We'd probably need to know more. What kind of soil are they growing in? Are you growing them in Totes? Self-watering containers? Are you growing them outside (looks like you're in Minnesota)? What about drainage?

Anney,

I am in San Jose, CA. They are in Miracle Grow Potting Mix with Moisture Control. They are in a self-watering Earthbox. Soil moisture meter is indicating on the border of "Moist" and "Wet". I have them out in the full sun, hoping to dry them out a bit. But those in Container "A" with the same moisture reading appear to be doing fine.

thanks,

Raybo

raybo,

Sorry, I don't know why I thought you were in Minnesota. I suggest you go to your personal information on Member Pages and include your planting zone -- it's very helpful when discussing plant and growing issues!

I'd move those babies into the shade right now to relieve whatever stress they're suffering. Did they begin drooping before you put them in the sun? If so, the problem might have been too much water, though they don't usually get overwatered in self-waterers. If they began drooping only after you put them outside, they are shocked. If you don't know about hardening off plants, check out the FAQs at the top of the page.

Otherwise, maybe someone else has some idea of what's happened.

Here is a link that might be useful: Edit your Personal Information...

Anny,

They have been in the container outside since Feb 11. I have just re-potted them all into 4" containers with dry Miracle Grow Potting Mix. I notice a purple blotching on the undersides of several leaves:

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The moisture in the Earthbox was pretty damp (but not wet), so could excessive moisture be the problem??

Raybo

Raybo,

When did you start your seeds? I'm in San Mateo and when I started mine on Feb 9 I thought it may have been a little early. My biggest are only 2" tall. Did you star them indoors in the Earth Box?

Hi Mr. Potatohead,

I started my seeds on Dec 26. 44 out of 48 germinated.
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It is only now that I am having problems... Any ideas as to what is causing the purple blotching and wilting would be appreciated.

Raybo

that purpling looks like phosphorus deficiency to me, but i am no expert. they cant absorb ph properly if they are too cold...and they might be, being outside and all.

Regarding a deficiency, this wilting and purple color change has happened rapidly within 24 hours. The plants in Container "A" are still doing fine. This is what puzzles me. How can all the plants in Container "B" get this so quickly, unless something in the water caused this.

I did cut down a tree on Saturday that fell close to Container "B" and a lot of pollen and seed was dropped on this container. That is the ONLY thing I can identify that is different.

Ray

It does look like P deficiency. Given you used a pretty reliable soil mix (and the other tray is doing well) I'd look into that temperature issue sdshoars alluded to.

Plants get enough sun? Box "B" sitting on something cold/metal/etc. or different from Box "A"? Afternoon shade from some trees during peak warming/sun hours?

I'll just go ahead and say that if you are sure the boxes are in a warm enough place and get all the sun they need you should/can either place some simple plastic mulch over the seedlings or bring them in for a while.

It sounds like it may be an issue with how much one box is getting of warmth over the other. It could be a location problem more than anything.

I hope you removed the netting from those pellets before transplanting them!

There is clearly a serious problem in the one container and it is possible that it just hasn't shown up in the other container yet. One good reason for individual containers for plants.

The cause could be so many things (excess water, contaminated soil, fert burn, root burn, root rot, disease, etc.) that it is impossible to tell. But it has something to do with the roots - for some reason they are unable to support the needs of the plants.

So here's what I would do. I'd sacrifice one of the troubled ones and do an autopsy on it - pull it up roots and all - and closely examine it. See if the roots are impacted, see if there is any sign of stunting or root rot, see how wet the root ball actually is, then slice the stem open vertically and see if there is any discoloration inside, examine the leaves closely to see if there is any coating that will brush off, etc. - anything different at all. Depending on what you find, you'll then know if the others can be saved.

At the same time, I'd transplant a couple of the other bad ones to a new, individual container. I'd carefully remove as much of the dirt from around the roots as possible, plant it as deeply as possible, with new just-damp and wrung out soil and no additional water, and bring them inside out of the direct sun. IF they are salvageable you should see a marked improvement in them within 24 hours.

Worth a try to try to salvage so many plants. Good luck.;)

Dave

Whenever I see downward turning and/or distorted stems I think of contamination of some type. Was anything sprayed in the general area that could have drifted onto the plants? I'm thinking weed killer (even weed-n-feed), gasoline, and the like including household cleaners.

Good luck.

Randy

I would quickly assume everything at once:

1. I will repot all plant, and plant them all the way down to the first set of leaves. This will encourage stronger/new root growth.

2. I will change the location, if different from Container 'A', i will put with container 'A'. This will take care of enough exposure to sun (this is an assumption since Tray A is doing fine), location, air circulation, etc.

3. If it has a self watering tray, i will wait for the soil to dry and inch or two before attemting to water again. This will take care of over watering and root rot if any.

4. Your plants are old enough for some fertilizers. I am not sure which aproach you want to use (organic or quimical), but if using regular fertilizer make sure you use half the recommended and diluted in the water not the soil. I will use organic since it does less harm and less concentrated. this will take care of deficiencies if any like stated above (phosphurus).

5. Bring the plants inside at nighttime. I am not sure what is the temp change there at night, but this will keep the plants from getting chock with cold temps. February is so unpredictable as far as temperature is concern. Here in Rhode Island is 51*!. this is nuts!

6. If you do all this plant will recover within a day or two. This defenitely will work since you are crossing pretty much most of the problem stated above.

Hint: Collect rain water, best water known to man!, it does miracles!

Good luck!

Hi All,

Thanks for the suggestions and observations. I re-potted all 24 last night into individual 4" pots, with new potting mix. Looking at them this morning - - no change. I consider this a "good" thing as they aren't getting worse!

They appear "poisoned" in some fashion, as they all exhibited the same effects (curling leaves under, and limp stems), and as I cut down a large tree that fell near the container, it released a yellow dust cloud of tree pollen that drifted into the container by the breeze, I am leaning to this being the cause. I will NEVER do tree trimming again this time of year. The yellow pollen is still all over the back yard grass and raised bed area.

Raybo

Ray had asked this same question at another site and there I asked him if the tree he cut down was either a walnut or Butternut kind.

My concern in juglone poisoning.

P deficiency doesn't give spotted leaves like that, the leaves and stems are more uniformly purple. And it's really no big deal with P deficiency b'c when they warm up they turn green again and there's no toxicity, which is what I'm seeing. And if it were a nutrient deficiency that could be reversed with a foliar spray of seaweed or fish.

But if pollen with juglone landed on the plants I sure could see toxicity happening b'c tomatoes are very sensitive to juglone. And I'm the first one to admit that while I know of juglone poisoning from roots and nuts and leaves, I don't think I've ever read about it coming from Pollen. But why not?

Carolyn

Are you growing two different types of tomatoes; one variety in Container A and another variety in container B? Try sprinkling cornmeal on and around the sickly ones. Will not hurt anything and may help.

I am growing a total of 48 plants, of which there are 27 varieties. On about half the varieties, I did the "Noah's Arc" thing and planted them in pairs in the containers. The ones on my prime list (Purple Haze, JD Special C-Tex, Earls Faux, Goose Creek, and Stump of the World) I planted a third "back-up" plant in the other Container (glad I did this!!). The rest are single plantings.

Carolyn, It is not a nut tree, but something more of a small leaf shade type tree. I will post a photo of the pollen and seed cluster when I get home tonight.

Raybo

Carolyn...you're the expert, but you've never seen purple splotching as a P deficiency? In monocots it usually starts at the tips, but I've seen it splotchy such as given in dicots such as tomatoes and soy beans.

Well, at least i've treated plants I've seen like that as such and they've responded well to additional warmth. The "collapse and curl" along with the purple blotches...

It may just be a "chance" thing that it cleared up. I'm not calling you out, but I'm checking for clarification if you can add any.

As these tomato plants went into "virgin" MG Potting Mix, as was the case with the tomatoes in the other container, I don't see how a "P" problem would show up all at once on the 24 plants in this particular container.

Here is a photo of a similar tree that I cut down Saturday, that showered everything with pollen and seed modules:

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I am told it is an Ash of some type (not a nut tree). What is surprising is the size of the pollen cloud it released when it hit the ground:

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This is a photo of the pollen still on my raised bed solar cover even as of today.

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Learned a good lesson on when NOT to cut down this type of tree. In an ironic twist, I cut down the tree to give my tomato plants more sunshine this season.......

Raybo

"I don't see how a "P" problem would show up all at once on the 24 plants in this particular container."

It could happen in relation to where the container is. If its on a cold piece of concrete/metal or it's shaded by a house/trees/etc. during good sun hours that could easily make the soil too cold.

Around here P deficiency is commonly seen in corn/soybean farms who decide to cheat their planting times a little early. Most of the time the plan "B" if this happens is to get some plastic mulch down.

That said, I'm not sold that is your issue, but I've treated my own plants with warmth when showing similar signs in my propagation. Now...it may be other things such as rain/water washing something out of the soil. An unknown environmental factor i somehwo changed...*shrug*

Part of me asking Carolyn my question above is to get some more info from a person who's seen a LOT more tomato problems than I have. I may have gone about solving a problem with a method that may have cleared up a problem, but had nothing to do with the problem, itself.

Well, at least i've treated plants I've seen like that as such and they've responded well to additional warmth. The "collapse and curl" along with the purple blotches...

It may just be a "chance" thing that it cleared up. I'm not calling you out, but I'm checking for clarification if you can add any.

****

I can only relate my own experience with P deficiency on tomatoes and I've never seen any splotches, rather, the whole leaf will be affected uniformly. And my tomato pathology book pictures don't show any sploctches either, and if you go online and look for P leaf deficiency pictures for tomato foliage I don't think you'll see any either.

I used to grow a wide range of veggies and I don't think I've ever seen any leaf problems that would indicate any nutrient deficiencies. If P lack shows itself in other veggies in a manner different from what I've seen for tomatoes, then all I can say is that I've never seen it growing in the soil I grew stuff in and using the amendments that I used to use and the weather as experienced at any one point in time.

Sometimes I would use a seaweed or fish foliar spray late in the summer if I thought the plants needed it, but that's about all.

I guess that's about the best I can do in terms of clarification.( smile)

Carolyn

Thanks.