Maybe check to see if one of their legs is shorter than the other. That might affect their topographic perspective.

Absolutely. Unless the slope is aimed in the direction
of the residence and flooding the basement it's a non issue to most.
Just as, until the perimeter is measured
& marked they tend to believe that they own quite a bit
of what in reality is their neighbors yard.

LinLee

Actually Mich, no......most people are clueless about slope and your trained eye can pick up on it when theirs don't see it. When I first moved to our property, it struck me as reasonably level. When we first started to erect our g'house structures we hired a contractor/heavy equipment operator to eyeball our sites and we let him rip. We built the business in stages, so the g'houses didn't go in all at the same time. It was a scream when we saw the retaining walls we needed to build right into our first structure, the change in ground water run-off aimed at our house. Each structure was an additional enlightenment.

What appeared to be a reasonably level acreage, with a gentle slope to the "back forty" is now a really neat hodgepodge of retaining walls and terraces. I'm actually happy now it worked out that way, because it's a natural for garden rooms and makes our landscaping very interesting. I consider it to be an asset now, and not a liability.

Your clients don't know what they are missing. I get it in my business as well. It's low thirties here today. A customer came to pick up poinsettias for her church. She grabbed her vehicle keys and headed for the trunck in which she was going to stick them. I'm glad I caught her before they turned to mush, and yes, I'd have gotten a call to replace the "nasty" product. It's all inherent in this business. LOL. Did I tell you about the guy who bought a bunch of trees at one place I worked, dug little holes and planted them, and then poured concrete around their trunks? Yes, he did want them replaced. rofl.

JB: Hi my name is Junior Balloon and I suffer from Chistopher Columbus syndrome.

Group: Welcome Mr Balloon.

I am in the middle of building a greenhouse and when I had the area leveled, what I thought was a pretty level area, proved to be 18 inches higher on one side. This is 18 inches over 60 feet. I will be using a stone, dry stacked retaining wall on the high side.

It didn't stop the project, but I did have to scramble the plans a bit to accomodate this slopage. And I was quite surprised at the amount of difference and the amount of dirt that was removed. Luckily I have a place where the fill can go.

Your ex-customer has an additional problem. An aversion to retaining walls. This may be caused by having been bitten by gypsy landscapers when he was young.

JB

"It is extremely obvious to me that there lies a 2 : 1 slope directly infront of me( as I hold on to a tree root to keep from falling down the hill ) but yet a homeowner sees this area as flat."

This sounds like a pretty significant slope, not 18" in 60' feet, more like 18" in 3' ! (or hyperbole?)

All roads lead to China. If you include a Feng Shui (pronounced shway) consultation into your first meeting you can do away with reason completely. Explain about the bad energy (chi) and the effects on prosperity (a killer) and longevity (a size thing) and off you go. I am surprized that you cannot grasp that blarney beats all.
Designer: "Watch your step here, there is a change in chi levels."
Client: "Oh wow, and to think I never noticed before."
Designer: "Just sign here."
Client: "Sure."

Gotta love it, Ink.

Once you convince them to build the walls, the next thing is to convince them that 7,200 SF of bit. conc. tennis court puts out some serious runoff and that a drainage system is needed. Feel the Chi!

I am now thoroughly convinced that I am going to become a fung goo shaaaaway duhsigner.

No more silly grading problems
No more pesky erosion challenges
Just easy peasy 'proporous energy' , right into my 'well balanced' bank account.

Now all I got to do is find me some red envelopes.
I hear that is what your suppose to hand your 'good energy' invoices in.

Chaa Ching Chi.

Feng Shui is out, Kabbalah is in. Figure out a way to get mysticism into landscaping, and the big bucks will follow.

I usually can tell from the title what the thread is going to be about, but this one stumped me (Keeping Syphilis Out Of The Garden??!?).

Actually, to convince unbelievers of the existence of slopes, you could carry one of these when calling on customers (they make nifty little pocket models too).

I hate to be argumentative Cady (tee hee) but according to the wise men (could be women) at Amazon the next big thing is wabi sabi. As nobody seems able to explain exactly what this is, apart from the fact that it comes from Japan, I see it as a real winner and a chance for Michelle to get in on the ground floor, as it were.
Failing that a ouiji board might work better. What you do is set the board up with the client down hill, you place the glass in the middle and connect with the "other side" (a couple of marguerita's might help with this.) If you ask the appropriate questions the glass will naturally gravitate towards the client. If he is scared by this contact with the dead get him to raise his side of the board, if you put a ruler on this you will have an accurate measurement of the fall x the width of the board. All it needs is a bit of imagination "keep the spirits away with a retaining wall" might look good under your David statue.

You can complain all you want, but remember its your choice not to wear your copper braclet, magnetic waistband and carry your crystals.

Hey, Michelle-
Wish I weren't so pedantic and practical-minded sometimes, but . . . coming off Eric's humorous link, how about actually using a surveyor's laser beam to show how the grade slopes? My daughter's boyfriend surveyed our property last weekend as part of his LD certificate coursework. He used a laser level - very cool. It could help people clearly see the grade changes on their property.
G.

and people wonder why houses slide off of cliffs in california.

Another option is to set a few dozen 4x4's and build a 'raised tennis court' hehe if nothing else it could be interesting.

Spiritually, I have a Tao Jones...
feel the power of Tao, explain to customers, that the brambles are pretty and pruning is going against nature. I'll offer a reduced rate ($60 an hour) to tell the customer everything is perfect already.

dp

INK,
Wabi-Sabi is the Japanese predecessor of Shabby Chic. Now you just beat up an old table and plop it just slightly off center in your garden, plunk a "rustic" bamboo vase filled with dead, dried Equisetum on it, and "Viola!" ... Wabi-Sabi!

if u beat up an old table tennis table and plop it into ur garden, will that count for the tennis court AND Wabi-Sabi?

froggy

It will no doubtedly surprise the friendly folks here that I am very level headed out in the field when on a job site.
Armed and dangerous on a daily basis I carry my handy dandy pocket level in my carry all and when I need additional leverage I have three other levels : 2 laser and one 4 point David White Transit.

What really confirmed my Christopher Columbus diagnosis is that on the previous day my partner and I staked out the 4 corners ( as in hammered in 4 large upright wooden stakes) of the 60 by 120 tennis court.

Maybe a laser level light show would have helped in this case... but I dun't tink so.
Maybe laser eye surgery though.

So, translate Mich. Does that mean you decided to take this one on? Have you convinced them they love the terraced look? I don't see you "doing it their way". Enlighten, please.

Translation : The 'job' did not take me.
Basically in the words of Donald Trump : You're Fired. .. sort of. .. well the job was anyways.
After quite a few meetings ( inwhich I have not added it all up for invoicing yet ) with the property owner, meetings with his architect ( client originally wanted a custom gazebo for use as a gym ) then decided to go with a prefab 20x20, then 15x15, and then ultimately decided not to do one at all , on site time with my partner to shoot the elevations and stake out the corners of the various options he was exploring such as :
1. a sports court 35 x70
2. multi terraces for a sports court and gym
3 a tennis court
4 a tennis court with upper overlooking gazebo/ gym
5 expansion of existing paddle board court to a new sports court size

and time to do all the cross section elevations of the various cuts, calc the amounts of cut and fill ( required info for the city in order to gain permission for the permit ) and layout the half dozen or so preliminary design concepts.

I knew the job was in trouble when at the 2nd to last meeting started to inquire about the costs of keystone type walls vs. the type of stone walls that already existed in great lengths on the property.
On a estate such as this , one doesn't use keystone retaining walls around a high ticket item such as a tennis court and terraced entertainment area , it would devalutate the property rather than enhance it.
In the end - the homeowner decided to replace the decomposed granite in the existing paddle board court with a poured concrete surface.

Lots of exploratory work for.... well, I won't say for nothing , but if the client listened to what I call " The Ugly Number $$" from the beginning he probably wouldn't be handed 3 different invoices from 3 different consultants .

Moral of the story. State that ugly number loud and clear and often. Get it out of the way and make sure they understand it.

Moral of the story. State that ugly number loud and clear and often. Get it out of the way and make sure they understand it.

... And make sure they PAY it.

" The Ugly Number " , now that's definitely a worthy topic to discuss.
At what point does one bring up " The Ugly Number ",
How to read your client so that you don't blow the possibility of the job by blurting out the " ugly number " too soon or without enough information to really have all the ' ugly number facts'.

Yes, the " Ugly Number ' is a totally worthy topic to explore .
The " when " do you drop the Ugly Number ?
The " how " do you drop the Ugly Number ?
How much of the Ugly Number do you quote ?

It's an ugly subject but all important to the profession.

I've been known to play a little hoop here and there, and keep a basketball in the truck for such an occasion. As luck would have it, there's been more than once when a site visit to discuss topography and slope...(slope?...what slope?...this lot is dead level)...succumbed to a demonstration.

See the basket ball...see me put it on the ground gently...see the ball roll...roll ball, roll...now fetch the nice ball. Let me now explain this phenomenon....

When you explain, I hope you make clear the gravity of the situation.