YEs, if you cross two OP's the resulting fruits will have seeds that are F1 seeds and when those F1 seeds are sown all plants will be the same. it's only after saving the F2 seeds and planting out lots of plants that you'll start to see gene segregation and the appearance of different plants and fruits that would reflect the traits present in the two OP parents and/or a mixture of same.

I think you've seen quite a few descriptions here already of the breeding efforts of some of those who post here. There's been many threads about Hoosier's NAR X Brandywine cross and what some of the selections from some of those are at this point.

And you've also seen the results of those bred by Mulio here which have become quite well known nationally.

I can only link to one place below, and I'll do it for the Online Tomato Vine, which is Mulio's site and there you can see his descriptions of Dora and the others he's bred as well as looking at the pages where it shows how to do a cross, what gene segregation is all about in terms of genetic stabilization and so much more.

Years ago Tad Smith used to send to Craig LeHoullier and I some F1 seeds of some varieties that he bred and this summer I'm growing out some F1 seeds that another person who doesn't read here did. So yes, it is not common for folks to breed varieties and deal with only F1 seeds to distribute.

But I think you might also remeber that Mulio bred the variety Purple Haze and sent F1 seeds to a person who sells plants, and when those run out that's it, unless he wants to repeat the whole sequence with fingers crossed. ( smile)

And he's working with still other directed crosses right now as is Hoosier. Off hand I can't remember others here who have done directed crosses with both parents known.

Carolyn

Here is a link that might be useful: Online Tomato Vine

Carolyn

Thanks for the information.

Mulio's site is the one I've been relying on for the "how-to", though I'm going to have to familiarize myself more in order to feel comfortable about it. And become more familiar with genetic stabilization if I want to "un-hybridize" what I may develop.

And yes, hoosiercherokee and mulio are the two individuals I recall who've posted information about the tomatoes they've been developing. Though there may have been a couple more people, too. I just want to be sure that if I do some creative development of tomatoes myself next summer that I won't work on something that others have already done, like using the same parents.

The Cross Hemisphere Dwarf Project on that other site has piqued my interest, too.

Yes the Tomato-ville Dwarf Project is an excellent example of extensive crossing of dwarf varieties with a wide assortment of heirloom types and then selecting for specific traits in dwarf plants.

And Online Tomatovine is a great source for information to do your own project. Go there.

Another active backyard tomato breeder who has developed some interesting crosses is Korney who posts here and hopefully can give you some guidance.

Brad at Wild Boar Farms also has come up with a huge assortment of fabulous hybrids from which he's developed an extensive catalog of open pollinated tomatoes with a variety of striped skin and bicolor combinations. Great stuff.

Go for it, Anney.

Annie, check out my forum for more on breeding along with the other resources hoosier suggested. You will also find discussions on many of the crosses our members are working with there. And, to answer your question with a little less of a long-winded, name-dropping post....yes, assuming no stray pollen from anything but the male parent, the resulting F1 offspring will all be identical every time you made the cross with the same two parent varieties. Hence, how they are able to continually reproduce the exact same Sungold F1 seed for example.

jtcm

I've been slaving over a hot stove making orange marmalade for the first time, so I'm a bit late today. Where's your forum? Do you mean at T'ville? Or are you Mulio?

Anyhow, T'ville and Mulio's forums are great resources to just see what kinds of fun outcomes can occur. Great places to start and become comfortable with what needs to be done.

Just for the hell of it, I may see what I can do this summer, though I didn't plant any of the varieties with an eye toward creating a hybrid. Maybe I'll see what one of the Brandywine varieties does when combined with Break O'Day or Momohakh's Hat or another OP one I'm growing. [I still don't know how to pronounce Momohakh's Hat and can't remember how to sound it out unless it's right in front of my face, so I end up calling it Mahakh Mahooty's Hat when I think of it.] The purpose won't be to develop anything useful but rather to see if I can do the pollination correctly, protect them from other possible pollen, and see what happens.

And of course see what the results are when grown next year! :-)

Name Droppers according to John:

Carolyn named:

Hoosier
Mulio
Craig L., to say that Tad Smith sent F1's as was asked about by Anney in her first post
Tad Smith, who no one here knows, and used to do F1's

Hoosier named:

Mark Korney, who Carolyn forgot to mention
Brad Gates, who Carolyn forgot to mention
Many folks involved in the Dwarf Project, who Carolyn also forgot to mention.

Anney had said she knew that some of you HERE, meaning GW, are amateur breeders so Carolyn didn't mention any others she knew about.

When Carolyn posts she usually is long winded b'c that's how long it sometimes takes her to answer the question the way she wants to. So thanks for noticing that John.

Carolyn

Carolyn, I think JayTee was referring to me with that "name-dropper" slam. LOL!

I dropped more names than you did ... if you count by inferences. Like when I said "Dwarf Project" that would include Craig and Patrina plus a few, right?

We both forgot to drop Dr. Randy Gardner's name. He's combining lots of interesting open pollinated stuff with heirloom types, too. And on a really professional level!

Anney, I think your Brandywine x Break O'Day idea is great. I wanted to cross Break O'Day x Mozark this summer, but my BOD seedlings were about as wimpy as any I've sprouted. So I postponed that idea. What other varieties have you got started? And if you happen to have some Sun Gold plants, those combine with large OPs for some fabulous results in my opinion.

hoosiercherokee

Yes, the BW-BoD combo might be interesting if we could get a tomato that is short-season and heat-tolerant, two characteristics of the Break O'Days. Coupled with Brandywine taste and size would be great!

And yes, I'm growing SunGolds, both the F1 hybrid and Sungold Select II that's said to be pretty much the same taste, size, and DTM as the hybrid.

What combinations of the SunGolds have been tried that you know about?

Anney,

I crossed Indian Stripe x Sun Gold in 2007 and a fellow who posts at T-ville crossed Cherokee Purple x Sun Gold, I believe in 2008. As you can imagine, the results have been reported as similar but not identical.

I've sent F2 seeds from that cross to several people, including JayTee and AmiDeutch, who both got some fantastic brown cherries. The fellow from T-ville distributed his F2 seeds to several folks who are also reporting some great little tomatoes.

We both, independently, sent F2 seeds of our two crosses to a professional grower in Wisconsin who is growing them out in large blocks. I also sent lots of those seeds to a commercial market gardener in Michigan who is growing out a block of about 50 plants this summer. So, we should be hearing about an assortment of results from those two crosses.

Enough about that. There are also folks with crosses of Sun Gold and all sorts of heirloom type varieties. Mulio hit on one that reportedly is the tastiest tomato that Fusion ever ate. There's another guy in Belgium or France or somewhere in that area who crossed Sungold with Romeo (a huge, pepper shaped paste tomato from Peters Seed Research) and some other far out crosses. I did another one in 2007, Juane Flamme x Sun Gold, which is yielding some nice stuff.

Whole point being, if you really want some wild and crazy results in the F2s and F3s, cross Sun Gold with varieties that are significantly different from Sun Gold. And BTW, when you do, you will not get consistent conformity in the F1 because Sun Gold itself is a complex hybrid in a heterozygotous state.

We both forgot to drop Dr. Randy Gardner's name. He's combining lots of interesting open pollinated stuff with heirloom types, too. And on a really professional level!

****

No, I didn't forget him at all b'c Anney said amateur breeders and Dr. Gardner is far from being an amateur tomato breeder, and even now in retirement when he has more freedom to follow some breeding he hasn't done before, if you will, with some more interesting crosses ( at least to me) involving heirloom varieties. ( smile)

Carolyn, and yes, if I added up all the folks who have and are participating in the Dwarf Project that would be a very long list of folks indeed.

Where's your forum? Do you mean at T'ville?

HAHA, no.

Just for the hell of it, I may see what I can do this summer

There's really nothing to lose. You should definitely at least try. The worst possible outcome is you lose a few potential fruit from the emasculation.

John, who was not speaking of hoosier in my previous post. smile

Lime Green Salad is another one to cross for interesting results. It has the following traits/genes.

Green flesh
Yellow flesh
yellow skin
Determinant
Multiflora
Dwarf

If you cross it with a pink indeterminant it will segregate into
Fruit:
Green
Yellow
Red
Pink
Black

Plant:
Multiflora trusses
regular flower trusses
Determinant
Indeterminant
Dwarf
Full size

I know this is an old thread. But can anyone here direct me to a tutorial on how to hand pollinate (cross) tomatoes? That's something I've thought about doing for a long time.

George
Tahlequah, OK