I believe there is a significant amount of crossing possible and some people take measures to isolats plants (i.e. mesh netting screens, tule bags, etc). I hear the only way to ensure purity is plants them 500 feet away from each other. Or it is 500 yards? lol.

However, saying not to save seed at all is a bold statement. I wouldn't bank on everything coming true, especially if you grow only one plant from a saved seed. However, unless you are a commercial seed seller, have fun and try saving it. There is a tremendous amount of time needed to save pure seed if you are growing 50+ types of hot peppers.

Chris

I dont know what happened to my reply. so i will do it again.

i dont have time or am educated on bagging blossoms. So i will just have to wait and order seeds everytime i run out.
Thanks for your reply. i didnt know that peppers cross so easily.
Michelle

Do you have friends that would grow one plant in a pot ??

Actually that is a great idea. I will do that. My neighbor is far enough away and they would have no problem with that.
thanks.

Would one plant provide enough genetic diversity?

Peppers have perfect flowers, meaning male/female within same flower that provide self-pollination.
Most pollination therefore comes from simple mechanical means (wind).
Thus most seeds of any given pepper plant will be true to stock (I'm not considering hybrids here).
This isn't to say there won't be some cross pollination due to insects and such, but it is actually less common than most think.
As Chris stated above, unless you are trying to save a rare seed or are a commercial seed seller, save some seeds and have fun.
Grow several of each variety, and don't save seed from any that are obvious crosses (should be less than 10% of total).

-CC

I lived in zone 9a before and have crossed peppers with out bagging the flowers.Outcrossing in North America is 5-25%.If you save seeds from hybrids they wont look like the plant you grew that year;Infact, they may look much different.Peppers are inbreeders they don't need genetic diversity, they are pretty much clones of each other. if you want to test how much outcrossing you have in your area, plant purle colored bells.If the purple color have outcrossing. If your red fruited plant remain red no outcrossing has occured.

I will have to bag the plant to save the seed. I wanted to save my seeds so....

Cover blossom with cheese cloth on the one you want to be pure. Try some with out and see if they look true.good luck

Bag the blossoms of the pods you wish to save.

Paul B.

I know it sounds stupid but daaaaaa.... Thank you guys. I realize now that i can just bag a few blossoms. And save those seeds. Think outside the box, Michelle.....

:)

Be sure you bag them before the blossoms open.

Oops...sorry John...I should have stated BUDS. :)

Paul B.

> Most pollination therefore comes from simple mechanical means (wind).

Just curious... are there studies to back this up?

jt

Not wind according to this--scroll down to the pollination section

Here is a link that might be useful: pollination

jt

My guess if it's wind pollenation, the flower would need an extended stamen, like Matts Wild Cherry tomato

LB

Thanks John... a great link. I found "Improving The Yield" quite interesting. Don't agree with everything on that page though. And to be fair... I've seen web sites that agree with cravincapsaicin even though don't remember any supporting evidence.

LB,

Are you still bagging with your old pantyhose? Hope you are feeling well and to see you at Open Fields again this year.

jt

jt

Still using panty hose Some folks couldn't make it work

Hoping for OF at the moment a tab iffy

lb

I agree w/ Byron regarding wind pollination.
I believe insects play a larger role.

Paul B.

Not wind according to this--scroll down to the pollination section

Here is a link that might be useful: pollination

John47,
I thnk you misinterpreted the above link.
A high rate of cross-pollination is not associated with wind. However, self-pollination is.

I apologize if my post was misleading. Cross-pollination is common in peppers, as high as 30% in some reports, although other studies have shown more like 5%. My point was, for the home gardner it tends to be overstated.
Even if you assume a very high rate of 30% crossing, 7 out of 10 seeds harvested will be "parental". If some care is taken and a lower rate of crossing of say 5% is likely, then 95 out of 100 seeds will be of parental genotype.

A little observation can weed out the obvious hybrids, and a consistent stock is obtainable.
Certainly bagging blossoms is an even easier method of preventing cross-pollination, and isolation is essential for commercial growers, but my point was simply that MOST seeds collected by home enthusiasts, even with no precautions taken, will be of parental stock.

I worry that many would-be seed savers are frightened away by the thought that it is difficult to maintain true stocks, when in reality it isn't.

Here is a link that might be useful: POLLINATION AND WHAT IT MEANS TO THE GARDEN

Peppers do not require insects to pollinate. The wind pollination idea sounds perfectly plausible to me. I'm growing about 30 pepper seedlings in my living room under lights and the flowers are growing healthy looking pods. The only pollinating assistance that these peppers get that I know of is shaken a little bit when I bump the rack, or in some cases I jiggle the pot.

In your yard, I'm sure that peppers all get their own pollen. I don't know what happens when a flower gets its own pollen and also gets visited by insect laden with the pollen of another plant.

murky, you bring up a good point.
The female parts of many flowers contain many "ovaries".
Thus when a flower is pollinated, each seed that subsequently forms is the product of a different "fertilization".
i.e. within a single pepper pod whose flower was self-pollinated (wind, rain, dogs' tail) and also cross-pollinated (transferred by an insect for instance) there would be some "pure" seeds and some hybrids.

I just realized another point of potential confusion.
When I originally stated that Most pollination therefore comes from simple mechanical means (wind), I was not referring to the wind carrying pollen from one flower to another. I was referring to physical means by which pollen is caused to be released from the male stamens (anthers to be precise). Rain works too, as would an animal physically "bumping" the flower. This is the means by which most pollination occurs with "perfect" plants.

cravincapsaicin
If you look at the studies DeWitt cites, you will see that there is a lot MORE cross pollination by insects than you would think.

John

Just a little different point of view. What is your time worth? Unless you're are saving seed for purely scientific research, you can buy a lot of packs of new seed each year for the expense of the netting and the time you spend doing it.
John

jt

If you are refering to the Odland/Porter study at UCONN,
(listed in the Pepper Garden)

This was done in the late 30's before 1/2 the bee populations were killed by pesticides..

I have seen one study that 5ft spacing was enough, BUT every possible seed was not grown, therefore the result is not 100% positive

I am with JohnT about purity, Nothing worse than a small space gardener growing out 6 cross bred plants, in a short growing season.

Byron

Interesting dialogue here....but the possibility of wind pollenation and the resultant cross pollenation is still a point waiting for more experimentation! There is always a question of near parthenogenisis to consider! Two year ago I grew a c. chinense variety called Christmas Chinense that produced blossums that were already impregnated as they opened! Any attempt to alter the process by crossing was moot!
Tom Stone

john47,
I feel like Cliff and Norm trying to "high-five" during a Cheers episode. I don't think we are really that much in disagreement.

I agree that there is a high degree of cross-pollination possible with peppers (~30%), AND that this is predominantly due to insects.
However, my initial point is still valid, MOST pollination is NOT by insects when dealing with a perfect flower. The fact that cross-pollination is not usually associated with wind "blowing the pollen" to a different pepper plant (rather it is due to mechanical "shaking/dislodging" of the pollen) would seem to confirm this. This is why bagging is a very effective (but not 100%) means of preventing cross-pollination with peppers-it keeps out the "bugs".
Pollen grains are so tiny that if wind-induced cross-pollination were a major factor then bagging would be pointless as the grains of pollen could easily pass between the threads of cheesecloth or nylons. That would leave isolation as the only effective means of preventing cross-pollination, and for most home gardening enthusiasts this would be unreasonable (5oo yds between like crops).
Having grown tomatoes and peppers for about 20 tears now, I can attest that with some basic precautions (bagging) a home gardening enthusiast can grow multiple varieties in close proximity and still maintain a pure stock.
And for self-use, even bagging is largely unnecessary, as most (~70-90%) seeds will be of parental stock anyways.

I didn't mean to start a debate.
I only wanted to reassure those that are considering saving tomato/pepper seeds that it isn't that difficult to do.

Tom,
LOL, parthenogenesis!
I think all I'll say is it is quite rare and isn't an efficient method of propagating peppers for the home enthusiast.
Is the Chinense you spoke of known to be prone to parthenogenesis?

-CC