Speaking of things that will blow ones mind:

100 TRILLION!!! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gut_flora

This has little to do with the thread other than to fortify your posts' example of how woefully we understand it all. Or any of it.

chuckiebtoo

Moderation, Patience, Diversity, Stupidity Awareness

Keep those cards and letters coming in, Barbararose! I MEAN it! The following is NOT directed at you in any way, shape, or form.

The skeptic in me has several questions, but those aside, I 'wonder' about the choice of words used here. I think the choice was 'for effect'. Here is what I am referring to (dangling a participle and all): "Just ONE tree... and identified over 400 kinds (emphasis mine), of bacteria." The interesting choice of words: Not "species", but "kinds". I don't even know what that means in the context of a "research" paper.

Bacteria are just about at the "bottom" of the "living things" kingdom. Even among bacteriologists, there is enormous debate about when one bacteria species "morphs" into another. So... I am skeptical/unimpressed with "400 kinds" of bacteria, just as I am unimpressed with 7000. My response is mostly, "So what?" So "we" don't know every place every bacteria on the planet inhabits. I'm inclined to a response of "duh". This "amazement" with "our" level of ignorance is a patent-able illustration of the "buy in" to the "religion" of science that is PURPORTED to have "all the answers" and when "we" (the priests of science) find something "new", everyone, (but not everyone), stands around "wowing" about how "fascinating" the natural world is. The real amazement should be the amazement that the discovery is "amazing".

"We" are PROFOUNDLY ignorant of the world around us; even the priests of science! The arrogance of how "smart" or even knowledgeable "we" are is stupefying!

I am slapped in the face with the arrogance of "science" every time there is "amazement" at some new "discovery". And I am depressed by the fastest growing religion on the planet - "science".

Paul

In My Experience, it is difficult to know a lot (about something) and to attempt to communicate with some one or folks in plural, who know little (about the subject that's on the table) and, often, could care less.

Just guessing, I think it keeps some wise people quite silent.

Therefore I forgive or tolerate the arrogance we are experiencing from the garden professors and, I think, Ingham.
It is tiring to Know It All and live among people who seem to know Nuttin ! There are and have been a few saints who were very wise and accepting of human imperfection. But again, my impression is that they tended to be quiet.

How I deal with this personally is to make Learning my priority.
If I have to accept some condescension to learn something I want to know, I'll take it. Fortunately, I tend to be greedy about wanting to know stuff. If it is a long term connection, I might lobby for more respect. Otherwise I just lump it.

I'm not advising. Just reporting. IMO Rants are fun and often informative. ; )

I do not share your tolerance for arrogance, Barbararose, even when gagging down that arrogance is the 'cost' of 'education'. In my opinion, there is NO excuse for arrogance.

"Not talking" to the "unwashed" is one option, but I consider that a form of arrogance in most but not all cases. (In some cases its just an inability to communicate effectively.) If one has been BLESSED by education, followed by experience, leading to knowledge, and one CHOOSES to keep that knowledge to oneself because talking to the "ignorant" is "tedious", that's lazy and arrogant. SHAME on "them".

I have spent most of my adult life in the professional scientific 'arena'. It has ALWAYS been my attitude that the GIFT of education, experience, and knowledge, come with the OBLIGATION to share that knowledge with those less FORTUNATE with respect to education and experience. "Those" folks are NOT less "smart", they are less fortunate. There but for the grace of God go I.

Among the moments of my professional career that I cherish most are those few comments by "regular folks" that offered me sincere thanks for TAKING THE TIME AND MAKING THE EFFORT to explain technically and scientifically complex issues in ways those not technically and scientifically trained could understand.

The expression "ivory tower" didn't come about by "accident", and it is more apropos today than it has EVER been.

I am one of "those" that does indeed withhold my knowledge from "some". Want to know 'who' that "some" is? The arrogant. I have a PILE of research in my fields of professional endeavor that will not be published until I am dead. Why? Because of the arrogance and corruption of the scientific community as a whole. And it isn't "a few bad apples". The TRUTH is, there are only a few good "apples". Sadly, lay people look to "their" scientific advisors just like they look at "their" politicians: "MINE is "honest". It's all those OTHER politicians (or scientists or lawyers, or whatever "expert" they "love") that are the liars." The VAST majority of the scientific community is corrupt (meaning they perpetrate scientific fraud, OR they look the other way when they observe it, WHICH IS JUST AS BAD), AND arrogant.

The bottom line for me is simply this: Arrogance pisses me off in all its overt and passive forms.

Paul

Fair enough. But don't die.
Ignoramuses ( like me ) need you.

This isn't false humility -- just acknowlegement of what I don't know, would like to learn, and sometimes am slow to grasp.