have used it on 4 week old baby kittens that were infested with fleas, it kills fleas on contact and did not harm the kittens, just do not get it in the eyes.
    When we got our Boston Terrier puppy she had a poor immune system and ended up with puppy mange, and with every trip to the vet it was getting worse and worse, I finally realized all the chemical meds and pesticides were taking a toll on her immune system and thats when I found a holistic pet med site that I ordered a "kit" for her specific problem. The kit was more expensive than buying the herbs myself from the health food store,but worth it within 2 days problem solved- after months and months of vet trips and hundreds of $. After the kit was gone, I knew it would work so I just started the herbs from health food store. I also have a book of holistic remedies by Dr. Martin Zucker, that has been so incredibly helpful, I recommend it to every pet owner. I wish ppl knew the value and usefulness of herbal/holistic remedies vs. other measures. Mine is specific for dogs, but I think he was out for cats also. One more thing on the fleas, the neem also comes in an oil form, but I found the odor of it to be unpleasant, so I used to get the pill form, open the capsules and sprinkle the neem leaves into a small quantity of water, cover it and let it soak overnight, then I would take a cotton ball and dab it onto my dogs coat, just to give them some added protection in between baths, you could probably use a spray bottle if you could filter the neem leaves out. good luck! and sorry so long.

    Dawn,

    well that map reads 493 for us so......not looking to good here. We did get some moisture last night, but rainfall map indicated it wasn't much, since midnight anyway, didn't look at the other map to see how much before midnight. It seems like the Keetch Byram index might be the most accurate and make the most sense to consider. I was a little late in getting most of tomato plants in, and I know I'm not making it 3-4 days in between waterings. top 1 inch seems to be drying out much faster, and with sudden death of 90% of my tomato plants last year, I'm hitting the water pretty hard. Thanks for the link to the scale! I'm going to be watching it this summer.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Sheri,

    You're welcome. Your KBDI was higher than I thought it would be. Wow! Ours had been in the lower 400s too, but the rainfall has brought it down into the 300s. Of course, Tim is still gazing out at the dry wheat fields and saying it is far too dry, but hopefully we'll see some greening up now of the warm-season grasses and wildflowers at least. Last year we had a very wet May, and yet we were having very bad wildfires by the end of June, and I just dread a repeat of that. We need to have regular rainfall in June to keep everything from drying out, and I am not sure we'll have that.

    Thanks for sharing your pet experiences with all of us. I found your story about the natural remedies for the puppy's mange quite helpful. We took in a puppy many years ago who had been infected with mange before he showed up at our house, and the stuff the vet used was very hard on him. The vet warned us the treatment might kill him, and I was relieved it didn't, but back then I didn't even know natural remedies existed for pets. I don't even think we had the internet then so it was hard to get info on stuff like mange if you'd never seen it on your pets before.

    I do use neem oil for various things and find it a great multi-purpose product.

    I hope your tomato plants do well. Some people in our county got hit hard by the hail this week, and one guy Tim ran into at the feed store in town this morning was buying replacement tomato plants for some he said were destroyed by hail. He may not get fruit from them until fall, but you never know---if there is a cool spell when they're blooming, maybe he'll still get fruit set in June or July from plants put into the ground today.

    I haven't watered my tomato plants as much as I should, so I am relieved that we had good rainfall here this week. We had a total of 2.7" over 3 or 4 days. The cracks in the ground mostly have closed up and we have puddles in the driveway. The ponds that were dry before are still dry though. Still, I am grateful for the rain we received. It is doubtful that we'll get enough rain to fill the ponds this summer unless we have one of those massive storms that drops 8 or 10 or 12" in one day. Any way you look at it, I think the summer still will be its usual miserably hot and dry self, but the recent rainfall will keep the plants a little happier a little longer anyway.

    I sometimes see D.E. in yellow bags with either red or blue lettering at Home Depot. It is in the insecticide section, and if a given Home Depot store has an organic section, that's where I find it, usually near other flea and tick yard-type treatments. I haven't checked the bags in the store, though, to see if that particular brand carried by HD is food grade.

    Dawn

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Dawn,
    This is very interesting phenomena. A group at Princeton Uni started an ecology project on continental drought and tree mortality (linked below), I am also one of the participant. We are setting up an integrated observation system (Flux, Phenocam, COSMOS, C02, H20, CH4, N20, Hypersepctral, Thermal sensors at El Reno, Marena test beds to study the impact the climate on the productivity. I just wonder how best we can involve the citizen science and integrate their long-term field knowledge (experience). Your experience and observation on the Delayed Drought Damage on Trees and Shrubs would be one of the great example. You and interested folks, Please let me know if you have ideas-Chandra

    Here is a link that might be useful: An open-source ecology project on continental drought and tree mortality