How deep is your blessedly soft soil?

One of the easiest ways to grow vertically is to get some 8' t posts and some nylon netting with 7" openings. Burpee, among others, sells the netting, your local hardware store has the t posts. The 8' t posts go 1.5 feet into the soil.

If your soil is soft to that depth, well, I dunno... ;-) Build an a frame to grow over I guess.

Squash are simply huge. Sq. Ft method or not makes no difference, they are huge plants. Give them a couple feet at least.

username_5 "How deep is your blessedly soft soil?"

::Why do "I" always get these responses?
When I was a kid it went to China.::

You seem to be an intelligent person, but this thread is not about my soil is softer than your soil.

I mentioned it purely for understanding. So someone reading this "Staking Summer Squash" question next month, next year, or maybe the year after, could understand why I didn't use stakes or cages. Both which are about useless in SFG. Any weight at ALL will bring them down. This is the SFG forum, right?

Even tho I could show you pictures of the rocks & the size of the rocks I took out of my garden I can pretty much guarantee you, when you decide to pound a stake you will likely find a rock right where you want to pound that stake. Wish I knew about SFG when I started diggin here but then it is not my property so just how much do you spend?

I have about 20 stakes I painted some years ago to mark 6 inch increments, so I could tell when I was down between 18 & 24 inches, (my row garden days, when squash or zucchini took a 4x4 area). By the end of the season, tomatoes with stakes & cages (coupled with wind, weight, & rain) were bent right over. My best luck, was last year, with strings & ropes going up to a wooden framed trellis (using those stakes) screwed to the side of the frames. They held up to even the late season winds circling some of the hurricanes (2005 the yr of Katrina & how many other hurricanes?)

I thank you for your idea, but I am not willing to spend that kind of money to grow a few squash. I have not priced a T-post yet but imagine I could buy a whole lot of squash for what it would cost. Not to mention the pain & frustration of trying to pound it in the ground (Oh then netting?) only to see it collapse and ruin something else for me. NOT.

I live in: United States My zone is: 5
Members page says you also live in United States zone 5. Same soil no doubt. NOT, if you are pounding things in the ground, where you want them.

In case you are wondering, the CT in my handle stands for Connecticut, where gardening is pure hell.

To digress some more, I would say that if you can shove your fork into your bed with one hand so that the tines are no longer visible, (hey even 2 hands) I would say your soil won't likely support stakes or cages either. And if you can do that roun' c'here, you can bet someone has gardened there before.

I would suggest you either email me or we take this to the gallery.

I renew my question -
Does anyone have any pictures or detailed instructions on how to make this work?

Gumby_CT

Even in clay soils I've never seen the cheaper tomato cages hold up well unless they were sunk pretty much all the way into the ground. There are two grades of tomato cage, the big ones are a lot more stout. That being said, an end of season tomato plant is much more massive than a squash stalk, the squash might make it through in a lighter cage.

Hey Gumby, not sure what I said that got you fired up, but I wasn't trying to offend by asking about the depth of your soft soil.

Was was asking because an 8' tpost goes 18" into the soil and most soils get solid enough at that depth to support significant weight.

I can definitely shove a pitchfork into the garden soil and bury the tines, but the soft, loose soil only goes about 8" or so and is then clay and rock. I use the 8' t posts with 4' spacing to support tomatos. The tomato cages forget about it, those tip over before long, but the t posts have been in place for about 3 years and aren't moving at all.

Yes, they cost money, I think about $4 apiece if I remember correctly, but they are extremely strong and will last decades. They also do not bend when they hit a rock. I am not talking about those rather flimsy metal stakes that are bent metal, I am talking about t-posts which are widely used for fencing applications.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know that whatever hostility you may have thought was coming from my first post, wasn't intended - at all.

Mea Culpa, username 5 (just sounds sooo impersonal) - apology accepted and please accept mine. As with most mis-understandings, I believe I made several assumptions, right or wrong, I made them and I NEVER like to make assumptions, because I tend to make faulty judgements when I do. If I have, I am sorry.

The handle you have chosen for yourself is likely a big part as to why I made assumptions in this case, a bit on the vague (shady) side. Maybe there is a valid reason for this, I don't know. Just my opinion (assumption again). I assumed from your opening statement, you were leading the discussion some where else (mea culpa).

I will admit the part about the t-posts (which I have never used) may benefit others reading this. I assumed they would be more like $25-30. For $4 I would likely give them a try, tho I still do not think you could buy much of anything 'round here for $4 (my problem, not yours), I will keep an eye open. Oh, I have NO idea what area of this wonderful country you are in. That leads to more assumptions. Certainly you could clear the air on that one. A picture or link of what you are talking about may help others who may be able to use or want to try them.

Oh, you made the suggestion to try 'timers' on water barrels and I realized my timers required water pressure in order to work, I assumed you were just throwing ideas out. Not that there is anything wrong with brain storming but I tend to give more credence to things people have tried and know they work. Not Monday night quarterbacks. I would say, if you have NOT tried something but think it will work - that IS worth mentioning. But that's me.

I believe everyone has a limit and I guess you were just in the wrong place at the right time when I reached mine. The reason my reply has taken so long, is I had to look inside myself to find the answers.

Tho I do enjoy reading the forums, I hope to begin spending more time in my garden & less time on this computer, Which is typical of me during the summer months. I did feel that you deserved a response and didn't want this to linger any longer.

The internet is a great resource for information, however as with most written communication something gets lost in the text. Hearing voice inflection, seeing eyes or facial expression, even hand gestures helps sooo much in understanding the message one wishes to convey. Not hearing or seeing these things leaves so much for interpretation. I guess that is why they use profiles.

In summary, I would say that you were not the entire reason for my diatribe, just within reach ::smiling::.

That being said, hey let's get back on topic here, eh?
::bartender, my turn, give us a round over here please::
Gumby Damit.

here's what works for me - cages made of concrete reinforcing wire

I use them for my tomatoes and have found that I can use a shorter version for squash and cukes - they are between 18 & 30" tall (taller for cukes - shorter for zukes) and approx. 2' in diam

for squash they simply help hold the leaves up - you kind of have to direct them up to the tops of the cages - it makes it easy to get to the fruit

if you cut them right you'll have almost 6" spikes all the way around the bottom of the cage and you can also bury it so that the bottom ring goes deeper into the soil for more support

may try smaller diameter cages if space is at a premium - but I haven't yet

expect to loose a few leaves now and again due to breakage - doesn't seem to hurt production

I know you asked about staking...just thought I'd share...

Thanks, I'll try that. Just want to get them up off the ground.

Anna, I am trying to do the same idea. If they seem to need more stability, I may try driving stakes down inside the cage. It's hard to explain with only one cup of coffee in me, but I saw it recently on a gardening show and it made sense to me.

anna's idea works great. I have been using the concrete reinforcing wire for a few years now. As for staking 1/2 rebar works great. The local building supply store sells sort pieces. I found a construcion site doing a large concrete job, and asked them for any short pieces of rebar. They gave me all I needed in both 1/2" & 3/4" size. The "t" posts also work in very hard rocky soil. I believe I must have bougnt a home on a old river bed. I only have good luck with the "T" posts around my home.

For years I have used cylinders made of 6" x 6" concrete reinforcement mesh to support my tomatoes. The mesh can be obtained from most home/building supply stores such a Home Depot or Lowe's. Before you set out to do this, please know that the material is very strong and stiff and is not easy to bend and cut, but with a little perseverance and a sufficiently large cutting plier, it's not that hard. The roll is ten squares wide (60") and can be obtained in rolls of 25' and 50'. Cut a piece 11 squares long and form a cylinder ten squares in circumference (overlapping one square). Stitch up the connection with galvanized steel wire. To place the cylinder, drive two #3 pieces of re-bar (available in 3' pre-cut lengths at the same store) about a foot into the ground 19" apart. Slide the cylinder down outside the rebar all the way to the ground. Then just use 4" or 6" pieces of "Tie-Wrap" to fasten the cylinder securely to the pieces of rebar, two to a rebar. The placement can be done after you have started the plants in the ground.

The beauty of these cylinders is that, once built, they will last many years (mine are going on 11 years and are still strong and intact, albeit a bit rusty, left outside all year. You can leave them out in the winter, then in the spring, when the soil is soft and moist, just pull them off and pull up the rebar and move to a new location. You will not find a stronger, more practical and easy to use cage anywhere. They support large, bushy tomato plants in strong winds without a bit of a problem. Next year I am going to try them on my Zucchini and crookneck squash, as I think the leaves will rest comfortably through the squares, and the plant will be kept off the ground, away from disease, and the squash bugs will have a harder time hiding.

Best of luck....