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becky137

Question about container planting

19 years ago

I've been lurking for a while and finally decided to join so I could ask questions and participate. This is a great forum, so much information being shared; I'm so glad I found it. Now for the questions. . . I'm getting ready to plant tomatoes in Rubbermaid 18 gallon containers. I have my potting mix and a plan for good support. For the containers I will add some gravel in the bottom to help with drainage. How much? Two inches, three inches? When I drill drainage holes should they be on the bottom of the container or along the sides? If on the sides, how high up? Do I want them a little above the gravel, in the middle, down close to the bottom? I'm thinking if it was higher up it would leave a little extra water in the bottom that might be helpful to the plants - or not, thus the question. Mulch - I'm thinking of using those automator things that fit around the stem of each plant, anyone used them? Are they worth having or not? As for the top mulch, should I use black or red plastic, or would some sort of fine bark be better? I don't have a way to haul hay or straw in my small car. I plan to water from the top of the container, not make the self-watering kind at this time because I'm in a time crunch. I'm moving from an apartment with no outside to a house in 2 weeks and my landlords are kindly allowing me to plant before we move in, but I'm a couple of weeks behind planting time already for my area and want to start out right. Sorry to ask so many questions at one time.

Thanks in advance,

Becky

Comments (15)

  • 19 years ago

    I am growing tomatoes in the smaller 14 gallon totes and first I would say, no gravel. It's not needed. Second, put lots of holes at the bottom and you may want to put some along the sides perhaps an inch or two above the bottom (I've been meaning to do the same with mine but never got around to it). It also helps to raise the tote off the ground if you have a surface that doesn't wick the water out as needed.

    Not sure what is meant by "automator things" unless you are talking about a drip irrigator? Regarding mulch, until last year, I was using plain old pine needles. Then last year I got a box plants packed in nicely shredded newspaper and I've been using that as a mulch on my container tomatoes ever since. Works good too! I water from the top keeping the water down on the shredded paper and soil, although any rain will obviously do that for me. The key is to try to keep the soil from splashing up on the lowest leaves to minimize any possibility of disease. You could use the plastics but that may also depend on if the container is sitting in full sun and how hot that might be where you are. It does work good to warm the soil in cooler areas however and the earthboxes generally use some sort of plastic (hard or soft) over the soil in any case.

    Anyway - go on and plant and enjoy the fruits of your labor. If you give the plants some sun, water when they need it, and some fertilizer (not excessive), they will surprise you!

  • 19 years ago

    You might get better responses if you post this question on the container gardening forum. There's also good advice there on what commercial and home-made potting soils people have had success with. Check it out yourself, but the consensus on some of your questions is:

    No gravel on the bottom. It does not improve drainage even slightly.

    Drainage holes on or very near the bottom. Make them big (1/2 diameter or larger) so they won't clog easily.

    Most people favor plastic mulch. Red or black doesn't matter. And if you use plastic, you don't need straw or bark or anything else beneath it.

  • 19 years ago

    Hey Becky, it's me Becki! I grow bunches in old 5 gallon conatiners from garden store. I use vegetable potting soil. I have a yard but it is mostly pool or mostly shade. So I have to put the pots where sun is. I grow all kinds too! I found a nifty thing at the dollar store. they are little vials of red plant food. I tried them on some of my potted maters and they seem to love it. It is by Jobes.

  • 19 years ago

    I wouldn't say that "most people favor" plastic mulch. Seems sadly, "most people" don't use mulch at all in any container and I know for the years I've been posting here on GW when they first created the Container Forum, I've tried to encourage people to use mulch in their containers! There are alot of folks on the Tomato Forum who actually grow tomatoes in containers and have done so for years and they have alot of practical advice about growing tomatoes (rather than bonsai trees or annual flowers) in a variety of containers that might be helpful. :)

  • 19 years ago

    I've grown in 18 gal containers fer about 3 years now..and in the ground too...but as far as containers,,3 tips..good potting mix (drainage), good fertilization (slow release osmocote)and faithful watering schedule. This year I tried something different with homemade EB designs, but I'll keep to the post.
    I used Jungle growth potting mix and mixed in 2 cups of slow release osmocote and 2 cups of dolomite (fer calcium) and used weed stop on the bottom to cover the 50 1/2 holes drilled in the bottom..water still drains. It may help to raise them them just a tad off the ground to aid draining.
    For mulch I used Light colored cedar mulch 2 inches thick on top. I did use the drip irrigation last year with 4 (2gal) emitters fer plant in a spread fashion set to come on with an automatic timer 15 mins every other day..but even then..I had to hand water..them toms need regular watering..
    Expect regular feedings of fertilizer...every week...I used seaweed mix and a weak solution of fish emulsion ..with a splash of epsom salt fer magnesium..when they start to set flowers..it's a rough schedule..but they did keep up with the ones in the ground,,even surpassing some..
    Support for the plants is another issue..ya cant just pop in a bamboo pole cause the potting mix wont hold it..I used 2 t-post on either side of the container and ran some twine like a florida weave.
    happy gardening

  • 19 years ago

    You guys are the best! Thanks for the information. Okay, no gravel, that's a major question answered. Lots of drainage holes, most on the bottom, maybe some around the edges. I have Osmocote, need some dolomite, have the weed stop paper stuff. The automator things are red plastic trays, kind of remind me of a burner pan for a stove. They're about 8" square, have an opening in the middle with a slit you pull apart to fit around the stem, and have 2 holes for watering/fertilizing. Supposedly they increase your yield, but probably aren't any better than the red plastic. I would probably use the red here where I live as it's reflective; it gets so hot here most summers that the black would probably cause overheating. Heh, my containers are navy blue - I can cut out the center of the lid and hold the plastic on with the outer part of the lid and it will be quite a sight!

    I've only ever used plastic as a weed deterrent. Will the X slit I cut to plant the tomatoes allow enough room for the water to go into the containers?

    The potting mix I bought is Sta-Green All Purpose potting mix with fertilizer and agua guard. I hope it will work. I'd seen it recommended on here somewhere and it's the only kind I could find (after trekking to 6 stores) that came in a 3 cubic ft size. I didn't want to buy Miracle Gro, which seems to be the norm around here. I did see the Jungle mix, but the biggest size I saw of that was 64 qt bags. Let me know if this Sta-Green would be a disaster for the tomatoes. It has Canadian sphagnum peat moss, fines, and something else . . .

    I'm so excited to be able to plant tomatoes this year! I used to have a good-sized garden when my boys were growing up and had room to experiment a bit and try something new every year. My "have to" summer favorite is tomatoes. I'm planting Sun Gold, Supersweet 100, Big Beef, Goliath, Cherokee Purple, and Pineapple this year, which should make for a well-rounded array of types and ripening times. Since these are all new to me they will all be a taste surprise. I don't think I've eaten many home grown varieties besides Early Girl, Big Boy, Ace, Beefsteak, red cherry, yellow pear (don't like, mealy and no taste to me), etc. This will be my summer adventure.

  • 19 years ago

    Just a heads up. Any of those tomato plants that are indeterminate will overwhelm a container, really. They're like something out of Little Shop of Horrors. They do much better in the ground and staking is a must.

  • 19 years ago

    Ehh... those will grow just fine in the 18 gallon totes. I have grown plenty of indeterminants in smaller than that and I still use some no-longer-made Rubbermaid self-watering vegetable containers, along with some 14 gallon Rubbermaid totes and they do quite well. Over the years I've grown Early Girls, Big Boys, Big Beef, Brandywine Sudduth, Patio, Roma, San Marzano, Cherokee Purple, Snow White Cherry, Marianna's Peace, Yellow Pear, Beefsteak, Better Boys, and this year I'm growing Earl's Faux, Aunt Gertie's Gold, Eva Purple Ball and an Early Girl (for the heck of it), all in those containers.

    Just make sure you either cage them or stake them well. You can actually fashion a cage to surround the entire container and stick a stake in the middle, which is how I usually did mine, although the past couple years, I just used a series of stakes strapped to my balcony rail and kept them tied.

    The slit should be okay but sometimes later in the season, when using an impermeable mulch (and not having a bottom-watering mechanism), you may need to poke some holes around the perimeter because the roots will spread outwards and drip irrigation tends to just do that one area. This is assuming your containers are out in the weather and can get rained on.

    I used to use Frank's nursery's container mix and when they went out of business, started using Promix, which is pretty decent (you can get the compressed bales).

    My babies today (they are starting to form flower buds and were planted out on 5/20), all grown from seed. Leggy this year because I was late getting them out but they all have suckers growing down in the lower leaf junctures that I will keep to fill them out:

  • 19 years ago

    Just my opinion from trying the automaters - WASTE of time and money. They did not work at all - I put them in and all they did was get clogged up and not work properly. By the end of the summer I was trying to wrestle them out of containers without messing up the cages.

    I have about 12 I would be happy to send your way if you really want to try it out!

    As for growing in the containers - go for it! I have grown everything in a container that people say you shouldn't. I just may have had to do some pruning...

  • 19 years ago

    I stand corrected and rightfully so. Hey, I'm growing Beefmaster in 1/2 whiskey barrels right now. I should know better not to post 'till I've had a little coffee. I was thinking of 5 gal pails when I stuck my nose in.

  • 19 years ago

    Thanks for the offer of the automators, txtomato, but if they're no good I don't want to use them. Just checking to see if anyone had good results. You never know when some weird thing might really work. Jenny, thanks for the pictures of your tomatoes. They look great. My son and I will be getting the containers ready on Friday after work and I will plant them Saturday morning. Every time I walk by the dining table where my plants are waiting I have to rub my fingers on the leaves and smell that luscious tomato aroma. I love it love it. Atascosa, I saw a picture in a watering or container thread of your tomato boxes with the t-poles and twine and was trying to figure out how to ask you a question about it. I'm hoping you'll see it here. It looks like the perfect solution for our containers (with my huge big son to set up the posts) and I'm wondering how deep they need to go into the ground. I'm buying 8' posts and the guy at the grange said they needed to go into the ground 2 feet. That wouldn't leave a lot of height to hold up my tomatoes. Anyone who knows the answer, please feel free to chime in. I'm planning to use the same method as atascosa, a t-post on either side of the container and twine at intervals with the tomatoes woven back and forth. One last question - how much Osmacote should I use for an 18 gallon container? It says to use 1 1/3 capfuls (4 TB) per 4 sq feet. I have no idea how that would translate to cubic feet. We're so excited to get our tomatoes going and have them to look forward to. My son isn't particularly interested in the heirlooms, but he'll enjoy Big Beef and Goliath, I'm sure and may like the Supersweet 100 and Sun Gold. I'm looking forward to those and also can't wait to try the Cherokee Purple and Pineapple that will be my "fancy" tomatoes this year. Depending on how we do this year, we may find a way to grow more plants next year. Next year I'll plant my own garden starts so I can try what I like instead of trekking all over looking for something interesting.

  • 19 years ago

    Becky, if it gets really hot in the summer, I'd be concerned about navy blue planters and soil heat. You don't want to go to all that work and have the plants die because the roots have been cooked.

    Is it possible to shade your dark-colored containers or even paint them a light color? I saw one post where a guy had set up what looked to be aluminum-foil covered cardboard panels around his large dark containers. Or maybe he'd spray-painted the panels. (It might have been something other than cardboard, since the containers were outside.) Anyway, it's something you can consider dealing with once you know if your containers get really hot in the sun.

  • 19 years ago

    Becky - Yeah, the tomato leaf smell is great! It gives you that sense of expectation and high hopes! LOL

    I have a bottle of that same Osmocote product although I am trying Epsoma's Plant-Tone this year. However if I were going to use the Osmocote, I would still do it by square feet of container since it's going in a tote and that does have a nice depth and a surface. My 14 gallon totes are 20" x 13" (12" deep), which would be 1 x 1.67 = 1.67 sq.ft (and the same for cu. ft). So for 4 tbsp for 4 sq. ft, I would probably do about 1.5 tbsp spread around the plant. My Plant-Tone measurement was easier as it indicated "per plant" (which was 2 tbsp), which I sprinkled in the hole and then around the surface away from the stem. Both products are slow release and the little balls will shift (you could try scratching them in the surface). I actually have a couple of the bigger totes (for storage...lol) and they are about a 1" longer, 4" wider, and 6" deeper than the 14 gallons meaning roughly 1.75 x 1.33 or ~2.33 sq ft. So figure maybe a little over 2 tbsp per container.

    As for the tote color, mine are silvery gray and I would agree with Anney about the heating potential of the darker containers. However with your being in Oregon, except for some of the occasional heatwaves in summer over yonder, I don't think you would get the same type of day to day blaze as other areas and the warmth may even be welcome! But would agree that some sort of reflection might be needed if that does happen and your soil dries out too quickly with some freaky heat for an extended time, as summer is usually your dry season.

  • 19 years ago

    Actually, in my part of Oregon we get pretty hot summer weather with averages of 90-91 in July and August. Which means we have some some scorcher days, sometimes 7-10 days with temps at 105 or so. Ack, not my favorite. We don't have much, if any, humidity, usually have evening breezes or outright wind, and it cools off pretty well at night, usually 20-30 degrees, not like some places where the daytime highs and nighttime lows are only 8 or 10 degrees apart. A couple of weeks ago we were having days in the high 80's and nights in the low 40's! Occasionally we have cool rainy weather in June and then go straight into the heat. As for my dark containers - I'll find something to reflect the heat when the temperature starts climbing. My only other color choice was a metallic lavender and I couldn't bring myself to buy it. They used to make them in a nice "thyme" color with dark green lids, which would look nice, but I don't think they make those any more. I wonder if a request to Rubbermaid for garden friendly colors would get results . . . Thank you for all the encouragement, folks.

  • 19 years ago

    I like the idea of "gardener friendly" colors from Rubbermaid! LOL

    Actually, Rubbermaid used to make self-watering square vegetable containers - I bought 6 about 12 years ago and still have 2 that I am using right now. They were made in beige or dark green and the top sits on a square reservoir base where the 2 ends of a wide wick would dip into water that could be placed in the base through an opening between the base and top (excess from the top would drip there as well). Those Rubbermaid vegetable containers are the 2 smaller ones in the middle in my picture above, sitting between the 2 Rubbermaid totes. Wish they would reconsider selling those again, but I guess the gardener-modified versions of their totes seem to work just fine. lol

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