It has been grown out to at least F12 that I am aware of. It rapidly loses most of the intense tropical fruit flavor because some of the genes are linked in such a way that they can only exist in a hybrid.

There is at least one very good cross that is in process of being dehybridized and within a couple of years should be available. Be prepared, it will knock you socks off. It is the only tomato I've ever eaten that rates an 11 on a scale of 1 to 10.

DarJones

Darrel, Hoosier talked about that cross in the Bicolor cherry thread here and what the parents were, in general, and how much you liked it.

But what's the probability that in comtinued selection and genetic stabilization that the fruity taste is pretty much lost?

Reinhard Kraft in Germany has developed several OP versions of Sungold F1 as you know, but not by crossing, and I think the latest one, Big Sungold Select, which I grew this past summer, was pretty darn good. Larger fruited than Sungold F1 and more orange from the get go.

Sgt, most folks who save seeds from Sungold F1 or take a look at some volunteers get both orange and red fruited plants but the taste just isn't there. The red doesn't really surprise me b'c Sungold F1, like most flat truss cherries, has genes bred in from S.pimpinellifolium, the red currant, that carries that flat truss trait.

Future developments with Sungold should be interesting.

Carolyn

Fusion, you have mentioned the idea of genetic linking before, I do not see how the tropical fruit flavors can exist in the fruit but cannot be selected past F1 due to the flavors being linked only at the F1 stage. I know that previous efforts have been fruitless (hehe) but, it seems that the flavor should be possible to break out as an OP.

Fusion, as a long time SunGold lover it's just not that nice for you to tease that way! ;-)

Sgt doesn't like tomato teasing :(

Fusion, you have mentioned the idea of genetic linking before, I do not see how the tropical fruit flavors can exist in the fruit but cannot be selected past F1 due to the flavors being linked only at the F1 stage. I know that previous efforts have been fruitless (hehe) but, it seems that the flavor should be possible to break out as an OP.
*****

Long time no see B, so HI!

it depends on how close the linkage is. it looks like that linkage of the fruitiness, as it were, is very closely linked to I don't know what that accompanies the F1 status, but it's the distance between two genes that determines how well, or if, they will segregate when selections are made from the F1, F2's, etc.

Too closely linked and no gene segregation as I see it.

Carolyn, whose experience is primarily with fruit flies and bacteria and viruses, but DNA is DNA and the mechanisms are pretty much the same for shall I say lower life forms? LOL I'm sure that others here can confirm same for tomatoes. And I''ll note that I grew Rheinhard Kraft's latest Sungold OP this apst summer, maybe I wrote that above, I can't remember, and it wasn't bad at all; a bit larger then Sungold, more orange from the get go and quite tasty.

The thing I wonder about is that genetically, a tomato of any given size, color, taste etc...carries a full load of genetics that can express in a variety of characteristics, or not express, ergo, latent genetic capabilities. It would seem to me, that if the Sungold segregates have these genes, then even if closely linked, at some point that fruitiness should be seen, even if the most reliable method of getting that flavor is a manipulated hybrid tomato at the F1 stage.