could you re-phrase that ..

>http://us.st8.yimg.com/store4.yimg.com/I/wickedcoolstuff_1778_243296083melanie

Let's try that again--but as a LINK this time--since ti won't let me post it in the BODY...

melanie

Here is a link that might be useful: Tony...

Huh?

An garden arbor is a generic something that you can pass under and if big enough - not just above a gate - provide shade. A trellis is a simple vertical construction. A pergola is one of those really shady tunnel arbors made of latticework.

All of the above usually have vines growing on them - that's the whole point, isn't it?

If you're thinking of building a long white wooden grape arbor as was so popular centuries ago, I would pose a question. How do you think those arbors were repaired, tended and re-painted while hosting mature, gnarled, outstretched vines... Hmmm?

Thank you Melanie. I was hoping I wasn't the only one confused.

I'm thinking that the original purpose of the trellis/arbor/pergola was to maximize the efficient use of space by giving vining/climbing plants support while retaining the use of the space underneath.
Still a practical reason to build one today.
Jo

I am sorry I confused you all, it won't happen again.

But Tony, honey, what DID you mean? We are all intrigued now!

Can you elucidate?

melanie

It would be pedantic to go into precise definitions of these structures (something any dictionary will readily supply), but I do find it curious that our writers, from Spenser to Joyce, seem to prefer the term "bower" to arbor (or "herber", its more ancient form), as Byron does in this well-known stanza:

"XCIV

He pored upon the leaves, and on the flowers,
And heard a voice in all the winds; and then
He thought of wood-nymphs and immortal bowers,
And how the goddesses came down to men:
He miss'd the pathway, he forgot the hours,
And when he look'd upon his watch again,
He found how much old Time had been a winner --
He also found that he had lost his dinner."

Thank you, JohnD, for the literary interlude. And, even closer to home, American antiquarian Alice Morse Earle in Old Time Gardens, published 1901, notes that "arbor" was a newer form of the word "herber". She said that an arbor could be square or round but was domed at the top. A bower was a long arched way. The bower was an old fashioned word even in her time, but in the South it kept its old meaning, especially rose bowers.

Earle was widely read and an indefatigable student of American material culture, including that of gardens. She is a pretty reliable source.

It was not to study etymology that I posted my ill worded query, it was a continuation of a theme I had started on another thread.
There are items or elements that we use in our gardens and talk about here on the gw that have a history. I believe that if we look at the thing, arbour for instance, and not just the word it will help in the restoration of gardens and in the making of new ones. So, in true "form follows function" mode, if we know the intention behind an arbour we are better placed to use it appropriately. This does not mean that we have to follow like sheep but if we are going to ignore the fact that an arbour did the same job as a swing seat and canopy and have an arbour anyway we will understand the reason why.
I hope this makes it clearer, even make sense.

As an aside: Byron uses bower (immortal bower) to mean something totally different from the way we would use it to mean an arbour in the garden.

Byron deliberately plays with the different meanings of "bower" (he even manages to squeeze in a bower anchor).

John Skelton (in the The Garlande of Laurell), does talk about an "herber":

". . . .
In an herber I saw, brought where I was,
There birds on the briar sang on every side . . . .

I love abors ,and that is a concept that has been around much longer than even the pink birdies/with swings -marveous invention"[Arbors with swings-not pink birdies with swings-but who knows that might work too ,if increased >>>.I just think they shouldnt be put necessarily at the garden entrance-in all cases-to each his own and maybe placed at an angle to where it isnt evident as an arbor until you are are right upon it.dont be afraid to put your arbor where and how you want it to be, and use the material you wish to create it .Almost every concept imaginable has been concieved by someone prior to you and if you are restoring an old artists garden follow as true as possible to his or her plans,however if a garden "of sorts" has resulted from different plants being added at different times by assorted individuals -even if the results are some what becoming ,dont be afraid to go start ripping things out and moving it to a place of your choice or replacing and restructuring your garden your own way.We must all use these concepts -layed down,by the expanse of the ages-and the concept that, there is nothing new under the sun.The outdoor kitchen might be conceved by some as a new ideal-but in earilier generations cooking was generally done outdoors -then occupied a building all its own ,before being incorperated into the main house now we are dividing it and do most cooking out when weather and time available permits especially related to any large gatherings, we may have.I enjoy individuality-not just putting everything where and how everyone else does it.Or going to someones place and seeing the most beautiful garden you think you have ever seen and trying to recreate it on your own dirt.It is a compliment to take 1 or even 2 concepts from someone else and and add to or take off a little and make it your own,and give them the praise for their conception when asked ,where did you ever come up with that.But I would dread the day that a friend would come into my garden and say-I see you have seen Joys garden too-I thought it was pretty also -she shared some rose cuttings and iris rh. with me too, but I put them in a different place in my garden and I really liked her arbor ,and am having DH build a simular one ,but Im putting it on the other side of my yard.And Ive got other ideals rattling around in the back of my brain-that I have just got to try out -maybe at the bottom of that little hill-or in the left side yard.Yes an arbor is an arbor and an outdoors kitchen is what it is ,but it can be put where you want it and be designed in your head and that Japanese maple can live where you like -shade requirements ,ect.considered.Whats going to happen to you if you should decide to put that arbor ,in an unacustomed place -are the garden patrol going to arrest you and haul you off to garderners prison-or maybe there really is a gardeners Hell,all unconventional gardeners will all go to,it hasnt become that bad has it ?Or am I ,20 years behind time and really uninformed.

"He found how much old Time had been a winner --
He also found that he had lost his dinner."

John-
Did Byron really write this? Didn't realize he had a sense of humor!
G.

Ginger:
He really wrote this. He snuck lots of funny dinner references into Don Juan. My favorite is:

"Their table was a board to tempt even ghosts
To pass the Styx for more substantial feasts.
I will not dwell upon rago?ts or roasts,
Albeit all human history attests
That happiness for man -- the hungry sinner! --
Since Eve ate apples, much depends on dinner. "

But I also like

"Most epic poets plunge "in medias res"[3]
(Horace makes this the heroic turnpike road),
And then your hero tells, whene'er you please,
What went before -- by way of episode,
While seated after dinner at his ease,
Beside his mistress in some soft abode,
Palace, or garden, paradise, or cavern,
Which serves the happy couple for a tavern. "

Darn. Was distracted by Don Juan's adventures. What I really meant to say is that I like my arbors in traditional settings.

I've linked a couple of pics of two my arbors.

Here is a link that might be useful: My arbors

Here we go again. Not only are we now diverted from the original question but also from any meaningful discussion about Byron or his poetry. I will say with certainty that John has no idea what the quotations posited mean.
Oh! and BTW this is the way it always goes so I won't be posting again.

The setting of arbor#1 is concealing,and secretive-appears to be enclosed in a small romatic area-delightful,and not totally traditional in my concept-though it may be to you.Am not trying to find contention with anyone .The second arbors pic does not reveal its general placement ,only that it is crowned with lots of plantables-and is also pretty-Put arbors where you want them-which is apparently what ,you have chosen to do,and keep an open mind to the placement of others choosing-which could also be desirable -we should all study each other -and then not be afraid to choose for ourselves.I never pass up the opportunity to deave into any book or garden article I encounter -and find glory in the creations of anyones beautiful gardens and the opportunity of exploring it.Still I strongly refrain from going and digging out that book or magazine or going by for another look, and trying to recreate the image of that creation that I drooled over.Sorry if youve have missed my point .But who would want to do the Mona Lisa again-and then dare to pass it off as their own-doesnt stop anyone from creating a Lisas Mona of their own creation and their own style and claiming the artistic endeaver as their very own.Sorry if the drift is contrary to any others concept-but diversity is the fabric of life.To become or remain on friendly terms must we strictly reflect the other persons opinion and offer none of our own . Realizing opinions are cheap ,but we all have our own,so to add interest to an otherwise boring world ,should we refrain from uttering them.Harmony does not idenitify with lose of individual conceptualization. Must we measure our own artistic value ,in the concept of weighing ,against anothers, as to wheither it is greater than or less than someones creation-to validate the merit of our endevors.

Come on, Tony. Don't take your ball and bat and go home. You always get people talking about the most interesting topics. I admit I got off-track; but where else can you get into a brief exchange about Lord Byron's food references?? Forgive us . . . !!

Hang in there, please - the thread is back on-topic.

Ginger