Alps,

I was hoping someone else would answer your post but since they haven't, I'll give it a shot.

Yes, by all means, go ahead and get the tub - sounds like it would make a really neat bin. And yes, worms could be held over winter even in NY, tho they would't do much unless you could keep the bin at around 75 deg.

It would have to be insulated and the worms would probably go dormant until the weather warmed enough for them to "do their thing". What you would be trying to do in the winter is keep them from freezing solid!

I live in central Texas - we really don't have the cold problems that ya'll do!!:)

bruce

Hi,

I read that some people use raw manure to keep the bedding from freezing. I don't know how they go about it. Some other people put a light over their insulated bin . Some use aquarium heaters.

Even if you don't do any of the above, worms sensing the danger will produce more cocoons which will hatch when temperature gets appropriate.

Sylvie

Another thought would be to put heating cables about mid-depth in the tub. Those used in greenhouses for starting seedlings maintain a temp of about 75 deg.

You'd still have to figure a way to insulate the sides and top of the bin without going to too much expense. Some people use bales of old hay around they're outdoor bins.

just a thought

bruce

Thanks for the ideas. I don't have electric in or near the garage(but it will be out of the wind), so any type of heater is out. Maybe something solar to help warm them in the spring...

Bales of straw sound OK, but I think they would only delay the inevitable freezing soild of the contents. I'm guessing that worms just go below the frost line in the winter, but in a tub they wouldn't have that option.

Would the worms go dormant, or would they die from being frozen soild for 4 months? And they, or at last their offspring, would come back in the spring??

I have some experience with overwintering worms in a cold climate. I lived in Colorado until this year. I had my worms outside in a 55 gal drum cut in half length wise. I put the worms in a sheltered area (enclosed) and surrounded the worms with hay and bedding, lots of it. The next spring as things warmed they went nuts and multiplied like crazy. I did recess the drum about 9" into the ground. You could partially recess the tub for ground heat and they won't freeze solid with lots of insulation/bedding, I used sawdust immediately next to the drum. You will need to add a gallon or two of water whenever you have a warm spell for three or four days.

Thanks for the info, Bill. I'm glad to know that someone else was successful with outdoor worms in a cold climate. I really wanted to keep the tub elevated.That way I could use the drain to collect the "tea". But maybe it dosen't even work that way anyhow. Once the tub is in place and filled, it isn't going to be moved again.

Elevating it sounds like a good idea to me. I never rinse my worms and they still produce enough leachate that I'm glad I have a spigot on the C-O-W. What about permanent tubing and intermittently connecting a small, inexpensive pump? Elevating sounds better but the pump might be doable.
As far as keeping it warm, some people use hay bales and manure set up as a hot compost pile around their bins- insulation and warmth. The advantage would be it would all be compost ultimately.

Maggie

Elevation will cause you to monitor the system more than in the ground. It can dry in high winds and if forgotten can freeze in very cold weather. If you leave the tub drain open leachate won't build up. Why do you collect it. Most posts I see say that the leachate is not worm tea and hasn't been shown to have any special properties. It can be anerobic which is not necessarly good for plants or beneficial animals. Do a search on worm tea and read a few of the posts.

I keep my worms inside my garage here in Alaska, but I've been told that even here you can keep an outside bin. There are two routes to go, apparently -- you can bury/insulate your bin, and although just about all activity will cease, with enough protection, some people here claim to overwinter a bin outside with worm survival. One person I talked to had piled up his horse manure compost pile around the bin in late October, and the compost pile generated enough warmth to keep the worms alive. The other approach is to accept nature, and the fact that the worms will die. The cocoons survive fine, though, will hatch in the spring, and the bin will start to process again.

I prefer to keep my tubs inside, so my worms don't freeze, kitchen waste continues to be processed all winter long and in spring I have castings ready to use in the garden...

Leachate is just that ... excess water in the bin leaching out. It really isnt the compost tea ... although in the later stages of the compost development it may have a better effect.

The main thing to consider when trying to overwinter is insulation.

Keeping it out of the wind can help to keep keep temps up quite a bit.

You also want the largest bin you can work with ... larger the bin more stable the environment.

As those old tubs are EXTREMELY heavy ... once its in place and full of bedding etc, it will be pretty near impossible to move. So place it well before starting to fill it.

OPtimal would be to bury the bin in the ground so the majority of it is below the frost line. Here the frostline is at 18".

Other options would be to build a box around the tub and fill the box with ridgid foam insulation and dirt. If built well and with a hinged lid this could also serve as a workbenc in the garage.

A few disadvantages of using an old tub is that they are really hard to drill and without extra holes dont provide alot of ventilation. Weight is a definite issue.

Ive also found that there really isnt as much leachate as people fear there will be. Dirt or a container under the drain will help with what little you will actually get.

Bryan

I'm in Zone 7, so much warmer most of the time, but we do get our share of ice storms in the winter, and last year (after my husband booted it out of the basement) my worm bin overwintered in a pile of mulch. I have a large rubbermaid bin--in the summer it's pushed to the edge of the woods for shade and, as I mentioned, last winter I pushed it into the mulch pile and piled mulch around 3 sides. Kept it accessible so I could still fill it with kitchen scraps, worms very happy & alive come spring....