I know someone around the corner from me has some columnar arborvitae, and they wrap them up every winter to protect from branches getting bent or broken by snow, and they also put a deer fence around them every winter to keep the deer away. It looks like a lot of work, and I think it ruins what should be the beauty of an evergreen -- getting to enjoy the way it looks in the winter!

I have thought of getting the Thuja 'Green Giant' tree, which is a kind of arborvitae. It's said to be less attractive to deer than other arborvitae, but I'm not sure it's actually deer "proof" if there is such a thing. It grows so fast that it sounds like it would be a great screen on the edge of the property. But I'm not sure if it likes our alkaline soils. Does anyone know?

Thanks Stevation for your reply. I would say everyone is out in the garden these days, as not a lot of chatting going on. Yes arborvitaes (from our experience) do very well here. We have several large ones in our back yard "behind" the fence and they are beautiful! We do nothing to them during the winter but enjoy them. I have a question for you. Do you know of a nice shrub that can go in the front yard next to the sidewalk to give some sort of privacy. I know most in the area have the front open but I sure would love some sort of privacy when sitting out on the front porch etc. I have a flower garden that is about five feet wide along the sidewalk. I was hoping I could plant a few trees and perhaps some shrubs (but what I do not know) that will give a bit of privacy. If you have a favorite shrub that would look nice in the front please let me know. Thanks so much.

Are you thinking of a hedge or just a specimen or two to include in the flowerbed? I think you mean a specimen or two. It depends what you want. Does it need to be evergreen for winter privacy, too, or does it just really matter in the warm seasons? There's more to choose from in deciduous shrubs, so I'll list some of my favorites:

Hibiscus syriacus (also called Rose of Sharon) -- wonderful hibiscus flowers from about late June to frost. Lots of different color flowers available. They grow pretty quickly, too. Related to tropical hibiscus with the same flower shape, but hardy in cold climates.

Roses of all kinds are also nice specimens. A good floribunda will flower most of the summer and grow quickly, too.

Forsythia has great yellow blooms in early spring and then has nice greenery the rest of the summer and fall. Also grows fast.

Caryopteris clandonensis (called Blue Mist Spirea, but it's not a real spirea) gets nice blue flowers all summer, but is VERY attractive to bees. OK if you want to scare away neighbor kids from getting near your yard! Can die if it gets too much water, though, so it's a bit sensitive.

If you don't want flowering shrubs, I also like Peking Cotoneaster, Red Twig Dogwood, and Yellow Twig Dogwood. And Viburnums are good, too. I have three kinds: Virbunum trilobum has maple-like leaves and a very thick growth habit. Burkwood Viburnums are semi-evergreen and more open with smaller leaves. Leatherleaf Viburnums have very large, leathery leaves and can also be semi-evergreen.

Actually, I just thought of some great broadleaf shrubs that are evergreen (unusual for broadleafs in our climate): English Laurels. I have two kinds, and they're great privacy plants. But I'm in zone 6, and if you're really zone 5, you might check on their hardiness -- I'm not sure if they're good in your zone.

Also, you mentioned trees. I think a great tree for placing in a flowerbed is a crabapple. I have two in my flowerbeds, and they're nice because the roots don't crowd out the flowers, and they're not too sensitive to digging around them when replanting things. They also give great spring color, and they won't get too big.

Thank you, for all the great info!! I wish I had half your knowledge about gardening in this area. What are your thought of the tallhedge buckthorn (Rhamnus frangula Columnaris)? I read terrible things about it on the net. But then they don't talk too nicely about the burning bush either. Perhaps it depends on the area you are in. I actually heard about it from a book for Rocky Mt gardening. The book said it was one of the most attractive fast growing screen or hedge plants. Any thoughts on it? Again thanks for taking the time to answer my question. You gave some great ideas!!

I don't know about those buckthorns at all. Are you planning to make a hedge, then? That shrub looks like one for hedges. My English Laurels are great hedge plants, and they're dense and evergreen, too, which makes them great for privacy. Here are links to the two types I grow:

Regular English Laurel

Otto Luyken English Laurel. Note that mine are taller than the photo -- mine are about three feet tall, but they're definitely shorter than other laurels.

I love those! Do you think they would take full sun. I would love a hedge about ten feet tall (smile) but that would not look too nice in the front of the house. I think the shorter hedge would be nice. Did you do a hedge with yours? I am not sure at the moment rather I want a solid hedge or just scatter some various shrubs in the bed with few trees and perennials. Today I went to the nursery and looked at some of the shrubs you suggested earlier. Decisions, decision! But I sure am having fun! Thanks so much for the info you gave to me.

I have five of the Otto Luykens in a row as a foundation planting in part of my garden, so they're like a little hedge. But they've been growing six years and are only three feet tall, so you probably want the other kind. I have the regular English Laurels growing in several spots as nice single specimens, and then I have three growing together like a mini-hedge under my kitchen bay window. They also have been in the ground for six years, and they were about five feet tall until I trimmed them back a bit this spring.

These shrubs look good without much pruning or pruned formally. They're versatile. My individual specimen plantings don't get much pruning but the ones that are grouped together get trimmed like an informal hedge -- all the same height, but no hard corners or flat tops.

I think full sun is OK -- mine are on the east side of my house, so it's half-day sun. That website says full to partial sun.

Regarding cold hardiness, I looked at the link again above, and it says they're hardy to -10F, which is a zone 6 recommendation. Do you recall what your lowest temp was this winter? Here it was a -7, but in other recent years, it's barely gotten down to zero. Where in Utah are you? You may be a better zone than you think, but I don't know where you are.

Alpine. So maybe we are in the same zone?? I think I got zone 5 from typing in my zip code at a site that was for finding out your garden zone. I just got an alert tonight that the air quality for Utah county is in the red zone. UG!! Not again. I have never lived where this happens. Actually I never heard of this until this last winter. That was something else to say the least! I almost dread winter coming after experiencing that.

I just checked the National Gardening Association's zone finder, and Alpine is zone 6b, just like where I am in Cedar Hills. I'm just a few miles from where you live. Anyway, it's clear the laurels will grow fine for you in Alpine.

Have you shopped at Highland Farms Nursery? It's on 4800 West, south of Lone Peak High School just a bit and on the other side of the road. I actually haven't gone there yet, but it's only a few miles from my house. I wonder if they have much in shrubs or if they're mostly flowers.

Good luck!

Wonderful! I am so glad to hear we are not zone 5. That is good isnt it! Yes Highland Farms Nursery is where I went yesterday to look at some of the shrubs that you suggested. I also saw the glossy buckthorn and it is not what I thought it would be. I winter sowed a bunch of the Caryopteris clandonensis and they are doing so well. I put them in the beds about a month ago. I was so happy that they sprouted in those milk jugs. That was the one seed I was so in hopes of getting results from. They may be the shrub I use out front. Can they be grown in a hedge? I think they are very beautiful! Well you better get down to the Highland Farms Nursery and see what they have. It is a nice one! Do you winter sow? It is something to behold! And no mess inside the house.

Certainly, Caryopteris can be grown as a hedge. I think they'd be best as an informal hedge -- no straight lines or corners. They look great growing in a row. They won't be as private as some of the other shrubs if you really want to block the view from the sidewalk. And I think they only get about two to three feet tall. I cut mine way down at the end of winter, a lot like butterfly bushes. I've read that they flower better that way. But I do lose some by end of summer from too much water. They're on the same sprinkler zone as a long flowerbed that needs more water. They reseed so easily that there are always new ones to replace the lost ones the following year. If you use them, you'll want to be careful about limiting their water once they've established.

Mary, is there a chance I could get some Caryopteris seeds from you this fall? Maybe I could trade you some seeds, but I'll have to see what I have. We could trade by mail or I could just drive down to Alpine. My wife's family lives in Provo so I am in Utah county quite a bit.

Dereks, Yes I would be happy to share with you. That is if I get any seeds this year. ?? These were winter sown this past winter and were put in the ground a couple months ago. They are only four or five inches tall now. You probably know more than I do on this matter. Do you think I will get seeds this year on these little things? Maybe we will just have to wait and see if they flower or not.

Sorry for such a delayed response. I haven't been on the computer for a few days. I really don't know about this plant to say if it will produce seed this year or not. I wonder if it would be better for me to just buy the plant since I only want one or two. My yard is so tiny and so full that I hardly have room for anything. But starting from seed is much more fun. I guess we will just wait for fall. Who knows, I may have some seeds that you would like.

Derek, if you PM me, I can arrange to give you some seedlings of Caryopteris clandonensis 'Blue Mist'. Mary, I could give you some, too, if you'd like. Click my name and then click the "send an email" link from my page.

Caryopteris self sows in my bed quite readily, and I have several clumps of young ones about 6" tall right now. I could pot up a few and get them to you. I think by the end of summer, these young plants will be about 2' tall and flowering. My older ones are about 3' tall (after growing back from being cut down to about a foot this spring) and are probably going to start flowering mid-July. The flowers last through late summer, and into early fall if I remember right.

You should know that they've VERY attractive to bees! My wife and kids made me move them away from the deck several years ago because of that.

Stevation, Thanks so much for the offer but I think with winter sowing I will have enough Caryopteris bushes. It sounds like they grow like weeds. I read you can do stem cutting so I may try that when it gets larger. Do you really think it will be 2 ft by end of summer. Wow that is great. I have a question for you. I have been looking into the laurel shrub and today saw one in a yard that I was driving by. Luckily the yard lady was there so I stopped and asked what it was. She thought it was a laurel. She said it have little white flowers on it. It was beautiful. So green and lush. My question is do you think it will take FULL sun and harsh winter winds? I think you said your was up against the house. Also will deer eat it. Thanks so much.

Laurels will probably hold up fine in winter wind, but you brought up the big downside of laurels -- deer think of them as candy. At least they did with my regular English Laurels. They didn't seem to eat the Otto Luyken ones that much, but maybe they just didn't discover that part of the yard. I speak in past tense, because we never get deer in our backyard anymore, since more homes have been built around us. We still get a roving herd in the front yard once in a while, but all my laurels are in the back.

Still, in the two winters when the deer did eat my laurels, they always grew back very well by June. I used to get mad at the deer and throw snowballs at them at midnight, running out the back door and yelling. Then one year, I decided that everything they ate seemed to grow back fine by early summer, so I decided to live and let live. Then, they stopped coming.

Laurels do get small white flowers on them. My Otto Luykens just did that in May, but I can't recall if the regular ones have flowered yet this year.

How funny. Your run in with the deer! LOL I do love the laurel so I may give it a try out front. The deer may be why I do not see laurel in yards around here. ?? That and Arborvitae I do not seem to see in front yards. They are both a shrub that I love!