Although a small fruit, the green zebra Is my favorite in taste. Last year was my first year with them and they were tart...the flavor just jumps out at ya! I'd like to find a larger tomato with that same wow factor:)

Salthart, the vast majority of tomatoes are self-pollinating. Bees and bumblebees do help, however, in that they shake the blossoms when the air is still. That helps the pollen move to where it's needed.

By the way, beans are also self-pollinating.

If there's no breeze to shake your vines, you can manually tap or rattle the cages/stakes which support them. That will shake some pollen loose.

Chances are that there's another reason for your lack of tomatoes.

Have you had the soil tested? How do you fertilize?

Have you had big, healthy tomato plants?

Where are you? Zone and rough location would be helpful. Were the last three summers unusually hot?

You might also go to the FAQ link at the top of the forum page and read "Why are the blooms on my tomato plant dying and falling off?"

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About the Ponderosa Beefsteak:

Plain "Ponderosa" is a pink beefsteak. It is also known as Pink Ponderosa, Ponderosa Pink, and Henderson's Pink Ponderosa. You can probably find seeds at Tomato Growers Supply, Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds, Victory Seeds, Abundant Life Seeds, and Totally Tomatoes. You can find them all online; Victory is the only one without a paper catalog.

The red version is Beefsteak, Henderson's Red Ponderosa, Red Ponderosa, Scarlet Ponderosa, Crimson Cushion, etc. Mostly you'll see it nowadays as Beefsteak or Red Beefsteak. Baker Creek Heirloom Seeds, Tomato Growers Supply, TomatoFest, and Seed Savers Exchange should have seeds. (TomatoFest is online only.) Your local big box store may have seedlings from Bonnie Plants under the name of Red Beefsteak. I grew it last year, and it was a favorite.

I guess I am in zone 6 (Morganton NC) but only a few miles from the next warmer zone. I have tested my soil and I have spoken to my ext agent, both told me my soil is acidic.

I side dress with 10-10-10 and this year I will be using the factory recommended amount of Cal-Turf-Pro for my 100 x 110 garden to try and sweeten the soil a little plus add calcium.

I did put two dump truck loads (14 ton total) of sand and river sediment on the garden four or five years ago. Was my best year ever for that garden.

Agree that the bee issue is not relevant to either the tomatoes or the beans since both are self-pollinating.

The issue is with your soil and the varieties you choose. Of the 250 plants how many varieties are you planting? With that many plants you can easily try 100 different varieties so I hope you aren't limiting yourself to just the 3 you named?

And as already mentioned if you are using purchased transplants your choices will be very limited but if you grow your own from seed then there are thousands to choose from.

Have you considered amending your soil with compost and/or composted manures of any kind? Have you ever tried growing a tillable cover crop on it in the off-season? Tried liming in the fall so it has time to work before planting?

It all depends on how one defines "tart" but I wouldn't consider any of the 3 you list to be tart when grown in my garden.

JMO

Dave

Dave, the bulk of my tomatoes are the better boy, Rutgers and marglobes. (Unless someone suggests something better)

Those listed above are new to me as of this season in my search for flavor. I picked those types because of the write up about them where I ordered online. All were said to be tart.

I have searched for manure locally with almost no luck. other than paying 450 bucks for a dump truck load of horse which I simply can not do. How much is needed for a 110x100 garden ?

Can I use something like peat moss and add it to the hole as I dig for each plant ? And if so, How much ? would a gallon per plant be enough ?

As you can see, this is something I know nothing about. All I have ever really done is plant them with a hand full of lime and ring them with 10-10-10 a few times.

Peat moss provides no nutrient value. It is just a soil conditioner for drainage purposes and it is acidic.

Barring other sources you can buy bags of composted humus/manure at Walmart and the big box stores for approx. $1.50 each. Till 4 bags into each 100 row/furrow as you plant for starters, more if you can afford it. Of if you dig holes instead, a coffee can full mixed well into each hole and then side dress with more after 1st fruit set. I prefer furrows since the roots don't stay in their hole anyway. :)

Is Rutgers close to the flavor you want? Ever tried Supersonic? Sioux? Wisconsin 55?

Dave

Yes, I guess Rutgers is about as close as I've come to the flavor I'm looking for when they are right. But I get them from a local greenhouse and strange as it may sound, they don't seem the same from one year to the next. 20 years ago they were about all I planted and I was always happy with them. A little small for slicing but perfect for canning.

I have never tried any of those you mentioned but I tried to order the Sioux seed when I ordered these I have. They were out of stock. Should I try another company ?

And thanks very much for your help.

Saltheart - I have been collecting tart, or some say agressive tasting toms for my sister who does not like sweet AT ALL. So Far I am growing Siux, Rutgers, Break 'O Day, Old Brooks, Green Zebra and a few specility types. Most I named are available at Totally Tomatoes. LInda

Dave, the bulk of my tomatoes are the better boy, Rutgers and marglobes. (Unless someone suggests something better)

Those listed above are new to me as of this season in my search for flavor. I picked those types because of the write up about them where I ordered online. All were said to be tart.

I have searched for manure locally with almost no luck. other than paying 450 bucks for a dump truck load of horse which I simply can not do. How much is needed for a 110x100 garden ?

Can I use something like peat moss and add it to the hole as I dig for each plant ? And if so, How much ? would a gallon per plant be enough ?

As you can see, this is something I know nothing about. All I have ever really done is plant them with a hand full of lime and ring them with 10-10-10 a few times.

Salthart, this is just my opinion of course, but I definitely think you should try to find Sioux. It is a terrific tomato, and I think it may be just what you're looking for. (BTW, there's a variety called Super Sioux out there. I've never tried that one, and don't know how it compares to Sioux, so I can't recommend it.) Sioux is a heavy producer, great for fresh eating or canning, and has a deep, strong flavor. I just love it! --- Paula

Thank you all for the input. I am looking for those types you all have mentioned and for compost as well.

Dave, I just re-read and as to your question about lime, The Cal-Turf Pro I use is supposed to do in weeks what limestone takes months to do. Its meant to be used spring and fall. I will look into cover crops and I'm open to suggestions there as well.

Thanks again to all of you for your input. I spend a good bit of effort each year in my garden and it would be wonderful to see a decent return.

You might want to try Marion. It is a Rutgers type that was developed by Clemson University for southeastern gardens. I don't know where you are located, but it is more tart and acidic tasting to me. It also produces better than Rutgers for me.

I do not know how much you can, but 250 plants is a lot not to have enough for you own canning. My grandmother had 12 plants last year and canned 72 quarts of tomatoes. She gave some tomatoes away, and ate a lot of them. I usually have 30 to 40 plants. I can around 100 quarts a year, eat a lot of them, and sell several hundred pounds of tomatoes.
My money makers are Goliath. The are huge plants and they are utterly loaded with tomatoes. If you want tart, add Sodium Chloride to your soil a couple weeks before planting. You can get a tomato to taste like vinegar if you want to do so using it. Too much will kill the plant, but I have never killed one doing it.

"Sodium Chloride" Table salt????

Yes, table salt.
I know some old timers who have used it for years. There is now university research being done on supplementing with it.

HReynolds, I guess this is something I have kind of grown into over the years and interacting in this forum has made me aware of the fact.

When I was a young man we planted maybe 30 plants and had tomatoes to spare. I have gardened here for 21 years and the people before me gardened the same spot for many more years than that. But they raised horses etc and kept the garden up much better than me.

As silly as it sounds, I never gave any thought to manure being anything more than organic fertilizer. Or that I was doing what was needed when I added 10-10-10 or Miracle-gro and maybe lime. Its not like I know anything about gardening, I simply do what I saw my father in law do and when that quit working I was left grasping at straws. 30 plants grew to be 250 and in the same time the results have fallen to nothing.

Now, after talking here, I will hold the number of tomatoes to 2 or 3 rows as I am able to afford and add the compost as per Dave above. I'm still in the dark as to whether or not I would still use 10-10-10 ? Maybe someone can clue me in.

Again, thanks for all the help. I have 4 siblings, a mother and grandmother and I'm the only one with a garden. And then there is my church and the shut ins and elderly who aren't able to do for themselves. It would be wonderful to be able to share !

I would definitely say plant fewer plants and concentrate your energy on them. I use 20-20-20 supreme or 10-10-10 supreme if the supplier is out of 20-20-20, just have to use twice as much. The supreme has the trace mineral package in it. I would suggest planting some Goliath Tomatoes and Some Romas if you are wanting to can. Dont put all your eggs in those baskets, but plant 4 to 6 of each of them and see if they outproduce what you have been planting. Goliath, Roma, and Better boy are my plants I can always depend on. I plant a lot of other stuff, but those are the three that load up with fruit year after year no matter what. Last year, I grew some Germans from some seed someone gave me. Each vine was a monster. Every tomato on the plants were 2 lbs plus, but the plants only had 3 to 4 fruit each in the entire season. Good for bragging, but terrible for putting food on the table.

I very much agree with annie 205's recommendation of Green Zebra.

In addition to Green Zebra, I'm trying Black Zebra and Red Zebra this year.

Update, I just spent all this afternoon trying to buy the compost Dave suggested. No one has it.

I had a friend who pointed me towards a company 55 miles away who will sell composted cow manure either bagged or in bulk at a much better price if I buy 3 cubic yards or more.

question is, if I'm going to do this and try to do it right, How many cubic yards do I need for a 100 foot by 100 foot garden ? And will this composted cow manure equal the bagged stuff mentioned above ?

Once again thanks in advance. And thanks to everyone for the suggested tomatoes. I will order Sioux and I'm still looking for a number of the others listed. But after quite a bit of reading online I'm not so sure it is the "Tart" that I'm after. I will try and start another thread about "taste" and see if I get any closer to understanding just what it is I'm after.

I forgot to add this-

Guaranteed Analysis

Total Nitrogen.......... .05%
Ammoniacal Nitrogen.......... .05%
W.I.N. .......... .15%
Potash.......... .5%
pH level - average 6.9 to 7.2

Maybe that will help.
Thanks

For ten thousand feet squared you would be best with two to three yards per quater section.

I have a garden that is less than twenty five by forty and when I put sheep manure on it I put on six yards cubed or more.

I dit it in by using a sand shovel to simply turn the garden over but for a garden of your size that is a lot of work.

How will you turn it into the soil?

My manure is not really composted so I put it on in the fall, dig it in and let it sit all winter then roto-till in the spring.
If you have or have access a small two to three bottom plow. Put it on thick and shallow plow it under in the fall. Then roto-till the furrows down in the spring before planting.

I have never had more than nine tomato plants but I do not can; although I do blanch and freeze them with onions and chiles for chili and cooking base.
I use foliar feed on my tomatoes with Algo flash being the one I have used, among many, that has a record for producing champion plants.

RpR, I would likely rip the garden with cultivators, spread the manure with a back blade and then till it in.

All in all, the logistics of getting the amount you recommend is out of reach. I will have to fall back on working the tomato and bean rows alone for now.

I have found a man who has a horse ranch that will sell what has been cleaned from his stalls. I have no idea if it is composted at all or even if it matters. ( but he isn't 50+ miles away) I'm so disgusted at this point I will likely just go back to 10-10-10 and let it grow or not as it will. Maybe try this fall.

Just to much one needs to know in to short time. Thanks for your input.

Salthart,
My idea would be just leave the soil alone for a while and here is why. You said your beans weren't doing anything last year. Beans are nitrogen fixing and in fact produce poorly when they are fed too much. A few summers ago, I overfed some beans I had and they basically just grew nice green leaves. Here is a pic of a plant I had neglected last year. I was out of space in my garden and just stuck it in some broken, rocky ground in the front yard. Never did anything to the soil but yield was very heavy.
{{gwi:1316026}}

You may indeed be right. I'm just got to break down and send in the soil samples for testing. Its the only way I'm going to know.

Thanks for your input !

It does sound like your garden has gotten depleted of organic matter. I have very coarse sandy soil, and can't produce anything on fertilizer alone. Once I amend it with lots of organic matter, I don't need to use fertilizers of any kind and get very productive healthy plants. Because organics break down very fast in my soil, I have to amend my soil yearly to keep it productive. I mostly add two-three inches of chipped mulch each year, which breaks down by the next spring and is usually adequate.

What you are describing sounds like the same problem the commercial food industry has been running into. Depleted soil becoming less productive and requiring more fertilizer.

I suggest what others mention above. Add lots of compost and/or manure, and grow less, but healthier plants.

Salthsrt..I to love a acidity old fashion flavor tomato..when i was growing up in Minn. we alway planted Celebrity and Champion and i still plant them ..also big boy,old brook,better boy are very good
rawzoom Richard

Salthart11, if you're in Morganton, I think you're in 7b on the 2012 USDA zone map (or maybe 7a if you live atop a mountain or are quite a ways from Morganton). Go here for a high-res state map (the key to the colors is in the lower right corner of the map itself):
http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/Maps.aspx

Or you can enter your zip code here (on the left):
http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/

[I live in a zip code so large I can't be sure what the zone is. Copied the state map to Paint, blew it up and compared it to a map of the county and I think I'm about a mile on the wrong side of the line between 7a and 7b....]

Have you checked Craigslist for compost or manure? Unless you're in a very urban area, it's likely that you can get manure delivered cheaply, or go pick it up for free if you've got a truck or trailer. If anyone near you has livestock of any sort, they would probably be thrilled to let you clean out the pens and take away the manure for free. Before I had a truck, I'd fill up Rubbermaid tubs of horse manure and bring them home for the compost pile. These days I get a 12 yard load of horse manure mixed with shavings and hay dumped in the fall and leave it in a pile to compost all winter. In the spring it is broken down and ready to be worked into the garden.

You are killing your soil with commercial fertilize...it's "Crack" for the garden. The more you use the more you have to use.
Compost, grass, leaves, weeds, horse, cow, sheep, pig, chicken manure. put in pil, make damp, turn every three days, and a little dirt from the woods, vacant lot, somewhere that hasn't been messed with for awhile. Make compost tea, water plants with it and put it on their leaves in the evening. Let the chlorine bleed of your water before using on you plants and making tea with.
Get your garden off the crack. I never buy fertilize. Quit all the tilling. Get a lawn mower with a bagger...empty bag into a pile...there's your compost. Quit working so hard.

When I lived in the Florida panhandle the tomatoes were not sweet... they were acidic and tart and delicious. Slocomb Alabama has delicious tomatoes available from

farm stands. South of Mariana FL

the tomatoes are acidic and delicious. In San Diego county even home grown tomatoes are tasteless. I read today about putting eggshells in the soil

This thread is NINE YEARS OLD! Toss the eggshells in your compost. They take years to break down.