Hello futurebauer,

Welcome to GardenwWeb and the tomato forum.

I am not an expert on container gardening, but I have read a lot of the posts about growing plants that way.

The size of you pot sounds like it is about right for a determinate and a pepper. If you are not over or under watering we are looking at something else for the problem.

How much sun does the location where the pot is get each day? And what color is the pot? Normally 75 would not be too hot in the daytime for tomatoes, but if they are getting full sun most of the day and the pot is dark colored, the soil may be getting too hot. If that is the case, then you need to shade or cool the pot in some manner. Many of the container growers here will wrap the pot in reflective material, such as space blankets, white garbage bags, cardboard or even surround the pot with styrofoam sheeting to insulate it.

How long have the plants been in the pot? Are you feeding them with a balanced fertilizer? Container plants exhaust the available resources in a pot pretty quickly, so they need to be fed. Do a search from the bottom of the main page on EathTainer, "Self watering container" or SWC or just container and look for posts from some of the container experts on the forum: containerted, tn_veggie_gardner, digdirt, and rnewste (I know I have left someone off!). That list is by no means conclusive, there are others who have great results with their container tomatoes, but they've all been growing in containers for several seasons.

Bets

future: Are they both in the same container? If so, i'd move the Jalapeno to a 5 gallon container (or whatever's available around that size) by itself, if this is possible w/o disturbing the roots of either plant. I imagine it would not be easy since your plants are already blooming (Is the Jalapeno flowering yet?). I agree with Bets regarding possibly getting too much sunlight/heat. Do you have any pictures available? Where are you at in Zone 6? What type of potting mix is in the pot? What's your fertilization plan? Answers to these questions will more enable anyone who responds to help you. =)

The roots showing out of the bottom concerns me. If that's happening, then you must have a problem of some sorts. Maybe plants fighting for root space, not sure. Your best bet may be to buy another container the same size, fill it halfway with your potting mix, then carefully cut off the bottom of the original pot (making sure to support the dirt/plant with something, temporarily, after you cut off bottom), then place it in the new pot (where it will need to remain for the rest of the plant's life)...kind of give the roots some new room. Just a thought.

- Steve

Wow! Thanks bets and tn_veggie_gardner for your informative responses. I will try to address your points in concert.

First of all, I have to make a correction. The container size is not gallons, but liters (I guess I still have too much American blood in my system!). Second, the problem continues. All new shoots and blossoms became very weak yesterday after just a few hours of sun. We had a nice cool drizzle over night and now the tomato looks healthy and strong again.

The plant(s) (yes, they are in the same container) are getting direct sun from 8 am to 7 pm at this time of year. The container is a terra cotta color, but made of plastic. The plants were both in a 4 liter container for about 3 weeks after buying them as relatively young starts. I then transplanted them into the 8-10 liter container after I noticed they will need more space, where they have now been for roughly 4 weeks. The overall soil mixture is roughly 60% "tomato soil" (a Campo Sana product), 35% "organic potting soil" from a local farmer and 5% artifical volcanic rock. I use a liquid organic fertilizer (8-2-6) according to the manufacturers instructions (that is, every time I water). The Jalapeno has 4 small fruits (about 20% mature size) and 20 new blossoms, while the tomato has about 20 small fruits (also about 20% mature size) and approx. 60 blossoms. I am in european Zone 6 (eastern Germany).

My plan following your comments is to expand the root space with tn_veggie_gardner's innovative idea. Also, maybe it's a good idea to give them a little shade - especially during the midday sun. I always thought tomatoes love as much sun and warmth as they can get. Apparently, this is not the case in containers.

Thanks again to both of you for your comments. I will keep you up to date on the progress after I initiated the appropriate therapies. I'll also try to document the problem and solution in pictures. Who knows, might help somebody else out in the future.

Joe

I am new this year and I have found that tomatoes are 85% water and love the water where as Peppers don't like so much water but love the warmth and heat. I would put both in separate containers as big as you can afford with Miracle Gro Organic potting mix. Then use Quick start (Miracle Gro) for the transplanting part and I use Bonnie Herb and Garden Liquid Fertilizer.
Good luck,

Dusty

Here is a link that might be useful: my pool container garden

8-10 liters is NOT sufficient for one those plants, much less both. I have my Patio tomato in a 5 gallon bucket and my jalapeno in a 3 gallon nursery pot. They both still require daily watering in our current 85-95 degree heat.

You need to separate your plants and let the jalapeno get a tiny bit less water. You may be drowning it. Too much water can increase bad bacteria around the roots.

After separating, move both plants into partial shade until they recover from the stress.

Ted

Thanks containered and organic_dusty.
My problem is space. That is the reason why I had the (apparently bad) idea of planting both plants in one container. I had the same type of tomato in the same container last year and it did quite well, producing over 50 fruits, up until a severe spider mite invasion in August.

Is it not to late to separate the plants without damaging the roots? Their roots are surely intertwined, given that the plants have been in the container for over a month.
The Jalapeno is not drowning. It is going strong and the peppers are growing quickly (from null, blossom falling off to approx .8 inches in just one week). The problem is the weakening of the new shoots and tomato blossoms as soon as it receives a few hours of direct sun. Would you not agree that tn_veggie_gardner's suggestion to expand the soil volume in the vertical direction (my problem with space is mostly in the horizontal direction - I have lots of other goodies on my patio like basil, mint and eggplant) is a better alternative than damaging the roots through separation? Using his method, I can give the plants at least another 5 liters of root space. Further, I can water the tomato as needed through the gap between the two overlapping containers while leaving the pepper side somewhat drier.

If you have good experience with separating plants after their roots are intertwined, please inform me about your procedure. This too could still be an option.

thanks again!

Joe

sorry to spoil your day but you have 1 of 2 options at this point.

1) Get a big enough container for both of them. " at least 5 gallon size but wide enough to keep them 18 inches apart.

2) kill one by breaking it in half and planting the "chosen one" in at least 3 gallon pot of some sort.

I've grown patio every year in a 3 gallon pot with great success. actually this year my first harvest was from a patio hybrid. I also grow all kinds of peppers and found that a 10 inch wide pot will work perfect.

good luck

Rick

Sorry but I have to agree as the problems you describe - weak stems, wilting in the day and recovering overnight, roots out the bottom of the container - are all classic symptoms of root bound plants.

If you don't move both (separation at this time would likely be lethal to them) to a MUCH larger container you will probably lose both. The only other option would be to sacrifice one but with a bigger container (I'd recommend 10 gallons minimum) you can keep both.

Dave

Thanks digdirt and panfan1121.

I've decided I'll have to go with larger container, although I dread transplanting at this stage. It seems the diagnosis is simply crowded roots. I really don't have the space for 10 gallons if I want be on my patio, but will somehow manage something in the 6-8 range. As mentioned earlier, I will be documenting the progress of therapy in pictures soon and hope to hear your comments there as well.

Joe

Hi Joe,

Nice to "meet" you.

Ten liters (IIRC, and my math does not fail me) is about 2.5 gallons, so yes, those babies are crowded. Each should have about twice that on it's own usually. Double-decking your pot is likely your best option at this point.

The tomato is most likely running out of water during the day, and/or it is getting too hot.

Good luck making it happier.

Bets

I've posted some pictures of the tomato before and after transplanting from a 12 liter (roughly 3 gallon) plastic container to a 32 liter (roughly 7 gallon) basket.

Both plants seem to be doing fine now, but the temps have not gone above 75F in the past several days. We'll have to see how they do in July.

Thanks for all your help!

Joe

1. Both plants can't grow well enough in the size container.

2. They have different watering requirements and won't both be happy together even in a larger container.

3. I would recommend you try to separate them (even with a brutal spade division) and put them in separate containers.

The tomato will recover quickly. I'm not sure about the pepper (I don't grow hot peppers) but they generally have smaller roots, so it may work fine.

Thanks yardenman, nice to get feedback from an organic gardener.

I'm aware that the container size is too small, but at least it's not as bad as it was. I simply do not have enough space to plant them separately or go to an even larger container. As for the differnt watering requirements, the container is now large enough to limit watering somewhat to the side of the thirsty tomato. We'll have to see how they are doing after about 3-4 weeks of some better weather (we have had nothing more than 70 degree days here for over 2 weeks now). By that time, I think I will have already had my first harvest. Actually, the plants are doing just fine now. There are at least 10 jalapenos ranging from .5 inches to 2 inches in length and severals scores of new blossoms. The tomato is obviously doing better since transplanting. The formerly weak blossoms are now standing tall with fruits setting and a few of the some 30 fruits are now in mature size (but have not begun to turn red). I've begun training the plants to grow in different directions. The jalapeno has taken to this method well and is forming a canopy over part of the tomato. They will both surely run out of room before the season is over, but I'm convinced I'll get a few good harvests before then. I'll be documenting the progress in the "Post your tomato pics" threads. The next time I post there, I'll even post in the current thread and link the images so that people won't have to leave the GardenWeb site.

Joe

I have been reading your help with tomatoes. So far my problem hasn't come up. My tomatoes was doing great until about a week ago. Now the leaves are curlimg up. Don't see any bugs on the leaves. They are loaded with tomatoes. Help.