If you want to use an organic, you can spray Serenade on the plants through the season. There's nothing systemic that works. What on earth do you find that breaking an egg into the hole before planting accomplishes? That one's new to me!

:-)

I KNOW we all get desperate about keeping our plants productive sometimes, but I am surprised at what people do!

You can also use Ortho's Garden Disease Control to spray throughout the season, which is non-organic but also works.

Both of these products seem to work pretty much the same way. They don't cure the blight strains but they can prevent them from taking hold. Remove any diseased leaves as you see on them and continue to spray the plants on a regular basis to keep the leaves protected against the blight spores, which are either air-borne or live in the soil waiting to be splashed onto the leaves or stems. That's about all you can do.

As often said here, the term "blight" is a catch all label many folks use for just about everything. Including many diseases that are neither Early Blight nor Late Blight or even caused by fungus.

So assuming you are talking about Early Blight then as Anney said, a regular spraying program of a good fungicide is the way to go. Daconil is another brand name as is Fungonil.

If the problem isn't really Early Blight, say instead a bacterial disease, then the treatments/prevention techniques differ.

Dave

Well, I've always gone the organic route and avoided chemicals, but read somewhere about putting powdered milk granules into the hole and breaking an egg... probably like the dead fish method reportedly taught by the Indians to the Pilgrims, it adds some nutrients to the soil and protects from fungi.. like calcium added to help against blossom end rot. I think cornmeal was another preventative.. like pre emergent against emerging fungus plants. Anyway, I read about these things and figured they probably don't do any harm and might give trace elements that will help the tomato plant be stronger against blight. My soil is quite poor.. loamy sand and sandy loam, so I put lots of hay and compost and other stuff on it. I have also read about putting epsom salts into the hole.. I just wondered if any of you expert tomato growers had a special recipe for stronger more disease resistant tomatoes to put into the planting hole. I'll try anything but am reluctant to try stuff that is hard on the environment, bees, or possibly ourselves. ..

As was said above by Dave, blight is a general word, but if you're talking about the common foliage diseases of Early Blight ( A. solani), Septoria Leaf Spot, both fungal pathogens, as well as Bacterial Speck and Bacterial Spot, then nothing added to the planting hole will prevent them b'c all four are transmitted airborne and also in rain,.

They land on the foliage and then infect the leaves.

I've seen no good data to show that powdered milk or compost teas or treatments like that work very well in helping to prevent foliage diseases.

What is very effective is Daconil, which is synthetic but of very low toxicity and doesn't kill fish or bees or the like. What it does is to cover the receptors on the leaf surface where the fungal pathogens normally would attach, preventing them from doing so. It can be sprayed up to the day of harvest so that also indicates that toxicity is low.

There are organic products like Actinovate, Serenade, Messenger, etc. and more, but what I've seen of the data doesn't convince me that it's all that effective.

So I think the first thing you need to do is to determine which foliage pathogens are giving you problems b'c an anti-fungal can help with the fungal ones but not the bacterial ones.

My view is that not all synthetic products are bad and not all organic products are good, Rotenone is a good example of the latter and is more toxic than is Daconil. My major concern with anything I use is its effect on humans, pets, fish, bees and the environment in general.

I grow organically , but when faced with late Blight last summer I didn't hesitate one bit in using Daconil alternating with copper per the recs of Cornell and other sites and Cornell, being in the midst of that outbreak here had the best advice I've seen.

Hope that helps.

Carolyn, who suggests that concerning BER you might want to go to the top of this first page and click on the FAQ's and scroll down until you come to the article about BER. it used to be thought that addition of Ca++ would help prevent it but more studies have shown that's not true. Normal soil Ca++ is taken up just fine from the roots but the distribution of it inside the plant is the problem. Only if soils have NO Ca++ which is rare indeed, would adding Ca++ help, and if soils are acidic that binds Ca++ in the soil and that can be reversed by altering the pH.

Thank you for your well explained response. I don't get blossom end rot anymore..I think thorough watering during dry spells helps. Also I usually don't plant the Roma type tomatoes which seem especially prone to it..But this year I'll be planting them again) I will think about using Daconil and breaking my strictly organic methods (yet I am reluctant to use something that is said to be "safe" for fear that it will later be found to be unsafe) But, there seems to be no other route other than the yearly race between the brown leaves, the lush green leaves and the beautiful tomatoes. I know that sulfur is an antifungal, but I don't know whether it can be used effectively in this case. Also I have considered the straw bale method of planting, but I don't have any straw bales and need to get planting right away. When you used Daconil, did it completely stop the progress of the leaf blight on your plants?
Again, thank you for all your helpful suggestions.

I think it's really important that you make a diagnosis of what's affecting you leaves. If it's one of the two fungal ones then an anti-fungal is called for, but if bacterial,the best you can do is use a copper spray , which is organic, but many folks are now concerned about buildup of copper in the soil.

You also have the option of using copper for the fungal diseases but it isn't very effective.

Sulfur is not very effective at all for tomato foliage diseases, but if you wish you can try it.

You asked if the Daconil could prevent "leaf blight" on tomato plants. Again, if the problem is one of the common FUNGAL pathogens then yes, if you start on a spray schedule as soon as the pklants are outside and reaaply if it rains, then yes, it is very effective. But if the pathogen is bacterial Daconil does nothing.

The word "blight" is just a general word and applies to no specific disease or problem, which is why it's important to ID what diseases your plants have so that the correct product can be used to treat the plants.

Daconil is also recommended for help, and I said help, in preventing Late Blight (P.infestans) which is not a common foliage pathogen, rather a systemic disease that can kill plants within a week or two.

You also expressed concern about Daconil now being said to be "safe" and fear of it being found unsafe in the future. I think I also said above that Daconil is the most widely used anti-fungal on earth but perhaps I didn't say that it's been known and used for about 30 years, unlike many newer products, so I think the chances of something new being found out about Daconil are slim to none.

Carolyn

"Well, I've always gone the organic route and avoided chemicals..."

Way to go! I am an organic grower for some 15 years now and I'm happy to see more people going the natural route. I've never lost a crop. The younger generation is becoming more aware of what they put in their bodies and spray on their lawns and gardens. I hope it's the wave of the future and based on the amount of space being devoted to natural products in stores nationwide I think the trend will continue. We even have competing NATURAL lawn services where I live! And many of us organic backyard growers never used Rotenone anyway and we look for the best, natural, least toxic way possible to garden. That old comparison makes me cringe. It's like saying arsenic is better than cyanide or something. If it's bad it's bad and I don't care how people label it. I would urge you to research the chemical Chlorothalonil which is what Daconil is made of. I'd use current studies. I usually start my research on Wikipedia and go from there. Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorothalonil

Happy gardening!

OK, forgot to answer! LOL I use proper spacing. This is VERY important. At least 4 feet and 5 is better. I cage. Use soaker hoses. Thick organic mulch. Loads of compost! A little fish/kelp fert. A few years I used the Cornell Mix and it helped a bit. Some organic folks say Serenade works but I've never had that bad a need to try it. But I think it's natural and normal that leaves start to yellow from the bottom up as the plant grows. As long as you are setting fruit and the tops of the plants are healthy and your getting tomatoes it's all good IMO. I bet I could get my plants to produce a couple weeks longer in October and look prettier in September by spraying Daconil after each rain, remembering to cover EVERY leaf, upper and lower, to keep that baby green and get another 10 to 20% more tomatoes but I'm not willing to gamble on my families and friends health for a few extra tomatoes. My wife has survived breast cancer twice. Anything I can do to knock down those odds the better...

dont let the foliage get wet and you will not get blight.

Trying to minimize soil splash while watering can certainly help, but a warm fog will happen every summer and set off leaf blight on my tomatoes. This year it's septoria.

I would lean towards supporting the Pesticide Action Network's rating of Daconil as a "Bad Actor Pesticide." Not too fond of its maker, Syngenta AG, either. I'm going to handpick as many affected leaves as possible and if I do go non-organic, I'll dilute bleach 10 to 1 with water and spray the leaves with that mix.

Here is a link that might be useful: PAN on Daconil

For Early Blight as a organic, Mycostop and Mycorrhiza for soil application and Actinovate as a foliar. For Late Blight Agri-Fos (also Exel LG) which is Phosphorous Acid which is Bio friendly is a good fungicide. Alternating applications with Actinovate also is a good team that is effective against LB.
Remember prevention is the key to using these products as once the disease infects the plants it's harder to eradicate the disease. Agri-fos also acts as a systemic which helps.
There is also a new product on the market called Regalia which is derived from the giant knotweed plant that switches on the plant's natural defense mechanisms and has shown to be effective against fungal and bacterial disease.Worth checking out.
For the non-organic folks Daconil has always been the go to protectant for fungal diseases. Ami

Ami, did you use any of these products before (And I think I've read you had?)and if so how did they do for you? I know about Mycorrhiza but I haven't looked at the other products but a friend of mine nearby is using them this year and I hope they do well...

For the non-organic folks Daconil has always been the go to protectant for fungal diseases. Ami

*****

And for some of us who DO grow organically as well when faced with exceptional conditions such as losing all of our plants to Late Blight.

I don't want to turn this thread into a dicussion about Daconil, far from it, b'c I know what happens when something like it is raised as a topic here.

Having researched it a lot all I can say is that there are many many links online about it and if the link is to a site that is mainly organic it will be condemned and at other sites not.

But for anyone interested in a non-biased review I suggest you go to EXTOXNET, via Google, and take a look. EXTOXNET is a consortium of Universities that have pooled their resources and have info about all manner of herbicides, pesticides, miticides, anti-fungals and on and on.

You can also look at the MSDS sheet for chlorothalonil.

As I said above, I don't discount all products that are synthetic nor all products that are organic, my main concern being toxicity as I posted above.

But I'm not the only one who WILL use relativiely low toxic products, be they organic or not, when faced with loss of ALL of my tomato plants and I grow in an area in Upstate NY where last year there was a very serious problem with Late Blight such that many commercial farmers were wiped out completely as well as many home growers.

I respect the right of anyone to use whatever products they might wish to use and in return I would hope that others would respect my right and the rights of others to use a product that we wouldn't normally use in the absence of this special situation with Late Blight. And if someone wants to use Daconil every season to prevent fungal foliage diseases I also respect the right of that person to do so.

As long as someone has fully researched a product and knows the possible consequences, either plus or negative, be that an organic or non-organic product, it's my opinion that that person should not be chastised for his or her choice.

I also am someone who does not like to bring politics into such discussions when companies such as Monsanto, Syngentea, Dow and others are mentioned. I am fully aware of those companies and what they do and I'm also someone who is in general against GMO's but recognizes that there's lots of hunger in the world and for folks in some countries use of GMO crops may be the difference between nourishment and hunger.

Right now I'm dealing with a situation where quite a few folks refuse to buy seeds for Early Girl F1 b/c they say it's a Monsanto product. Some of you may know that Monsanto bought out Seminis Seeds several years ago and one of the compenies of Seminis, Petoseed, is said to be the culprit b'c they developed it and also produce the F1 seed. The fact is that it was bred in France, Petoseed acquired it and for the first three years exclusive rights to sell seed went to Burpee.

In recognition of that I was recently able to acquire quite a few seeds of PSR-37 which is an OP version of Early Girl F1 and have been making a free seed offer for it, I pay postage, at another message site, but I have few seeds left right now b'c there's been a large demand for those seeds.

it's so easy to comdemn others for the choices they make, but I prefer to not condemn, but rather to respect the rights of others to make their own choices.

Thank You.

Carolyn

I wouldnt consider EXTOXNET completely "unbiased". Those universities are often funded by the companies they review.

Bigdaddy, I have been using Actinovate for the last 3 years and this will be the second year with Agri-fos. I also use Azoxystrobin which also works very well and is readily available here in Germany but for some odd reason it's availability in the US seems to be only to commercial growers. I have had excellent results using these products. Have I done a side by side using only one product at a time, no.
This year I'm trying a couple new, to me, soil inoculants. One is made by BioStart called "RhizoBoost" and "Defensor". The other was brought to my attention by Raybo and is called "Biota Max". I will still be using "MycoGrow Soluble" for my Myco's and Actinovate plus Agri-fos and Azoxystrobin for disease. Ami

Keith, shall I say less unbiased than the majority of the websites out there who do provide information on products? At least that's been my experience when running down lots of links over a many year period of time.

And how do you feel about MSDS sheets which are required for almost everything out there, organic or not.

In the past quite a few folks have said that EXTOXNET is not all that unbiased b/c some are funded by not so much the companies that they review as you posted above, rather, the integrity of what they (EXTOXNET) report.

And with the thousands of products EXTOXNET does offer information for I can't see that every single product review would be compromised by conflict of interest.

As for chlorothaonil it's been around so long, as I mentioned above, that I find it doubtful that any NEW information would be presented. It could happen, but I see it as being remote since the product is so well known and has had so many reports on it from varying sources.

Carolyn

Ted, what kind of fertilizer NPK #s do you use? Just wondering, since myco doesn't like P or gets killed off by it rather easily. I know I use the ProMix BX with Myco but don't know if it's worth it--my distrib doesn't sell BX without it anymore anyway and I'd rather use hi-P ferts for the increased fruit production I seem to have wit it.

This is slightly going OT but still on topic because what some use to fertilize may kill what some use to protect from disease, or what some use for disease may not allow many fertilizers to be used. It then becaomes the question which is more valuble--the bounty or it's protection!

As for the azoxystrobin, I think I mentioned last year that it no longer is effective in NY I believe.

Carolyn wrote:

I respect the right of anyone to use whatever products they might wish to use and in return I would hope that others would respect my right and the rights of others to use a product that we wouldn't normally use in the absence of this special situation with Late Blight. And if someone wants to use Daconil every season to prevent fungal foliage diseases I also respect the right of that person to do so.

As long as someone has fully researched a product and knows the possible consequences, either plus or negative, be that an organic or non-organic product, it's my opinion that that person should not be chastised for his or her choice.

****************************************

I completely agree with this Carolyn. Daconil is legal. Education is far superior than chastising. I spent hours researching the same sites as you and have reached a different decision regarding my own gardening practice. We all make choices in life based on different priorities and circumstances. For me, a huge influence has been watching my wife go through surgery after surgery and countless chemo and radiation treatments. We as a family are now very health conscious. You've stated your choice numerous times like I have mine. The poster buttercup mentioned she's trying to stay organic. I was trying to help her with organic remedies and sharing my opinion on Daconil. I hope you allow me to have an opinion on Daconil. Peace

Ami, thanx for the info. Hope you have a Great Season!

Mark, The ferts I primarily use are low in "P" because I do use Myco's. I use BioBizz Bio Grow 8-2-6 and Neudorff Azet Tomaten Dunger which is 7-3-10. But the thing is when you use Mycorrhizae you don't need the higher NPK's as the symbiotic relationship the Myco's make with the roots make more nutrients available to the plant. Plus at the same time this symbiotic relationship also makes it more difficult for disease to attack the plant. Ami

Bigdaddy, you can have any opinion you want whether it is contrary to somebody elses or not. You do what you feel is right for you and your family and no explanations are needed. Your head is on straight my friend. Ami

Bigdaddy, you can have any opinion you want whether it is contrary to somebody elses or not. You do what you feel is right for you and your family and no explanations are needed. Your head is on straight my friend. Ami

****

Ami, that's exactly what I posted above in terms of respecting the opinions of others whatever they may be and Bid Daddy agreed with what I said.

No one here is demanding that a person do this or don't do that, rather, we're all trying to make suggestions and it's up to an individual to decide what that person wants to do, as I also posted above.

Carolyn

PREVENTION IS KEY...MUST START EARLY...ONE WAY IS TREAT SOIL WITH NEEM OIL SPRAY SEVERAL WEEKS BEFORE PLANTING....OR NEEM MEAL...LAY DOWN SOAKER HOSE DOWN ROW AND COVER WITH BLACK PLASTIC TO WARM SOIL, AFTER PLANTING, AND TEMP STARTS RISING, COVER PLASTIC WITH STRAW OR LEAVES TO KEEP SOIL COOL...FARMERS PREFER THIS METHOD I UNDERSTAND...NO NEEM NEEDED WHEN USING PLASTIC...THE INDIAN

On the diseas contol:
I have come to the understanding that PREVENTION is the key. Having said that I believe in systematic, scheduled spraying with your fungicide , from the time you plant. I personally use both Daconil (synthetic) and Neem Oil (organic).
I will go an step forward and recommend the following :

== spraying the bed(s) ahead of planting.
== mulching , with plastic or things like pine bark which in non splashing and aerating.
== Start removing lower leaves from early on, to a height of about a foot, or more from the ground. This will serve 2 purposes: One: to prevent splash and two: provide air flow.
==keep the leaves dry, as much as possible. We cannot stop the rain but we can water such a way that leaves won't get wet. Especially when you prune the lower leaves.
== PRUNING: One of its benefit in disease control and prevention is that it can aide air flow. Most fungi/mold need a wet and stagnant environment to thrive and multiply. This fact is more applicable where you get a lot of rain. I know this because it is the case in the PNW, where I am gardening. Even a lot of pests prefer moist/wet environment.
==Adequate spacing the plants can also help. But those of us who cannot afford it due to scarcity of real estate, pruning is an alternative.
== Support your plants: Caging, staking, weaving stringing are common methods. In my mind sprawling is an invitation to a lot of soil and air borne diseases due to stagnation. Unless you garden in places like SoCal that rarely rains during the summer months.

On the fertilizing:
there is a new practice about the NPK ratios that I subscribe too. It says that most plants need them at 3-1-2 ratio. For example MG blue water soluble is a good one with 24-8-16 . It is also less expensive, pound per pond than any fertilizer that I know off. If you are organic, try to find something close to 3-1-2 ratio

Let it be know, finally, that the above is solely my opinion. And I am not claiming anything about its accuracy, even though I practice it myself.

This post was edited by seysonn on Sun, Oct 19, 14 at 17:22