Thanks for letting us know it's available now. I was actually looking for it on eBay a few weeks ago but didn't find any. I just contacted the seller to see what varieties they have available.

I didn't thnk of asking that question. Can you let me knowwhat varieties they have?

They have Sasa available, which is the exact variety I was looking for. They said that they will have other varieties for sale eventually. I have tried multiple grafts of Sasa, Jose Pabon, and Martinez but none were successful. I think if I do get this plant I will be able to eventually do approach grafts to it because those are supposed to be the best way to graft these.

Thanks Murahihlin. Are you growing quenepas now? I was just curious how large they need to get to fruit. This is probobly my favorite fruit tied with mango. These fruits are harder for me to get then most. Honestly, Qeunepa is probobly the only exotic fruit I cand find here with the exception of papaya, starfruit, dragonfruit, and passionfruit. All of which are not very good. Personally I am not a fan of papaya.

So this tree should definitely produce both types of flowers right? Have you tasted the Sasa variety Murahihlin?

Sasa itself does not produce both flowers and I do not think that they grafted a male onto this tree. Right now it doesnt matter to me if it is grafted with a male because I plan on planting this tree at my aunts house which is right down the street from Williams Grove which has a male tree. I am trying to see how far these trees can be pollinated from. If it doesn't set fruit I will plant a male there eventually.

I have not tasted the sasa variety but two of the tropical fruit curators from Fairchild's recommend it as the best tasting spanish lime so I trust their opinion. I also read a great paper which was the masters thesis for a University of Puerto Rico student that was all about the Puerto Rican varieties of spanish lime and it had some good info regarding the sasa. I included a link to that paper.

Here is a link that might be useful: PHYSICAL - CHEMICAL ANALYSIS OF SELECTED QUENEPA (Melicoccus bijugatus Jacq) VARIETIES

Andrew:

Sorry, but I cannot share your zeal for the Quenepa/Spanish Lime. I have tried many of them and I have two growing in my yard. I find the fruits inferior to the other members of their family (soapberry family Sapindaceae). Longans, Lychees and Rambutans, to me, are way better in not only flavor, but available flesh per fruit. I find the Quenepas generally more tart than I prefer and with rather poor flesh to seed ration. In fact, the fruits are known for choking children to death across the Caribbean because the seeds are big and round and just the right size for getting stuck in the child's throat/wind pipe. While trying to chew the meager flesh off of these fruits, many a child has choked and died. I also hear (but still have not tasted) that Pulasan...also in this family, is even better than the Lychee, Longan or Rambutan.

The two Quenepa trees that I have were transplants from a friend's yard. He gave up on them. He bought them as airlayers in Puerto Rico (where his wife is from). After being in his yard for ten years, he dug them up and brought to my house. I have had them in the ground for probably another 10 years. One of them has blossomed twice....sparce though the blossoming was. Fruit set once.....about 5 fruits on one pannicle. They never made it past tiny beebees. Unfortuantely, we have something I call Cuban May beetles that devour the new foliage and the young fruits like there's no tomorrow. So, so far, I have been unable to have any success with these air layered trees at all. From my class I took years ago, the professor said that from seed, fruit production may not occur for 30 years (assuming you can overcome the male/female tree issue). Obviously grafting and airlayering is faster....but I don't know if we are talking less than a decade in any case. I would also be somewhat wary with supposed grafted trees. This family is notoriously difficult to graft and is usually reproduced through airlayering. I have seen successfully grafted lychees.....but there is very low take rate....and if you can get a larger, nicer little tree through airlayering...why would you want to graft??

Hate to rain on your Quenepa parade...but I thought you'd like to know what my experience has been before you sink a bunch of money, time and space into this project.

Harry

Thjat's all right Harry. The tree with shipping and handling is $34.00 which is actually cheaper then any tropical fruit tree tat I have ever purchased thru the male. I am going to find out if there tree is grafted with male and female branches. I remember a previous post about this and I am pretty sure that they said it was male and female. As far as you not caring for the flavor, that is fine. Not everyone likes this fruit but to me it is one of my favorites. Just like you might love guava and papaya, andI have tried both a few times and ended up spitting it out and throwing it away. What I call the musky flavor is disgusting! I just don't get it! I have three quenepas growing from the pits. maybe I will just be patient and wait for the flowers and hopefully the fruit. I know that we both love mango and that can be our common thread! LOL!
Oh by the way my Cogshall is still growing more flower spikes. The ones that I took a picture of are gorwing taller. I had to move the flourescent light up a few notches, and today I noticed that it has to be moved again. I am keeping my fingers crossed that they develop and not fall off. I will keep you posted. I actually want to start my own blog, but I don't know how. I would like to start my own blog for my tropicals(especially during our cold New York winters )o show other people how they are growing during are winters.

Andrew,
I also don't think you should really try to grow this plant in your area. It would be wasting a lot of time because these trees are not one thats known to fruit very small even when grafted or airlayered. Then youll need two trees and also then you don't know if they will flower at the same time which produces yet another problem.

I have seen a few grafted spanish limes that are doing very well but I think they were approach grafts.

I am not sure but I think the spanish lime trees at Williams Grove in Homestead are grafted. They seem to be doing very well and have set fruit around 5-6 ft tall. That still seems to be too big for your purposes though.

Harry,
I remember while growing up we were always warned to be very careful when eating spanish lime because of the threat of choking. I think the better varieties where the fruit comes off the seed very easily might lessen the chances of choking because there is not so much sucking on the pulp to get it off. I would think that a grafted spanish lime would be a better tree than an airlayered one. Why do you think that it would be better the other way around?

Andrew:

I am with you on guava and most papaya. I like guava jelly and gauva paste, but the fresh fruit...between the smell and the seeds is definitely not one of my favorites. Years ago, I had a white Indonesian seedless guava that was not half bad. But even those had a pretty intense smell. My wife wouldn't let me bring them in the house as to her, they smelled like cat urine. I must say though, while on my honeymoon in Hawaii 18 years ago, I had a red fleshed papaya that was as good as any melon I have ever had. Needless to say, I have never been able to find it to bring it here to Florida. Besides, between papayas and guavas here in Florida....all you get is Carib. fruit fly larvae unless you bag the fruit.

Murahilin:

The reason I say a layer is better is because of the ease of the propagation and the ability to get a much larger start on the tree size. Assuming they are similar to lychees...if you have the logistics, you can layer a portion of the tree with a 4" (in diameter) branch. You need a very large and heavy package of potting material for the roots to form in, but I have seen it done. The layered results are virtually blooming size immediately.

Murahilin,
I have 3 seedlings growing in pots right now so I was hoping to increase my odds with this grafted tree to get fruit. Something else, I saw quenepas that were ripe and were being picked and eaten on a tree that was about five feet tall. I was given a few of the fruit but did not eat them in time, as I was eating seveal other fruit. I have heard from other people that it is possible to have fruit on a much smaller tree. It goes by age and mautrty of the tree I guess. I am no expert when it comes to these trees, but I have even heard of them fruiting as bonsai.
Andrew

Check out the email exchange below. A long while back I emailed this Ebay store about their Spanish Lime ad. Here is her response. Not sure if this is the same place that you guys have been referring to but it may clear up some questions...especially about the male/female grafting.

________________________________________
From: irene@elcaribenet.com [mailto:irene@elcaribenet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 8:14 AM
To: Cotterman, Jay
Subject: Re: About your trees

Hello Jay, good morning
This Spanish lime variety is : Quenepa Jose Pabon (big & juicy). Spanish lime or quenepa trees grow in US zones 9-11 and don't require lots of rainfall once well established. Deep/well drain soils. The female tree is being grafted to a male for guaranteed fruit production. It will fruit according to the size of the tree, the bigger the tree the more fruits. It should start flowering within 1.5 to 2 years not the traditional 8-10 years of a convencional quenepa tree. Another reason why we grafted this tree is for hardiness, better fruit quality and dwarfing. Traditional quenepa trees can grow up to 100 feet. My quenepas so far have grown to 20-40 feet in 4 years. She is growing to her sides and not tours the sky, making it much easier to pick up her fruits.
Quenepas (Spanish Lime) season is in summer time. For those who for any reason can not own one of these trees, we start pre-selling spanish lime fruits in June 15th each year. We normally start shipping by the second or third week of July.
Due to the high request for fruit reminders we ask our customers to please sign up our store newsletter for immediate notification. Last year we did pretty good shipping our quenepas, however, first customers were the ones to received the best fruits.
Thank you very much for your interest in our Tropical trees. Please keep in mind you can also request fruit trees you don't see in our store. We'll do everything in our power to find them for you.
Best Regards,
Irene Marte
Puerto Rico
http://bongosmania.com

The thing I don't get is that if they are grafting female adult wood to a seedling male wouldn't you still be waiting many years for the male part to start putting out flowers?

Jay, didn't you say you ate these when you went to PR? What did you think of them? I thought I remembered you giving a not so great review, but I could be thinking of something else.

Murahilin. Do you still think I am crazy for wanting to grow this in my area? Jay was close to buying it himself. Thank you Jay that is the same place that we have been talking about. I knew that they were offering male/female grafted plants, thanks for baking me up. Murahilin when you really want to try to grow something succesfully normally you can do it, maybe not everytime, but some of the time.
Andrew

jsvand,
That issue was the same thing I was thinking about. But then again they wouldnt know if the seedling was male or not. Maybe theyre grafting females onto male airlayers? I dont know. Once they let me know if they have any in stock I will ask about the details of the grafting. This place is is a different place than the place I bought from on eBay.

andrew,
Yes I do still think it does not make sense to try to grow this in your area without a proper set up like Jay's. I think we might have been talking about two different sources for trees because this is the place I bought my tree from yesterday: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290365993991&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123 . The place Jay posted is a different nursery so if that was the place you were talking about yesterday then you would have a male/female tree. Could you please clarify the last sentence in your post.

Harry,
I agree with you about the larger size possibility of air layers but what I do not like about the air layers is the lack of a taproot. In a hurricane I would rather a tree with a taproot so it could survive the winds better.

Murahilin,
I emailed the same pace you ordered your tree from and they emailed me back and told me that they were grafted male and female trees. I told them what you said about it not making sense for a nursery in Puerto rico to sell the tree grafted like that and they said that there are whole areas that don have them growing so they do this for people who may not have a male and female in there area. I am a little bothered that you would say that it does not make sense for me to grow this here. All it takes is proper heating and lighting and a humidifer. I grow orchids, including vanilla along with some very demnding tropical plants that have all done well for me. The last sentence I typed just meant that some tropical fruits no matter how hard you try you will never get fruit, but this tree has been used for bonsai, and peole have had fruit on this tree. I don't think you even asked me what kind of set up I had. Maybe it is just harder for you to understand that there are a large variety of exotics that can be grown indoors. I had a 7 foot tall ruby red grapefruit tree tat was fruiting in my house. My house only serves as a protector for these tropicals during the winter. My mango tree is over three feet tall. I guess I am just wondering why it doesn't make sense to you. I enjoy my hobby, it has been very rewarding. I have had far more success stories then failures. Does that make sense to you? I think that everyone who wants to be able to grow tropicals in a non tropical enviroment should be able to do so.
Andrew

Murahilin:

I would generally agree with you about the tap root vs. air layer arguement....however, almost all of my lychees are airlayers, as are the two quenepa/spanish limes. In Hurricane Wilma, I did lose a couple of lychees...but not by being uprooted or blown over...only by the trunk snapping above ground. My Brewster tree which is 18 years in the ground, and which you saw when you were over.....didn't budge. I think airlayering works quite well with lychees and therefore I assume with the other family members.....like Quenepa.

Hey Harry,
It looks like I stuck out again. I must have misread the auction details for the Quenepa. I thought i had at least two more weeks of time before the bid was over. I also checked out Top to see if they still had Lancetilla and Ice Cream mango and they were both GONE!!! Total bummer. I have a $20.00 off voucher witth Top and seeing Tmmy's mango dhipment, I decided to give Top one more try. I have definitely decided on the Lancetilla but have not decided if I am going to buy the Ice cream or the Julie. I like the fact that Julie has the coconut/pineapple flavor. In your opinion is the pineapple/coconut flavor pronounced or is it more subtle. I would like to find a mango that is dwarf or semi dwarf that has this flavor combination.
Andrew

Andrew:

I definitely think that Julie has those flavors and they are pretty well pronounced. We have a problem with anthracnose and fruit set here in the humidity of S. Florida. You would hopefully not have that problem. I might also suggest for your consideration the Pickering mango. It has a similar flavor and fruits much better here. Not sure if it would be better for your garden or not.

Harry

Andrew,
It was not my intention to offend you. I was just simply stating my opinions regarding growing the Spanish lime indoors in the north. My assumption regarding the tree not being grafted with male and female was based on the picture including in the auction which clearly was only single trunked. They might of grafted very high up and I just didnÂt notice. I told you to email them and ask for your own benefit . There is no need to list your tropical growing credentials. I never said that people should not be able to grow tropicals in a non tropical environment. If you want to grow the Spanish lime for the fun of it there is nothing wrong with that. I just do not think it will be easy to get it to fruit enough to be worth it and there are probably more productive plants you could grow with the limited space requirements. That is all just my humble opinion though. No need to get so worked up.

Murihilin,
I joined the garden web because I was hoping to meet people that would be helpfull when it came to growing tropical fruits. Ishouldhave realized that people are just giving there honest opinions but I did ffeel that you were attaking my ability, especially when Jay stated that this trtee would fruit at 2.5 tall, and even after I emailed them and got there confirmation that it would fruit fine for me. Now I knew that there was a good chance that I would not get a lot of fruit until I would be able to have a greenhouse. I only gave you my expeiences because i felt like you were attacking my ability. Something that I am very proud of. I guess we were both guilty of miscommunication. I was honestly not trying to get worked up, but I constantly here from people in my community that I am really stupid for "wasting my time and money on growing things I know wont grow here." That is partly why I got defensive. I apologize for coming acoss as a jerk, but I was also misinterpreting what you said. I thought that you honestly were trying to be hurtfull. It didn't help that I have had some really bad news come my way. I found out that I have to have a major operation, and I lost my wallet and none of these are reasons to act that way with other people. Please except my apology, and I hope we can still exchange information that might be usefull for each other. I will still say (in a non negative manor) that I love the challenge of being able to grow and fruit tropicals that are difficult and not thought of being able to grow and prosper here. I hope that clears things up and once again I do apologize. I hope your tree grows and fruits well. It looks like I will either have to wait for my seedlings to fruit(if they ever will, LOL!) or hope that I can get one of the trees from the seller on ebay.
Andrew

Andrew...being a long time member of this group, I can proudly say that we've had ZERO people here that have ever willingly tried to hurt or stomp on someone's feelings or abilities. If anything, everyone has always given encouragement and support.

Murahilin is a very experienced grower and has many high level contacts in the Florida area. We've all seen a lot of newcomers go for plants well outside of their abilities. Without knowing your level of expertise, I'm sure he felt obligated in expressing his opinion...and it is a good one for any and all to listen to. Believe me, no one here is going to chastise you for wanting to obtain a tree like this. Just take any warnings as they are truly meant to be...a friendly "really look into this first" warning.

I wish I was smart enough to find a forum like this one when I first started out. I am sure I would have saved myself lots of money and grief! Just remember that you are not alone in your quest to be a simple minded, climate challenged, northern living goofball that simply will not listen to the nay-sayers.

Well said, Jay.....I second your comments.

Andrew, you didn't misread the auction. There was that much time left, but when the auction has a buy it now feature it is over when someone decideds to buy it.

Oh I see, it's just that they only had one tree for sale. Sorry for the dumb question, I have never bought from ebay before.
Andrew