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alamo5000

shade, heat, space questions

17 years ago

I live in Texas now (where I grew up) and on several different occassions (in different climates/states/countries) I have grown tomatoes generally for fun, in buckets or whatever because space was limited. (Once I even grew a 7 foot plus tomato vine in a very large window of a sunroom--in an apartment--in the middle of the winter--and in a snowy environment)

Growing up here though we always had a garden.

Now I am back from overseas... I have the space available...and now I am planning a larger and more fun tomato garden of my own.

In my climate here in South East Texas the spring time is beautiful, as is the fall... but for a month or two in the middle of summer it gets HOT...We could probably grow tomato plants 8 months out of the year here if you tried, but the middle of the summer is steaming.

Long story short growing up our plants would generally get scorched by the sun and the leaves would show it, and it would not produce as much as hoped...

My first question is has anyone experimented with any type of shading, removable shading, or maybe some type of semi-clear material that still lets light in but prevents the direct burning sun from harming the plants...

Also, I have a variety of locations that I can use... everything from full blown sun completely unprotected, all the way to shade, and everything in between, including a spot that is generally sunny but is also blocked from the wind...Any advice in this regard to 'ideal location' will help.

Other than just saying 'use XYZ variety' has anyone experimented or tried anything to help the plants not get burned? (I even thought about buying or making a large removable open air canopy and arranging it so the plants will get good morning sun and/or evening sun, but can block the direct burning 2pm scorcher and using it in those few months where it matters)

My thought process is that good sun is obviously important, but too much sun (and the resulting too much heat) is a bad thing particularly in the burning July and August heat.... so it would be better to have a few hours less of direct sun to offset the harm from heatstroke....

My next question is fairly simple. I can grow anything up to 50 plants or so, so how much spacing will I need side by side as well as laterally for each plant?

Comments (10)

  • 17 years ago

    By the way, if it makes any difference I have just bought a bunch of different types of seeds...will start them indoors in pete pots in a few weeks...

    I have about 6 different varieties of tomatoes... a few different colors (red cherry, yellow cherry, different color beefsteak, etc etc)...all are indeterminate and I plan on staking them or making something for them to grow on to keep them off the ground.

  • 17 years ago

    Howdy alamo
    First the spacing, generally I follow the directions on the seed pack, some may say 3-4 feet if staked , and 2 foot if caged...Cherries need a wide girth and since you are staking yours I say 4 foot or more. I only grow one cherry and it's caged so I keep it at 3 foot. Other IND varieties are also caged and I space them at 3 foot also...and I leave one row in between them, so they are over 5 foot apart.
    As for the heat, ya it gets hot here..especially in late July and into August..100+ most days..
    I'd suggest using white shade cloth with a 78% light transmission erected on PVC piping shading the west side of your plants (2-5 pm is the peak of the heat)it can knock down the temp a good 15-20 degrees or so compared to full sun exposure. Keep in mind though that the shade cloth support will need securing so it doesn't blow away in these TX Thunderstorms. Good Luck

    Happy Gardening.

  • 17 years ago

    Hi alamo

    I think you are about lat 26, I'm lat 25. We have even more sun than you do. LOL
    First, I grow in pots so I can move them to the south side for winter, and the north and east side for summer.

    I found that my tomatoes do not need or want full sun down here. In the winter I use nothing. This past year I discovered aluminum shade cloth. I couldn't get over the difference. It does keep it cooler and the plants do not burn up under it.

    There's a lot of great tomatoes growers on here from Texas, they can help you better with the specifics for your area.

    Welcome
    Corrie

    Here is a link that might be useful: Aluminet Shade Cloth

  • 17 years ago

    Thanks for all the replies. It was very useful.

    Let me follow up on some more questions....

    I have read up on the aluminet...because I am going to be using it primarily in an open air situation is it going to be worth the extra investment vs using some other type of material?

    Next, is it required to use shadecloth, or could I use some other type of material like a tarp or something?

    Lastly, 78% wow. I saw all kinds of shade cloths all at so many different percentages...this is just another reason why I am wondering if I could use some other type of material?

  • 17 years ago

    Wow, great link, Corrie!

    Thanks,
    Jan

  • 17 years ago

    Tarp material blocks too much light...if you can get white tarp, that MIGHT do, but mind you tarps are notorious for being wind grabbers, and the plants still need air circulation...shade cloth allows some air to flow through.
    Back to tarps...as long as the plant has had at least 7 hours of full sun or more, go with tarps. I've heard of people using plastic window screen as shade for mid-late summer toms.
    Any shade you can provide will do as long as there is still air circulation.

    Happy Gardening.

  • 17 years ago

    you're welcome Jan ;-)

    "I have read up on the aluminet...because I am going to be using it primarily in an open air situation is it going to be worth the extra investment "

    Don't know. I think I would go through this season, then try to figure what you need to fix anything, if you do.

    7 hours of full sun would be way too extreme for us down here. My plants are just fine all winter with around three hours of direct sun and the rest bright light.
    There's a thread around here somewhere about photo-toxicity and saturation. After a few hours of our tropical sun, that's all a plant needs.

    I put up the Aluminet some time in May, because where I grow in the winter gets way too much sun and heat by the end of May through June. Plus I can trim heavy and no fruit burns.

    Corrie

  • 17 years ago

    Seems easy to me. You plant two seasons. My plants (in the Dallas area) get planted out in the beginning of March and are done by sometime in June. Then I start the next set of seeds that get planted 6-8 weeks later and I grow the fall crop.

    No shade cloth needed since there won't be much fruit in the heat...just green growth. I'd love to have that picture perfect summer garden that you see in all the garden books but I don't live in those places so I don't fight the climate, I work with it.

  • 17 years ago

    I grew Bush Early Girl last year and kept it on my West fence. My two story house would block the morning sun until around 10:00am or so. Then the plant would get full sun from the time the sun crested the house until it cast a shadow in the evening around roughly 6:00pm. I live between Austin and San Antonio so I assume our climates are similar, with highs in 100's and lows in the 90's for weeks at a time (at 70, we break out the sweaters! :-).

    The Bush Early Girl produced for me all summer, regardless of the temps and never seemed to suffer from any type of sun-related damage.

    As for you, I'd recommend trying a BEG and see how it does for you, as well as a couple of other hybrids just to compare to your heirlooms (or whatever seeds you purchased). Since you have so much space, I would go ahead and spread your plants out. Try every variety in each area. Plant one of each on the west side. Try every variety on south side and so on. You'll learn which variety works best in which area as well as learn which ones you like better. Next year, you can plant the different varieties in the area where they did best this year. Finally, with 50 plants, it's not like you are going to end up empty handed. Something will produce fruit unless something freakish happens that kills all 50 plants. If that happens, it would have happened no matter where you planted them!

    Also, might I add that if you have the seeds and the equipment (grow lights or whatever), I would go ahead and plant them NOW! The recommendations I read say that you should allow 6-8 weeks from sowing to trans-planting. Since it warms up so fast here, we don't have much of a Spring with temps that allow for tomatoes to produce. You need to get them in the ground as close to the frost date as you can, and be prepared to protect them should we get a late "freak" cold snap. I started my plants on the 13th of January and plan to have them in the ground on March 7th (provided the 10-day forecast looks good at that point). On warmer days, I'm already setting my plants out for an hour or two to play in the shade while I prepare my beds. A couple of them even get to spend the night out (still in their pots, with a milk jug cover for cold nights).

  • 17 years ago

    Corrie,

    What shade level are you using? 30%? 40%? More? Thanks again for the link. Aluminet just might be what the doctor ordered for the Tucson area, mid June through mid September. The direct sun just murders the foliage. Does Alluminet hold up well through wind and rain?

    Russ in Marana, AZ