How is its growth in the wild?

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Matt's doesn't grow in the wild although its ancestors did.

It's called Solanum lycopersicon var. cerasiforme, which means that the stigma is retracted like most other domesticated varieties and thus it's not a currant tomato, S. pimpinellifolium.

Domestication of the tomato took place over time and in Mexico there were and are both domesticated varieties as well as some non-domesticated species.

Any tomato will keep growing if frost doesn't kill it, but after a while will peter out in terms of fruit production, depending on whether it's left outside or taken inside.

One way to perpetuate any variety is to take cuttings and keep propagating a variety, which is vegetative propagation.

Carolyn, who isn't as enthusiastic as you are about the taste of Matt's, compared to other wee fruited varieties, but thanks heavens we aren't all the same and do have individual preferences. ( smile)

I grow matts every year on a tunnel that is 6' high and 20' long with other cherry tomatoes. I put matt near the middle and by the time frost hits matt is at both ends and down part way the other side. No other cherry sprawls like this that I know of. I grow sungold, ss100, snow white, black cherry, and sweet baby girl. I do like the flavor but picking is quite a chore.

Interesting!! I planted it originally because of my son loving tomatoes and he was so small that he kept trying to eat the larger cherry tomatoes and choking, so this was size tomato (at the time lol) Honestly, Matts is the only small currant sized tomatoes I have ever tried. I might have to try some more!
As for picking the tomatoes, they are a chore, because there are sooo many and they all riped at different times on different stems, and just the sheer size of it makes it hard. I had to stand on a step stool to pick it!!! LOL!!!!
One other thing I found interesting, is that it has never, ever volunteered or anything. Ive had other varieties, but not matts. -Cassie

Interesting!! I planted it originally because of my son loving tomatoes and he was so small that he kept trying to eat the larger cherry tomatoes and choking, so this was size tomato (at the time lol) Honestly, Matts is the only small currant sized tomatoes I have ever tried. I might have to try some more!
As for picking the tomatoes, they are a chore, because there are sooo many and they all riped at different times on different stems, and just the sheer size of it makes it hard. I had to stand on a step stool to pick it!!! LOL!!!!
One other thing I found interesting, is that it has never, ever volunteered or anything. Ive had other varieties, but not matts. -Cassie

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but what is the size of a Matt's Wild Cherry? Is it bigger than a marble?

I have a Matt's, a Sara's and a Mexico Midget growing. My Matt's and Sara's are large cherry-sized (larger than a sun gold - almost the size of Green Grape). My Mexico Midget is pea-sized.

Which is correct? I think I may have mixed up my seeds/labels.

Thanks!

Amy Goldman calls them 5/8" x 5/8". Bigger than a marble? Depends on the size of the marble!

Amy Goldman also says they grow wild in Mexico. So re. Carolyn's info, presumably Matt's ancestors escaped from cultivation at some point?

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I think Carolyn needs to try it again...

My description from a few years ago:

"INDETERMINATE. WILD cherry tomato from Eastern Mexico, and results will vary for different growers. It averages 5/8" to 3/4" and soft-bodied, but is loaded with flavor. It has a Brix sugar content of 11° Brix, which is very high, (some cantelopes & melons are 11° to 13° Brix!) The taste, to me, is extremely difficult to describe, almost like a delayed burst of flavor spreading through your mouth when eaten fully ripe! Seeds originated in Hidalgo in Eastern Mexico; it's a region of domestication of tomatoes, and where these grow wild. NOTE: GREW THIS YEAR AND WAS EXTREMELY PROLIFIC AND PERHAPS THE MOST COMPLEX CHERRY I EVER TASTED! DRAWBACK: RIPE FRUITS TEAR WHEN REMOVED FROM VINE."

P.S. Matt's is the biggest of the 3 (Matt's, Sara's, Midget) but not by much. Sara's has different foliage, easier to tell apart. A few others in the same class, small cerisiforme, non-pimpinellifolium:

Hawaiian Cherry
Texas Wild
Wild Florida Everglade(s)

Mark, is that Hawaiian Cherry or Hawaiian Currant?

I have it listed as Hawaiian Cherry, but think it may be called both, incorrectly...

Hawaiian Cherry--60-70 days--Really a small cherry tomato & not a currant species; great tasting fruits less than a half inch diameter, blueberry sized, in large clusters. Very sweet lingering taste.

It looks almost the same as Texas Wild:

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And might as well post the others while I'm here:

Sara's Galapagos, note the leaf difference:

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Wild Florida Everglade(Everglades?):

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Ironically, WFE was listed as a red, but mine definitely was pink!

One more thing...

I originally bought my Matt's from Jim(?) Reimer, long before he opened up his seed website--I bought a lot of different varieties at that time, it was his initial purchase from big vendors to get his inventory built up. It was shortly after Johnny's introduced it. MANY have said there have been both similarities and differences from what Matt's Wild Cherry is today.

One note that I have made and others haven't commented on is the surface of the skin--it almost appears pubescent, that is... hairy. Not like hairy varieties, but more like "dust covered." If you hold it up closely & inspect it, you can see what I mean. If you CAN'T, then I'd suspect seeds change between now & way back then. Sometimes when I describe the taste as almost tongue-tingling, others don't see that with theirs.

Well, its obvious by your descriptions and pics that I somehow made a mistake. It seems that I am not growing Sara's, as I have nothing that looks like that pic in the way of fruit or leaf. I'm usually very good at labeling and planting seed, but this year I had way too many plants and may have messed up. Now I'm upset that I am not growing Sara's. I assume that my Matt's is true and the Mexico is true. I wonder if my "Sara's" is a Matt's....they are so similar....

oh well... there's always next year!

There are MAny wee cherries that grow wild, in Mexico, in S America, along the US Gulf Coast, as spread by the Spanish, in the Galapagos IS, probably by bird disperal, and elesewhere.

When they're listed in the SSE Yearbook it's a toss up as whether they have been correctly IDed as a currant variety, S. pimpinellifolium, or something else.

Sara's Galapagos, for instance, could be a true currant or could be a stable interspecies cross between a currant and a cerasiforme. When I first got the seeds, as illegal whole fruits from Amy Goldman year ago, LOL, I contacted Dr. Roger Chatelet at the Rick Center ( UCDavis) and knowing the island it came from he could tell me the possibilities.

So what's a cerasiforme?

If you lok at the description for Matt's at Johnny's they say it's a cerasiforme, and that means that the stigma is NOT exherted as is true for maybe half of the true currants, the other half having exherted stigmas.

Domestication of the tomato resulted in the stigma going from being exherted, meaning it stuck up above the pollen bearing anthers so insect pollination was necessary, to being retracted such that self pollenization was the norm.

The concern of many when it comes to currant varieties is that they can be a source of X pollination according to many websites, but I know one person who knows them well who says he's more worried about his regular tomato varieties xing the currants.

There's page after page of so called "wild" ones listed in the SSE Yearbook, some have names, most don't.

Mark, when you said above you think I should try it again, can I assumne you want me to try Matt's again?

I don't think so, for several reasons. ( smile)

Carolyn

Cassie -
I have MWC growing in an area I can easily protect from frost, so I'll know next spring if it can come back.

Tomatoes in frost-free areas are more short-lived perennials than annuals, but I don't know how many years they might live.

I have just seen, somewhere, the suggestion that MWC could be planted in a 12" hanging basket. It's a tempting thought but...

It's not that I think it won't grow. With water and nutes almost anything ccan be grown in small containers and even grown productively. What I am afraid of with Matt's is that it will grow all too well. I keep hearing about how big and sprawly they get.

But I am sooooo on the verge of adding one to the indoor winter grow. I have a very strong hook embedded ten feet off the floor, in a very solid ceiling beam....

Should I? Should I not? I guess i could always prune.

WWYD?

Jan

I grew MWC last and this year and they are no where near 5/8-3/4". Mine grew 3/8-1/2" max. There is alot of great flavor in those little guys and they do grow crazy. I had a MWC in 2 gallon pot this year and they grew up and beyond my roof, finally it grew out of the 2 gallon pot and I finally pulled it, bummer.

Damon

Wow. That's one determined tomato plant!

Wonder if the supercropping technique that was discussed here last winter would slow it down some?

jan

Damon, did you water them regularly? At 3/8" to 1/2", they sound more like a currant (pimpinellifolium) than Matt's (cerasiforme.)

The first year I grew Mexico Midget, I thought I had the wrong seed, mine were over a half inch diameter...

I reordered the seed a couple years later from a commercial company and got about the same results.

Turns out that with regular watering, (daily, or multiple times daily if grown in containers), you can change the sizes by watering or fertilizing and think you have the wrong variety.

Likewise for growing large tomatoes--generally, they grow smaller in containers, but you can compensate with water & fert to get to where they should be, sizewise.

Rereading the posts, I don't think I have Matt's either!

So, I don't have Matt's, I don't have Sara's.... and who knows if I have Mexico Midget.

Geez.... what AM I growning?????

What do yours look like Donna?

I would guess that my Matts and Saras are about 3 oz each. The plants/fruit look identical, which is what made me question if my plants were true or not. My Mexico Midget are pea-sized. I'm guessing I mixed up something somewhere, but I'm upset that I don't know what I'm growing. Although, there could have been some cross pollination, as well.

At this point in the game, my stupice, matts and saras fruit are almost identical. Maybe it has to do with the tremendous amounts of rain we have had in June and July.

I'm just disappointed that I don't have what I planned.

I'm just disappointed that I don't have what I planned.

I have an NAR with the wrong kind of leaves. I guess there's always something.

There are also three which lost their names (the allegedly permanent marker lasted about two weeks; I'm not sure if the sun got it or the rain). Luckily one is a cherry (I think I know which it is), one is red, and the other is CP. So eventually all should be clear (boy, did I luck out). Unless they turn out to be gold or pink....

Mark- Yes I agree with you regarding size which can differ from pot to in ground to swc to fequency of watering. However my MWC that I grew in the ground last year gave me identical sized fruit compared to this year. MWC has really been a rare exception for size uniform. Even Black Cherry grown in a pot last year gave me 3/4" fruit and now this year BC is being grown in the ground and I'm getting 1-1 1/4" fruit. The 2009 SSE yearbook discriptions are all over the map for MWC from 1/2"-3/4" and then .5 oz. to 1 1/2 cm. So who knows?! But I know this, MWC packs a hell of a punch.

Damon

Great discussion, thought you guys and gals might get a kick out of this....

Wild Florida Everglades?

Donnamarie, just out of curiosity, did you get any of your seeds from Tomatomania or Tomatomania members?

I have two MWC this year, and all I can say about the size is that they are perfect choking harard size for a 2-yo, who happens to be in love with eating them! Good thing they pop easy so I can deflate them.

tomncath --

But the real question is: did you get seeds?

Ooo! My FAVORITE cherry. I don't care for the larger ones. Grew it in my three-hole topsy turvy last year. Too much considering there were two other toms trying to survive. It was enormous and very prolific. Have it in a single TT this year and doing well. Some broke off, stuck it in a container and that little guy was the first to ripen. Also have three volunteers growing this year. Going to be a very cherry August. :-)

Mark, now that could be the answer to my question. Both my Matt's Wild and my Mexico Midget came from either the internet or from a giveaway at MAGTAG.

The Sara's came from Sand Hill.

From my description, do I have any true tomato of the three? It doesn't matter. There's always next year!

So far I really don't like the Sara's and the Matt's. Very mealy. But we have gotten so, so much rain, that I'm not sure if I'm getting a true taste of the fruit. The rain could be why I am getting so many small, deformed fruit (cracking, catfacing, splitting, etc.) as well.

Donnamarie, the Sara's has rounder leaves. The Mexico Midget should be the smallest of the 3.

Also, according to some late blight tests, Matt's is one of the most LB resistant varieties tested. In two different years tested, it had 0% LB disease. Big Beef, for example, had 63% LB infection.

Lots of rain usually increases a fruit's size, all other things being equal (fert, light, etc.) But with so many cloudy days that may not hold true this season.

Here in Buffalo, July went down as one of the coldest July's in years--up to the last week of the month, we only had 8 days of 80+ degree days ALL YEAR. Normal at that time should have been 31 days over 80 degrees. I believe the avg temp for July at that point was 61.5 or so...

I cut the whole little spray of Matt's Wild Cherry. Mine reseeded from last year when we had a drought. The bush was small last year. This year they are covering the tomatoes near them. I don't wash them like I do other tomatoes. When I do eat them or give them to my friend to eat I rinse them off at the sink. Washing and pulling off the stem damages them. If you get a real ripe one they are great. Also I eat them in the garden dirt and all. I thought they looked dusty too but in my garden they probably are dusty. I like them better than Sara's and other cherry tomatoes but I don't usually like cherry tomatoes at all.

I started growing Matt's wild cherry tomatoes 3 years ago. They are very prolific and I love them. This year I had about 10 volunteer plants! Yes, they are a bit of a pain to pick. I pick and wash them, pat them dry, spray a little non-stick oil on a cookie sheet and throw them in a single layer in the freezer for about 30 minutes. Then I put them in a ziploc and keep them frozen. I use them for chili, stews and any time I need "diced" tomatoes. I'm just wondering if anyone ever tried "canning" them.

First year growing MWC. It is an amazingly huge plant with impressive production. The taste is as sweet as it's reputation. My only knock on it is:

1. Very small fruit

So I knew it was going to be small, but I guess I didn't know it would be that small. I'm also growing a variety called "Coyote" which is very productive like MWC, sweet like MWC, but yellow. I just wish I would get more bang per tomato in terms of size. I like the cherry size that are large enough to cut in half and add to salads.

2. Cemented to the vine

So, staying on put on the vine is a good thing, but my MWC is almost cemented to it. When I pull them off, sometimes it's yummy meat inside stays with the vine. This makes it somewhat difficult to remove. Granted, this is early in the season and maybe this behavior will change.

What I'd really love is a cherry tomato, the size of Magic Mountain but sweet like MWC. Does anyone have any suggestions?

smithmal

This post was edited by smithmal on Mon, Aug 4, 14 at 22:26

One thing I do not like about tiny cherries is that some are loaded with seeds plus have thick skin. To me they are ornamental, if the vines are manageable. Otherwise not much to it there.