If you're excited now, wait til you get the vermi. For most of us, worms are more than perfect poop producers. They become, as illogical as you may think, OUR little worms. We have chosen the responsibility of nurturing them. We become obsessed with their welfare. We mourn if even one little wiggler, suicidal or not, winds up crispy a foot or so from the protection of the bin...the bin YOU obviously didn't prepare to the poor departed one's satisfaction.

Are you sure you're prepared for this venture? Not unlike parenthood, your life is about to be changed forever. Never again will you enjoy such a simple pleasure as bream fishing with a cane pole, cork, and a worm...a worm that could become a billion worms, under ideal conditions with a little help from another wiggler in that little bait cup.
Artificial lures are in your fishing future.

Imagine the guilt you would experience when, like myself, you momentarily, just that one time, ignore your inherent responsibilities for a bin of totally trusting worm that you, yourself, placed in harms way that wound up crunchy and smelling like deaths revenge all over the interior of your van. It is not a pretty thought. It isn't pretty factually, either.

That said, nothing, excluding gratuitous sexual encounters with my wife, gives me as much pleasure as groping for worm perfection, if they aren't already at that point.

Have a great worm adventure!!

Chuckiebtoo

TMI Chuckiebtoo....TMI ! (My respects to the Mrs. - LOL)

So Blutranes, lets begin at the beginning - what are you gonna do with that 1/8" drill bit?
Did you discover a bin design that looks good to you?
What are you thinking?

GentlemenÂ

I am ready for this adventure called vermicomposting, trust me. I am one of those kinds of gardeners that will check his compost before he goes to bed at night to make sure all is well. I have my wacko badge gold plated, I never leave home without it. I am chomping at the bit, ready for this ride, just push the button and get out of the way.

The drill bit is for drilling holes in the Rubber Maid container I just commandeered out of the barn, I have plenty out there full of junk a worm would be happy to call home. I plan on making a wooden bin, kind of large due to the heat we experience here as well as the cold nights that pop up from time to time this time of the year. I have a concern about fire ants, but I would like to create an in-ground bin behind my compost bin complex. I am in the process of erecting a hoop house, 14X60, and I want them worms to make compost morning, noon, and night.

I am not hard to get along with, thus my worms will only have to satisfy three things for me and all will be well. All I am asking them to do isÂ
1. Eat
2. Go to the bathroom
3. Have sex
The rest will be taken care of by yours truly. I feel this will be a fair exchange for the accommodations I will be happy to provide. I am looking for a good spot for the first bins; my thinking is behind the shed on the north side of the building.

I wont get long winded, for I have many questions to ask, but first things first. I am just happy to be joining a group of people who are committed to taking care of business, worm business. IÂll be backÂ

Blutranes

These are my thoughts so far as to setting up the binÂ

Bedding: Mulched straw, leaf mould, cardboard moistened per damp sponge. Also, a thin layer of finished compost covering bedding as inoculate.

Food: Collard, Mustard, and Turnip greens scraps, vegetables scraps, cornmeal, alfalfa meal/pellets, fish meal/pellets, maple leaves, and partial finished compost. Mix ingredients then spread thinly over bedding, cover with moist straw/shredded newspaper and cardboard.

Feeding: Start slow with thin layers until worms dictate adding food. Use layer method, then pocket method to observe which worms is more active feeding on, then uses that method.

Human: Be attentive, show patience, and stay out of the way. Let compost happen, not make it happen.

That is where I am so far, any suggestions?

Blutranes

Relax and let it happen. You sound like you will be totally involved with your 'herd' and that is good. Just dont get carried away watching or messing with their home all the time. I like your plan so let it happen.

Blutranes...Just a thought, as I was looking at your feedstock. Beware adding cornmeal, alfalfa and other grains as you do not want a hot compost. This can happen quickly, in a plastic bin especially, and cook your worms, or at least send them hiking.

Ive found that ideal is a bit wetter than I actually like groping around in, but if the worms like it, I have to accomodate them! I just found potworms for the first time, ive had BSF, mites, pseudoscorpions, and pillbugs....

I think people with ant problems usually put their bin on a small table or sawhorses, with the legs in a bucket or pail of water. the "moat" keeps the ants from getting into the bin. (might you need a goldfish for mosquitoes, maybe!)

good luck, youll fit right in ;-)

BillR12: Will do it just as you have suggested, relaxed and easy, keeping nose out of the worm box unless a reason shows.

SQH1, or is it Susie if I may?: Your words ring true I do believe. What I plan to do is let the meals soak in a tea then spray lightly on the bedding. I am thinking that way the meals will be spread over a large area and be diluted. As the worms eat the microbes on the bedding they will be eatting the meals as well. If this sounds like something you feel would work I would appreicate your thoughts. We don't want a herd of popcorn in our bin, now do we?

garnetmoth: With your words in mind I remember I have an old metal bookrack under the barn doing nothing. I am thinking I can set it up, place the legs in empty 4 pound Maxwell House coffee cans filled with water. I can secure it to the shed roof, using the shelf to sit the bins on. That should put a halt to those cursed, evil, pain inflicting fire ants. I tolerate them to some degree behind my hot compost piles, but we are not interested in them being room-mates to the wigglers.

Thanks all for the great suggestions so far...

Blutranes

Me TOO!!!!!
My son n I want to give this a try.

Here's what we got so far. I bought a "Worm Storage And Carrying Kit", comes with bedding, and a cup with "worm food" in it. I know that this box isn't for long term living quarters, but we just want to see if we can do this. We bought 2 dozen Canadian Nightcrawlers from the local bait shop. Then later bought another 3 dozen, thinking that it'd be easier for them to find eachother. This was 3 days ago. How we doing so far?

It's set up in my basement, it stays about 60-75 degrees all year down there.

I've been searching the Web, that's how I found you guys, for more information. I'm having trouble finding a few answers.

Was buying worms from the bait shop a good idea, our should I have gotten "Egg Capsules"? (and where might I get them?)

Temporature is important, are there better worms for my temporature situation? European or African Nightcrawlers maybe?

I've ordered a book, "The Worm Farm", (written by George's brother, Klem Orwell,.....I'm kidding!!), but I did order the book.

That's it so far, how we doing??

NiftyNabber -
Are you trying to grow the worms for fishing, or for composting? If you are trying to use the worms for composting, it is my understanding that the nightcrawlers are not the best choice. You probably want to use redworms (Eisenia fetida). There are numerous sources for redworms on the net. There have been several threads discussing people's preferred sources - I've used WormWoman.com. I don't know much about nightcrawlers, but with only 60 worms, it will take a while for you to have a significant number of worms. Most people start with a pound or two of worms. Don't think this will break the bank, however. Bait shops are pretty high. You should be able to get a pound of worms for under $20, not including S&H.

If you are growing worms for fishing, unfortunately I don't know how well redworms work v. nightcrawlers. I do know that my boys and their grandfather have had good luck with my redworms. When they go fishing, they just grab a handful out of the bin. They tell me the fish haven't had any complaints.

As far as information on the net goes, someone started a thread with recommended websites earlier. Here's the link: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/verm/msg111718499882.html?17

I also have a listing of recommended websites on my blog - they are on the right hand side of the page. http://jasonswormbin.blogspot.com/.

If you have the time, I'd also recommend reading through the various threads, paying particular attention to posts by Kelly_Slocum, Chuckiebtoo, AbbeysDad, and SQH1. (I hope I didn't leave anyone off...these are just the names that come to mind quickly). Chuckiebtoo started a thread with various search terms that several people have referred to. I think the search functionality on this board is broken right now, so that may slow you down.

Blutranes - I apologize for highjacking your thread to address NiftyNabbers post. I hope this is helpful information for both of you. I know that my bins have been a lot of fun since I started them. Good luck!

Blutranes..Sprinkiling that meal is a very good idea and the worms really love it.
NiftyNabbers...I do not think Canadian Nightcrawlers are well suited for a bin situation as the are not surface dwellers, and they will not thrive. Redworms are very good and reproduce the quickest. European Nightcrawlers are a bit larger than redworms and do not reproduce as fast, but do very well in a bin. I raise both and treat them the same. All are thriving. IMHO..I would find a worm grower, perhaps locally, and not spend the extra money at a bait store.

North American night crawlers are not suited to bins at all. They are deep soil dwellers with permanent burrows and prefer a cooler temperature than your basement. They're great for your garden, but not for a composting/vermicomposting bins.

Hi, Nice to meet you all! I have read through many of the threads, and recongnize all your names. I guess I'm in good hands. I also see I'm off to a bad start.
My son wants fishing worms, I want compost and fishing. The box is only 19"wide x 9"deep x 7"high, not very big. I guess I should start over, do the RubberMaid thing and buy an lb or 2 of the Redworms. Worms or "eggs"??

Also, I'm new to "Thread Edicit" hope I'm not butting in.

NiftyÂ

Welcome to the "I want In" club. You are not butting in at all, quite the contrary; you bring up some great questions. Although new to this, I have done quite a bit of reading and have seen that the red worms are the composters of choice. Those are the ones I am looking for locally, and when I find them we are going to do some serious vermin bonding. I feel we are both in good hands here, welcome to the forum.

JasonÂ

Not a problem with your very good suggestions and input as well. I havenÂt had a chance to check here today, I have been reading a very interesting website about, you guessed it, vermicomposting. Your input is much appreciatedÂ

Happy New Year To Everyone,

Blutranes

NiftyNabber wrote, " I also see I'm off to a bad start."
You are not in any way off to a bad start. It's just "a start". Get ready for a very fun journey..:)

NiftyNabber if you want an around worm for bait & composting you can try pheretima hawayanas/Amynthas Gracilus. They are a med. sized of the nightcrawler family. They are deep burrowers and great for bin or garden raising. Great composters of food scraps, manures and green wastes. They will take temps of15 degrees in the winter to over 100's in the summer times. They can be raised in or outside. They are very prolific.
MaryKay

Thanks for all the responses.

Sunflower; Thanks for the info, now, where to get those?? And which is better to get, worms or "egg capsules"?

Earlier, Abby'sDad says, "...are deep soil dwellers with permanent burrows..." I take it, deep burrowers "don't" roam on top of the bedding? If that's true, then maybe I wasn't sold Canadian Nightcrawlers?? (Are bait shops under the same labling laws as other stores? LOL) My worms are coming to the top, not staying there, infact, they are quite active!!

Another question, (I know I should probably wait till I get the book I ordered, but I can't stop myself) Do I have to use household food scraps, or can I use the "Worm Food" that came with the box? I'm concerned about flies, odor, and mice, all of which I do not have now, and don't want to risk getting. I've read about these problems in other threads, wouldn't the "Worm Food" avoid most of that?

Good Morning NiftyNabber
The pheretimas can go deep but will also come to the top to eat. Bins are usually 12 to 18 inches deep.
I use black weed cover over the tops of my bins held down by a brick on each corner due to wind. This can be laid over the ground also. It will let air and water thru but keeps the sun out.
You don't have to feed food scraps but why waste the food. If you have excess food stock freeze it until needed. I used to use sandwich sized freezer bags. You can alternate using the food stock and worm feed. Just be careful not to overfeed. When all the food has disappered then feed again. The worm feed you received with worm bin is it a powder? Probably so, then scatter a thin layer over top of bed, mist top surface until food is wet and cover top with cardboard. When feeding food scraps dig a hole in one corner add food, cover with bedding water area and cover top. Burying food as deep as possible will keep flies and odors from happening. The next time you feed food scraps use another corner to add feed to and keep switching spots to add food. Depending on the amount of worms food will go fast.
When starting a bed or garden area I believe it's better to start with the worms. After a few days of adjusting to their new home they be busy eating and breeding. Cocoons take the right conditions to hatch and time. Worms will start composting right away.
The best thing you can do is research worm types as they differ in bedding conditions. Pheretimas & Euros need a wetter bedding than redworms. There is very little info on pheretimas compared to Euros & redworms.
Do a Google search for pheretima hawayana composting worms.

The worm food you got is another name for "sales tool".

Since worms eat "anything that ever lived", and all the other critters (excluding, hopefully, mice and other animals higher up the food chain and evolution totem pole) that will inevitably find their ways into your bins similarly tend to eat the same things, you should pretty much resign yourself to that truth. And that includes just the critters you can see with the naked eye, many of whom are much better composters than worms.

If we're trying to achieve maximum compostibility, and are in it for the poop, why toil so to achieve segregation when it ain't gonna happen, especially with regard to outdoor bins.

If we have vermi as pets, (and can manage to exclude vermin), which I'm positive lots of folks do and refuse to admit it, this test will clear up the distinction: Feed an otherwise healthy, robust wiggler to a gold fish, or bird, without a rush of guilt and you are all about the poop. If you cannot let that little fellow go the way of any other food source like beef or chicken, or even a weiner, which may actually have a wiggler in it for all we REALLY know, you do need to give the little critters relief from actual creepy-crawlies. There are many out there who go both ways with the poop/pet/fish bait question, of course, and they are to be admired for it.

I wish you much success with your vermicomposting adventure, and will hover here to help whenever I can.

Chuckiebtoo

BTW, Niftynabber, I ALWAYS knew George must have had help with Animal Farm, but I never knew he had a bro.

QuestionÂ

Will the "pheretima hawayana" worm survive here is the Deep South? This sounds like a great worm to compost with as well as introduce into the garden. I want some of them too if they are not considered invasive..

Blutranes

Nifftynabber - Canadian (North American) Nightcrawlers is a multi million dollar business in Canada (with volumes sent to the US and elsewhere), but they are not raised in farms like red worms, they are obtained by 'Pickers' (that go out at night after a warm rain). I have read that a good picker can make $150 - $200 after an evening of picking.
I'm not sure about European or African Nightcrawlers, but I have read that North American nightcrawlers do not survive well in bins. I believe the book you ordered will support this. Nightcrawlers do 'normally' live in deep, permanent burrows. They come to the surface to feed (by pulling organic debris into their burrows) and deposit castings, but they are not surface dwellers like red worm species.
Really - I don't make this stuff up.

I'm sure the one you ordered is good, but for other books, you might also consider:
-> The Formation of Vegetable Mould Through the Action of Worms, With Observations on Their Habits - by Charles Darwin. (Darwin spent the last years of his life studying Nightcrawlers to the extend that he proved their intelligence w/o consciousness by the ability to determine which end of an object to attach to in order for it to be easily pulled into the burrow.)
-> The Earth Moved - by Amy Stewart.
-> The Worm Book: The Complete Guide to Worms in Your Garden - by Loren Nancarrow,Janet Hogan Taylor.
-> Worms Eat My Garbage: How to Set Up & Maintain a Worm Composting System - by Mary Appelhof.

Hi,
Bultranes To answer your question I can only teel you what I do.
I live in So. CA in the desert.
We get some nights down as low as 15 degrees and can on a occasion get snow but the daytimes can warm up into the 50's or higher. In the summer we have days of temps over 100. We are dryer here so I have to water more often. That's why I use gray weed barrier on the tops of my bins so I can water without taking all the tops off, which is very time consuming. The come off easy when I feed then wet down the feed. In the winter I use black weed barrier to help absorb the sun's heat.
I see you are in Zone 8 which is my Zone also just different states.
MaryKay

Thanks again for putting up with me,
Sunflower: Thanks for all the info, that's pretty much how I've been reasoning this out, to food-scrap or not to food-scrap. I guess I'm just affraid of making a mess.

Chuckie: Yeah I figured that too, only I was thinking that the feed may only sufice for temporary storage of worms, and not be balanced enough for actual living quarters. Oh, and thanks for noticing my lame Orwell joke.

Abby'sDad: LOL, You could make it up, how the heck would I know??? Thus far I've been hangimg on your every word!! Actuially I've been watching my critters and they seem to be doing just as you've described! I have been looking to get one or two of those books. I am thinking of starting over, setting up a new bin, with all the new information I've recieved, and with a pound of Red Worms.

OK, one last question........I'm in New York, how far away can I trust a company to send me good worms?? There aren't many suppliers in NY, There are a few in Conn. but they're mad expensive.($40-45lb) Some in Penn. I found another in Oregon, $20lb, but that seems a bit far. (Sunflower, I will do that Google search before I order though!!)

Thanks again to all, for your patience!!

Sunflower MK...

I did a Google as you suggested and this worm sounds like one to have according to the University of Hawaii. I noticed that they said it was found in the United States as well, but not in which states. I will keep looking to see what I come up with. Very interesting worm...

Blutranes

I too live in z5 NY and recently started vermicomposting.
My sister who likes to fish says she's going to use my worms when she goes fishing this spring -- she's NUTS. I don't want anyone touching my worms -- except children -- future vermicomposters.
I've learned so much from this site. I check it several times a day (even at work).
Good luck with trying to put a hook into one of your homebreed worms. I really couldn't do it.

Mickey2

Darwin's book is available for free as an online book.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Formation of Vegetable Mould Through the Action of Worms

Blutranes;
I found that the worms are also called Amynthas Gracilus, comon name, Alabama or Georgia Jupper. According the Worm Digest, is similar to African Nightcrawler.

Here is a link for ordering worms in western usa.... California...San francisco I believe..

Another place is in kamloops Bc.. CANADA..IF you google red wrigglers his site will come up..

happy vermies....

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.alcasoft.com/cosmos/

My first worms were sent via USPS from Chicago (to Texas) Everything OK, but freezing could be a prob now and shipping east/north. A good company will ship the worms for minimum transit time (Won't ship when weekend or holidays will cause delay).

Chuckiebtoo

I have been very fortunate gathering worms for my flower beds, etc by taking some card board (tearing up old boxes - I was once told this is one of earthworms favorite foods)and wetting them. I then put them over an area for a couple of days. When I lift up the card board I find worms (while not a large number, they are native ones to my property). I gather and place in the flower beds. I also feed the worms by taking my scrapes (especially tea bags and coffee gounds) and digging a hole and burying the waste in my beds. I have not set up a worm bed yet, but I have been thinking about it. I think it would be better than what I have been doing. However, my flower beds all seem to really enjoy their guests.

I saw a suggestion somewhere (maybe even this site) about putting the legs of the stand for your worm bin in cans filled with oil instead of water. Since it doesnt evaporate you dont have to remember to fill it all the time. Sounded good to me.

You guys are all so helpful to newcomers. I am pretty new at this ( 4 months in) and havent had problems till the past few weeks. I posted a question tonight (Not Fungus Gnats or Fruit Flies) about the swarms of tiny flies coming from my bin. I hope someone can tell me what they are and if they are harmful as the worm population seems to be dwindling rapidly.