You need maybe three times the plots you now have. Go luck,never-give-up.

"but would cost a fortune to do what I need."

so w/o giving any clues....what is it that YOU need?

We need to be able to provide food not only to eat through the summer and fall, but to can enough for the winter. It would be best if we could get enough harvest to take us to the next years garden. My mom did it when we were kids, but she passed away so I can't ask her for advice. My job was to tend the animals and weed for her and had too much work of my own to do to learn what she did as well. All I really remember is that she had a conventional style garden and no money for fancy stuff and neither do I. The garden wasn't huge, but there was always a cellar full of canned goods.

You could plant high yielding crops like cukes, summer squash, tomatoes and pole beans, just off the top of my head. I suppose the size of your garden and what you like to eat would have alot to do with it.
h.

We just had sauce from tomatoes frozen last summer. So to answer your question, yea I would say you are way off.

This forum has enuff info for you to decide for yourself. Just use the Search feature on the 1st page. As mentioned above it's impossible to answer w/o ANY clues at all, eh!!

BTW canning is a lot of work esp. when it comes all at once.

Good Luck,
Gumby_CT -who thinks -"Life consist of a series of choices"

Gumby_CT Let me see if I can clarify. I would like to get enough yield from everything to last through the winter like my mom did. She canned or froze everything possible and she did not have a huge garden. There was more than enough vegetables for a family of 5 to get us to the next garden. If it wasn't in the freezer or cellar we didn't eat it. I would like to do the same and only suppliment it with fresh salad or whatever you can't put up.

I did search and if I want to know how many summer squash can grow in a square it is there. I couldn't find anything that would tell me if you could get more food than what you could eat as it grows.

From what I have been reading sfg gives you more yield per square foot, but it seems like I'd have to have a monster garden to get the amount of vegetables my mom did on her small plot. The initial start up costs seem cost prohibitive to be able to do what I need. I have never seen a garden like this or talked to someone that had one, so this seemed like the place to go for answers.

Why would you need a monster garden to get the same harvest as your mother did with a small garden? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Sq Ft Gardening does indeed provide more yield per square foot of gardening space than traditional row gardening does, there is no debate at all on that point.

Maybe your mother was practicing some form of intensive gardening and that's why she got so much yield from a small gardening. Sq Ft Gardening is simply a modern take on an ancient practice with a few unique twists to it. Today all forms of growing a ton of stuff in a very small area are generically referred to as 'intensive' gardening methods.

Anyway, I can't help you get the yield you want as I have no idea how many tomatos or peppers or peas or anything else you believe you will need, but in general you will get more yield from the same space if you use intensive gardening practices. That simply means highly fertile soil with excellent drainage and water retaining properties and very close plant spacing.

If you don't wish to follow the Sq Ft method to the letter, that's fine. Many of us on this forum deviate from the official method in some ways while others follow it to the letter.

If purchasing wood and vermiculite seem cost prohibitive, don't purchase either. Mound up some topsoil and well aged manure and compost and plant. Manure and compost can often be had for free if you can haul it.

Many ways to garden, but there is no question that highly productive soils will support much closer plant spacing which produces much higher yields per unit of space (tho not necessarily per plant).

never_give_up, here is what I estimated to need to supply a single person for a year, including canning, freezing, and drying. Basically I estimated what I eat in a week, and multiplied by 52. I'd still need to supplement some things though (no asparagus, peppers, or melons in the list!), and I'd have to take a vacation in the summer just to can and store everything. :D

It works out to 16 boxes, I say one 4x4 plot for carrots, but what I really mean is 16 squares spread out.

Note that this is just an estimate, I was daydreaming one day about how much garden space I could use up. I am not an experienced gardener so I can't be held responsible if you only plant 16 boxes and starve in the winter. :D Your climate is different as well, so you'd probably need more space to get similar yields, especially in the winter.
* One entire 4x4 plot devoted to carrots
o Spring and fall harvest
* One entire 4x4 plot devoted to lettuce/spinach/chard/mustard.
o Spring and fall planting
* Tomatoes/herbs
o 8 to Tomato plants
o Herbs: 4 to basil, 2 to garlic, 2 to parsley
* Beans/peans
o Beans: 4 squares
o Peas: 4 squares (spring and fall planting)
o Sweet potato: 8 squares
* One entire plot devoted to onions (bulb and green)
* One entire plot devoted to potatoes
* One entire plot devoted to cauliflower
* One entire plot devoted to broccoli
* One entire plot devoted to cabbage + beets
* One entire plot devoted to turnips + parsnips
* 'Sweet' herbs - mint, stevia, lemon thyme, bee balm, lavender
* Trellised zucchini + squash
o Share with radish
* Trellised eggplant
o Share with lettuce
* Trellised cucumber
o Shared with celery, lettuce
* Fruit
o Blueberry bush, currants, strawberries, raspberries
* Italian herbs
o Sage, rosemary, cilantro, oregano, chives, thyme, dill

Good Luck,
Gumby_CT

Thank you for all the information. You have given me a lot of food for thought.

Justaguy2 What are other methods of intensive gardening called? Maybe I could try comparison planting. I know that I have much to learn and am glad I found gardenweb a few weeks ago. I have learned alot from you already!

Justaguy2 What are other methods of intensive gardening called?

French Intensive is one that gets some talk these days. It is a lot of work. Some consider it the forerunner of the modern techniques.

Ed Smith wrote an organic gardening book called 'The Vegetable Gardener's bible' in which he describes his method he calls 'W-O-R-D'. That stands for Wide rows, Organic methods, Raised beds, Deep soil. I have read it and recommend it, but the 'deep soil' part calls for double digging the ground and I am not interested in that in my clay/rock soil. A good book to read though.

There is also container gardening which almost by definition is intensive gardening. There are some real quality containers on the market these days for growing veggies such as the EarthBox or Gardener Supply self watering container. The spacing used in these containers is on par with and sometimes even closer than what Sq Ft methods use.

Hope this helps some.

Communication is a lost art in America. We know one language and have so much trouble with it.

I often have trouble with communication since I assume nothing. While others have trouble because they assume everything or things that are not mentioned. What is obvious to you, may not be obvious to the reader. Make sense?

-- Let me see if I can clarify. I would like to get enough yield from everything to last through the winter like my mom did.
"everything"??

--She canned or froze everything possible and she did not have a huge garden.
"everything"??

--From what I have been reading sfg gives you more yield per square foot, but it seems like I'd have to have a monster garden to get the amount of vegetables my mom did on her small plot.
What ??
Could she have been square footin?
What did mom grow? In how much space? Help us help you!!

So far I got 2 clues from that clarification, 5 people (assumption made) and summer squash. You could probably get enough from 2 plants but I don't think squash is recommended for freezing (it turns to mush) and not sure about canning. Is squash is something you'd like to grow?

You NEVER mention what she grew or how much room she had. More importantly you never even mention how much room you have or what it is you would like to grow? Those 2 things, I think, are most relevant to answer your question.

I would have to say, if your space is limited AND you are trying to feed the neighborhood, maybe a farm is your best option. But then a farm requires space & equipment too, as in NOT cheap.

I will 2nd 'The Vegetable Gardener's bible'. I picked it up from the library (due back tomorrow) and I haven't had time to read it but it does look excellent from what I have scanned.

Mel's old book (1981) I think offers some good info regardless of what gardening style YOU choose and very cheap used from Amazon or go to library. The old book also gives ideas for cooking, canning, or freezing. I personally do NOT recommend Mel's newest book (library also) as it appears to be riddled with tpyos or misinformation. This can be quite confusing to a new gardener.

Reading about gardening is something I would rather do over the winter.

HTH,
Gumby_CT - "Say what you mean, mean what you say".

Here is a link that might be useful: The Official Site of Square Foot Gardening

Thank you for the additional information. Being new to this forum I wasn't sure if there was a limit to how much information/space I could take up and "everything" takes a lot of space.

By everything possible: I mean everything she could get her hands on, period. Either from her own garden, what she was given or traded for.

Beans, beets, beet greens, broccoli, brussel sprouts, cabbage, corn, cucumbers, lettuces, peas, melons, onions, carrots, peppers, potatoes, rutabagas, summer and winter squashes, spinach, swiss chard, tomatoes were basics. Things like lettuce that couldn't be stored, we went without until the next year.

She canned/froze vegetables, fruits, made a wide variety of pickles and relishes. Jellys and Jams. Made sauerkraut. She made a root cellar in the basement for potatoes and other root crops. This is my eventual goal.

I can't tell you the square footage of her garden as it was one plot that varied in size according to the amount of money she could scrounge up for seed and such. Also some things were grown elsewhere, such as the manure pile. The work was long and hard. We didn't have running water or a bathroom until after the 3rd baby was born. We had a small farm and ate what we could grow or catch fishing or hunting. So as for the hard part I know what I am getting myself into. Been there, done that.

In my case, I am not as bad off as we were then, but I don't have a lot of money either. What I do have is the same drive and determination she had. I have cleared some land but my soil is rocky crap, so to get a garden is going to require a lot of work, time and most likely money. That is why I am trying to figure out how to get as much as possible out of every inch of ground as soon as possible. I was hoping to do the best I could this year and just keep adding on.

I apologize if my ability to communicate is lacking. There isn't anything I can do about that as I have MS and it is attacking my mind in a way that is quite similar to alzhiemer (spelling?). I know what I want to say in my head, but that isn't always what comes out. I may think it makes sense, but it may be complete gibberish to the person I am communicating with. So please bear with me. Having MS also makes getting this set up as quickly as possible more urgent. (Yes, I am also working the handicapped issue into the design.)

Very quickly I will say it sounds like SFG "is for you" and hope others will chime in as to how and what I mean.

--hoping to do the best I could this year and just keep adding on.
That is the best way, I think, start small, add more when you can and make the necessary changes/improvemnts each year.

I am a firm believer in using what you have on hand to keep the COG (Cost of Gardening) down. I have many posts on here describing some things I have done.

BTW - your speeling has been just fine, ;-)

Good Luck,
Gumby_CT

I also think SFG is for you. You can save a lot of money by skipping all the ingredients to the mix and using just compost. If you can swing it the sphagnum peat is a nice addition as it doesn't decompose as quickly.

Nothing wrong with making half the mix a decent topsoil either, it just means more weeds for awhile.

You can scrounge up wood or bricks or whatever for frames. You can also just mound the soil. That makes for a bit more work maintaining the mound, but it's free.

Really the central idea behind SQ Ft gardening is do everything you reasonably can to make the growing soil perfect and then that soil can support very close plant spacing so you get as much as possible from any space you have to work with.

Everything else is optional.

Never-Give-Up,

Is it possible for you to just try a smaller garden for your first season? This could help you find your answers and possibly help you figure out the best locations for certain crops. Or just plain arrangement of planting which plants where to avoid blocking sun to other plants?

I just think it may be rather ambitious to grow enough to feed the family at your first go around solo. Look at what your family likes to eat and perhaps throw in a couple of new veggies or fruits for variety and to see if you like them or like growing them.

It may be more cost effective this way, so you're not making a big initial investment. You'll learn sources for seeds, or maybe what you grow this year, you can seed save and then instead of purchasing the same seeds next year, apply those funds towards other seeds.

There are benefits to starting small and then building on that over time. Consider nature, from very small seeds we get very large plants with time and patience.

Thanks everyone. I have learned more in a week from all of you than I did from just searching the web for a month of Sundays. This forum is awesome. I have been looking up stuff to the point of obsession, this is all very addicting. lol

Over the next year I will do my homework on sfg, as reading what you have had to say about it makes me believe it is the way to go.

I think I will start a loose leaf binder and break it down in categories and then in on individual vegetables, etc., so I can keep track of what I learn. I have alot of scrounging to do, but maybe by next spring I will have a good plan. I have already started using some of your ideas and look forward to reading your opinions in the future.

never-give-up, best of luck! My grandfather gardened a lot like your mother did. He fed his extended family and many neighbors from a large garden. He also raised cattle & chickens and did a lot of bartering. My grandparents planted a number of fruit trees and grape vines. Some of my earliest memories are helping him plant tomatoes and then helping my grandmother can them. She canned, preserved and froze food to get them through the winter. And it supplemented our family, too.

When I got married and we bought our first place I wanted him to tell me what to do as far as varieties, planting, how much to plant, etc. His advice to me was, "just keep planting." What he meant was that my area was different from his. Our food needs were different from his, etc. What worked for him would not necessarily work for me.

I concur with what someone else said about not starting too large this first year. I've "just kept planting", for 30 years now and continue to learn every year. This year we finally have our garden laid out the way I think it will work best for us. There are 10 4'x8'x1' raised beds. Each one has a cattle panel trellis down the middle. There are a few other permanent beds of different sizes (asparagus, garlic, strawberries, Jerusalem artichoke, horseradish, Egyptian walking onions). I didn't get these overnight. It has been, and continues to be, a work in progress.

I am growing many tomatoes, assorted peppers, lettuces, cabbages, eggplants, pole and bush beans, okra, cucumbers, various summer squash, onions, potatoes, a couple of winter squash, herbs (in cinder blocks at the ends of raised beds, and a new to me veggie - yacon. I have each of these beds mapped and copious notes made in a notebook for future reference.

I don't know about your Mom, but my grandparents also made use of wild foods and I am doing the same. You would not need to allot space to these things - just find them and be ready to forage. Besides in my beds, asparagus grows wild around here. So do elderberries and blackberries. Watercress is available year round in the creek and spring ponds. Wild rose hips can be gathered for rose hip tea or preserves. Mint also grows by the creek. Food, just free for the taking. Your zone will likely have different things, but it's an idea you might want to consider.

Although my grandfather did not do SFG, I have, ever since I read about it in Mother Earth News years ago. It is much easier for me. We are a family of four. Besides the food we eat fresh, I still can and put things in the freezer every year. I'm not sure anyone can tell you exactly how much you need to plant in how much space. That can even vary yearly, depending on the weather.

My best recommendation for you is: start small and just keep planting.

Becky

Well said Becky. I think the moral is keep planting and "never-give-up" ;-)

Many new gardeners get discouraged when they take on more than they can handle the first year. Take notes each year, while plants are still in the ground (& the thought is fresh in your mind) for the coming year. Each year will be better than the last.

Let's face it, gardening is a lot of work. I often wonder just how farmers make enough (any) money to pay for their work & expenses. At the same time it can be a source of satisfaction for the home gardener.

Plan your work, work your plan,
Gumby_CT

Thanks for the ideas Becky and Gumby-Ct! We did much the same things as you and your family Becky. Besides what we grew on the farm my dad hunted and we all went clamming and fishing. Got fruit from the wild and from an old abandoned farm. We also bartered. I promise that I won't get discouraged at the hard work. I started clearing this land with an ax and dug many of the stumps with hand tools. Hard work and I are good friends. What I laughingly call loam was what the excavator pealed off for the road and the house lot. It was FULL of rocks, roots and stumps. I made a makeshift sifter from junk scavanged from the dump and sifted enough "soil" to make a 5 foot pile. I have filled four boxes so far, before amendments. The boxes were made from crap lumber(not pressure treated), also from the dump.

I just finished a small lasagna bed just to experiment to see if I could make that work.

Hey Becky what are the Jerusalem artichokes like? I saw them for the first time on Victory Garden. They said to dig all that you could find each year and you would still leave enough for next year. They didn't say much else about them. Are they hardy, disease and pest resistant. Do you know where I could find the tubers? Do they taste like any other type of vegetable?

Most of the farmers we knew have already gone under or are just getting by by the skin of their teeth. It is a hard way of life, just like lobstering and fishing. So much of what little you earn has to go to expenses and then back into equipment just to stay afloat.

I meant to suggest lasagna bed. If I had to start a new bed today, that is just how I would do it. I kinda stumbled on SFG after I had dug a bunch of big rocks from my row garden.

After a couple years of tilling I just started building frames to place on top of the soil. Then building more and more beds the next year. I realized I had no use for my tiller, so I sold it. A good Toro tiller, always started 1st pull. But it was killing my neck, shoulders, & back every time I used it.

Check link below and search this forum using "building beds" to get even more ideas.

I am not a fan of using any plastic to 'protect' the wood. I think it will provide a home for slugs and trap moisture to do what the user is trying to stop, decay.

Skip any landscape fabric too, it doesn't stop the weeds and just tangles the roots of everything then never decays. Use something that will decay like cardboard or newspaper.

Good Luck,
Gumby_CT

Here is a link that might be useful: Borders for Bed Gardening

never-give-up, I have not eaten Jerusalem artichokes since I was a child. My great-grandfather had a patch and I know my great-grandmother made pickles and a relish from them. My Mom says she also cooked them like potatoes, but I don't remember that. Raw, they taste kind of like water chestnuts.

I planted some of the tubers last year and was told to not harvest them the first year. This year, though I will be digging some. I've looked up recipes not only for the pickling and relish, but cooking them as a vegetable. I know you can add them to soup, and one of the recipes I found substitutes them for potatoes in latkes. They're a good source of inulin, as are the yacon I also planted this year. That's especially good for diabetics as it's a starch they can easily eat.

An aesthetic benefit is that they have sunflower looking flowers. Our farm is the centre of an old land grant place with 200 yr old log buildings. One side of the old corn crib was just an empty spot of ground and I decided sunflowers would look good there. And then I remembered the Jerusalem artichokes, so got them instead. IIRC, I ordered them from Nichols.

Becky

never-give-up i think it is an honorable idea to can and freeze enough to support your family during the winter. Things like green onions you can certainly wash, cut up, and freeze in bags for winter use in soups etc... as well you can do zuchinni the same way for fresh zuchinni bread or to add to soups in the winter. I have my onions planted in a small area maybe 2x4 and there is probably 30 or so green onions per row, maybe more and there is five rows and that is something you can replant as the season goes along.

My grandparents as well canned and froze everything they could get their hands on and i remember as a kid even butchering our own beef and hog. She had a potato cellar, but we had a huge garden in and of itself for potatoes and she would use some of those potatoes to plant the following year. I can remember breaking beans that seem to take a month of sundays to do and freezing corn on the cob etc... Lots of work but i can tell you there is nothing better than chili made from fresh tomato juice...yummm!!!

I don't necessarily think that you save money canning and freezing, it is more for taste...much better than store bought. By the time you figure cost of garden start up, canning jars, flats, and lids, ziplock bags, seasonings, your time...it probably cost more to can than buy. But the taste is so much better this way. So if your looking to save money i'm not sure you do, if your looking for a healthier and more tasty way to go then canning and freezing is probably what you want to do.

In terms of how much to plant: if you can get ahold of Mel Bartholomew's first book, "Square Foot Gardening," it has a plan for a garden for canning/freezing, with suggested number of blocks of various things. Of course, it depends on the size of your family, what you like, etc. He suggests that one block of 16 sq. ft. per person will supply you with enough salad greens for one person for one season. But I would echo the advice of others that it's better to start smaller and work your way up. It's a whole different mindset than conventional gardening and you need to get a feel for it.

We grew Jerusalem artichokes for many years. They are knobbly tubers, which have to be scrubbed clean with a brush. They are very sweet and tasty, but cause a lot of gas because the inulin is indigestible. That also makes them low in calories.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the additional information. I have never heard of yacon. That looks very interesting as well as the jerusalem artichokes.

I want to start some asparagus next spring when I get that figured out. As it takes so long to establish I may have found something for the waiting period. Any of you tried asparagus peas? I found them in Veseys Seeds catalog. It says they have small winged pods that taste similar to asparagus when steamed and topped with butter.

I already have alot of canning stuff. I have been collecting jars, canner, etc. for years while waiting to move on this land. Lawn sales practically give this stuff away around here as hardly anyone does it anymore. I hope to do more scrounging over the summer.

I love canning & perserving. It is as satisfying to me as gardening. :-) never-give-up, I think it's wonderful you have been preparing for this. Sometimes it gets pretty hectic when lots of things are getting ready at once, but I am always so glad when I put up our own food. If you are going to can, may I suggest you get a current copy of the Ball Blue Book? It has the latest safety recommendations, recipes, etc. You might also want to check out the Harvest Forum here on Gardenweb.

Becky

Here is a link that might be useful: Harvest Forum

Good suggestion about the Ball Blue Book. I only have an old copy I got somewhere... I didn't even know there was a Harvest Forum as I have been so busy looking in the ones like this. Can't wait to get to that one. Boy what a wealth of information here!

Found this link today, haven't read the whole thing but it looks like it has some good & useful info.
Good Luck,
Gumby_CT

Here is a link that might be useful: When planning your garden, it is important to ask a few basic questions:

There is some good & useful information on the link Gumby_CT posted. I haven't had time to read it all either, but am going to try 2 things I did read. The idea of making your own sprouts would be awesome in the dead of winter. Good way to have some fresh foods.

Thanks for the link Gumby_CT

the charts in this book will give you your answer.

How to grow more vegetables (and fruits, nuts, berries, grains, and other crops) than you ever thought possible on less land than you can imagine
by John Jeavons

Allotmentgardeners thanks for this book title, I will look for it. It sounds very interesting and right up my alley. As time goes by I want to add more fruits and such. We found a spot and put in 3 grapes so far.

We have got quite an experimental garden going on. Boxes of a number of shapes and sizes according to what we could scrounge up. Some are planted by the square foot measurements, but using the soil I sifted out and amended like justaguy2 said. Another bed is planted like the directions from Dick Raymonds mixed wide rows. A small lasagna bed that I look very forward to seeing the results of. No one that has seen it has ever heard of it either. Very exciting stuff.

It looks a bit odd but we had some smaller pieces of wood that we made into small rectangle boxes. We dug a hole big enough to put a pole in, put the box down, put the pole in and filled it with the mixed soil and planted pole bean seeds. As they were rectangles we put some lettuce on the more shaded side hoping it wouldn't bolt this summer. We ran out of wood and made a raised bed out of pieces of sod turned upside down and stacked. It all looks a bit odd, but it seems like it should work. We'll see. Yours and ideas from the other forums I've checked out are all over the back yard. I can't wait to see what happens.
Thanks lots!

After all the effort everyone put in trying to help me I hoped that you might be interested in what I have learned from this so far.

I have tried a little bit of a lot of the different techniques suggested and have decided that staying with that is probably the best way to keep going.

There were drainage and/or erosion problems on three sides of the house, which after a long summers work, I am praying are fixed. It leaves us with different problems that really can't be easily overcome with one form of gardening.

One quite large area behind a retaining wall has very heavy clay soil which I am slowly turning into a Lasagna bed. The small Lasagna bed I tried in the experimental gardens gave me the best tomatoes of all. I am hoping for good results in this new bed as well. I have managed to scrounge some better materials to make this one with. I found myself nearly vibrating with excitement and felt like I hit the Mother Load when I scored a truckload of lawn clippings to put in it.

We were walking across the parking lot and I spied some cherries that someone had dropped and tried to stop and pick them up for my compost, only to have my spouse take my arm and steer me to the truck. That has made me realize I am becoming a Compost Wacko as well.

Until this year I have never experienced the "zucchini phenomenon". I can finally say that the square foot garden gave me zucchini coming out of my ears. Awesome stuff!

I finally sifted enough soil to fix the front yard and after a soils test found the soil very deficient in a number of things. We applied the amendments that were suggested and rented a tiller to mix them in. We will put a cover crop on this fall and again next year as it will take 2 years just to get the ph down and the other things up to where they belong. Then that bed will be planted with things that are mostly permanent. Using a tiller for the first time made us sure that is not something we want to repeat on a yearly basis. I am not sure who got worked over better, the soil or us. The fact that we could both get out of bed this morning was quite surprising. LOL

We had some failures due to bugs, weather, inexperience and a late start, but none of it is wasted as we learned alot. Mostly this year we learned some of what not to do and believe that it is possible that grasshoppers, japanese beatles and slugs are part of the "axis of evil" Bush spoke of. LOL.

Well thanks again everybody. I continue to read the things that you post and keep notes. I look forward to reading more of your suggestions and experiences!

good to hear - glad it is working out for you and of course thanks for the feedback

never-give-up,
My Mom also did the same as yours. We had a root cellar full of food for the winter.
I remember how much time she put into doing that.
Unless you are willing to work ALL day during the summer months and have no other job, yes it can be done.
I still do a lot of canning and harvest lots of food for the winter. I am completely unconcerned about cost savings. I do it because:

1. I know what I'm feeding my family and where it came from.
2. I can produce the healthiest food for them.
3. I use strictly organic methods. no pesticides or other chemicals.
4. I enjoy a certain amount of independence.
5. I encourage them to work outside with me. It's good exercise and time well spent.
6. I just plain LOVE IT!.

If your reasons for growing are just to save money. I suggest weekly trips to the market.

Tom

Here is a link that might be useful: What to grow for a family of 4

Thanks for the chart oregon veg.

I believe many of the same things as you wrote, except that I am concerned about cost savings as well. God willing, I will find a way to make that happen too.

never-give-up,

thanks for posting your progress. I'm very curious about how much space it would take to supply myself with food. Right now I only have a tiny garden so it's not practical, but I'm learning a lot with what I have!

With the price of food being what it is I thought it might be a good time to bump this in hopes of giving fellow "green horns" some encouragement. If you have little money, little knowledge and crappy soil you can still do this!

Last May I was totally green behind the ears when it came to gardening. This year I can say I am not TOTALLY green any more. Lets just say I am different shade of green. LOL.

Last year I started with little money or experience, but a real need to learn as fast as I could to help get food on the table. So if this sounds like you then let me tell you that it isn't easy, but if you work hard, and with Mother Natures help, you can put food on the table for your family too. Also if you just found gardenweb like I did last May stick around. You will find the people here really nice and the information invaluable.

This is how far we have come in a little more than a year. We had precious little decent soil to work with. What we had for soil I had tested and am still working on amending it to meet the requirements, but in the mean time those sections, are or were, planted with: pole beans, peas and snow peas, potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, carrots, herbs, asparagus, bush beans, summer squash and zucchini, red beets, spinach, swiss chard, parsnips, onions and green onions, acorn squash, cucumbers, egg plant, broccoli, cauliflower, red and green cabbage, garlic, white and purple kolrabi, pumpkin, 6 blue berry bushes, 3 grapevines and rhubarb.

To replace some of the vegetables already harvested, are or will be: broccoli, kale, collards, bush beans, golden beets, carrots, green onion, kolrabi and next years garlic.

How I did it with out much money to work with is that I sold some things for seed money. We built what raised beds we have with small scraps of salvaged wood pieced together to "make" a length of board and made boxes of all sizes. Then filled them with hand sifted soil, scrounged from where ever and brought a bucket or a wheel barrow at a time to fill them and then ammended.

We now have one large lasagna bed which was behind a retaining wall that was filled with rocky fill. Some of the fill was hand dug out and used elsewhere. Some really heavy blue clay, that hardens almost as hard as a rock, was scrounged to replace it. Then that was covered with lasagna layers. The winter squash and some zucchini are growing like crazy there!

We have 2 more lasagna beds, that have no sides, that the cauliflower, cabbage and broccoli loved. Most of those vegetables are in the freezer now. We just starting a new larger lasagna bed off the side yard which we hope to plant next year.

What would have been the front lawn had the only decent soil. Much of that was sifted by hand to remove LITERALLY pickup truck loads of rocks. That one is planted mostly with Dick Raymond's wide rows and with pole beans. We did peas in wide rows and will definitely do that again! Same for the bush beans, carrots, beets, swiss chard, etc. More yield per square foot!

The side yard was rocky fill. A long trench was hand dug and replaced with more hand sifted and amended soil for the asparagus and more of the same to plant the blueberries and grapes.

We have had problems with 1st, torrential rains, that was followed by high heat and humidity with no rain. Then if only we could eat the beetles! But with diligence, determination and perhaps "luck" the vegetables are growing and producing.

It does help if you are a stubborn as a mule. The most important thing in growing food under these conditions is what decolady01/Becky and Gumby_CT said: Just keep on planting and never give up.

"never-give-up"
All you have to do for your garden is plan on paper how big you want it to be, what you/family "do eat," and go from there.
The "key" is this: plant your veggies in "SUCESSIONS." in other words, plant half your crops, the wait a month and then plant the other half. You won't burden yourself all at once at harvest, and you will have some for now and some for winter until it's time to replant for the following year.
*Spring crops: (plant two times): beans, carrots, corn, cucumbers, summer squashes, melons, peppers, potatoes, tomatoes all can be planted when it gets warm (around April). After these are finished growing , then do your:
* Fall crops: (plant one time): beets, beet greens, broccoli, brussel sprouts, cabbage, lettuces, peas, onions, carrots, spinach, swiss chard (plant the swiss in a bed by itself-it will re-grow year-after-year).

Thank you krintis for your imput. My idea of succession planting is more on the line of: Try to never let a foot of soil go bare. Plant SOMETHING to nourish either you or the soil. Preferably both.

I started with this question last May. I suppose it would have been better to make a new link and post the old one in it, but I don't know how.

I thought perhaps this year being so hard on folks that there might be others in the same shoes who might get encouragement from bumping this as there are a lot of good ideas here. See my post just before yours krintis. Thanks again for your imput.

I'm glad that you rejuvenated this old thread. It has some valuable information in it, as well as encouragement. I hope your garden is a complete success every year. I've only been a GW member for about 6 months, but the knowledge that i've gained in gardening is tremendous. There are alot of very wise people on here, that are ready and willing to help a person with whatever problem may arise. Good luck

EG

This is a great thread... I'm on the pathway to doing the same thing. One thing I wanted to mention is to keep an eye out on craigslist for cheap materials to build garden beds with. I am hooking up with someone who is going to sell me cedar planks for $.25 each that I'll build my beds with - it'll be long-lasting, natural, and definitely cheap! I know a lot of people who have had luck also getting cinder blocks and whatnot for free or really cheap to build their beds with. As I'm building my beds NOW (as in, within the next month) I'm trying to do it all as inexpensively as possible and then next year I'll have the cost of the seeds (i'll do lasagna gardening with layers of free stuff all this summer and in the fall, so by the time I need to start my garden next year it'll be ready).

I have a small family, but I really hope to eventually be at the point where I can put up enough food in the fall to feed us. I've already done it somewhat with food I didn't grow, like u-pick or whatnot, but it'll be nice to be able to freeze a bunch of homegrown veggies instead of buying it frozen.

Thanks and good luck to you too engineeredgarden. GREAT score on the cedar betho. We should mention freecycle too.

I have a friend in a hard way that really could have used the food from a garden this year, but let pride and what other people think get in the way. The garden doesn't have to look traditional to provide food. Lasagna beds without sides may not look as neat as a perfectly sided raised bed, but the vegetables don't care!

Same goes for the front of the house. A perfectly manicured lawn or flower garden may look nicer and "normal" to others, but if it is the only patch of soil you have to grow things and need food........ With imagination you can play with the design and make it look just as nice. Vegetable plants are beautiful too.

it is a good thread but what your gonna find is the garden forums have been taken over by bloggers who will spend $3k for a garden, $400 for a composter but dont know the basic garden tech. who knows how much they get for getting you to click on their site to look at their models

I disagree, darkcloud - there are plenty of us on here, who are down to earth people, that just want to share their garden experiences- as well as learn new techniques. And, I spent $500 on my new sfg (because I can, financially- and I wanted it to last for a very long time). Haven't you ever heard the old saying "you get what you pay for?" Sure, there are some people on here that shouldn't be - but I don't have to believe anything that they say. I could even tell them that I think they smoke crack on a daily basis. But why bother? I'm just a redneck from Alabama - who is reaching out to all his neighbors, for advice on making my garden more productive and efficient. Those are my thoughts. Take care

EG