The ideal concept if your tight on space is "sucker to one stem". Only allow 1 stem from the ground up. Then, some growers prune the tops off after say the 10th cluster.

I just hacked a few GIGANTIC but utterly unproductive plants -- as in NOT ONE TOMATO -- down to about 20% of their previous size.

I've read that in some types of plants excessive growth like keeps down fruit, so I figured I'd give it a try. If it works and I get some tomatoes, great. If not and they die, who cares? They're just weeds at this point, as far as I'm concerned.

I think that after wasting two years on unpredictable, futile "heirlooms" that have been mongrelized out of all recognition by clueless growers who have no idea of how to keep the plants from cross-pollinating, I'm going to go back to regular commercial hybrids. At least they're productive.

decklap - My neighbor employs a method of what I would call extreme pruning. I'll have to verify exactly what he does (I want to take pictures too). From my observation the plant is suckered until the first flower cluster. Then everything below the first flower cluster is removed (I think he might also sucker above). Once the first cluster ripen everything up to the next clusters are removed and so on. He seems to have good succes, the tomatoes taste fine, and doesn't have sunscald problems.

"I just hacked a few GIGANTIC but utterly unproductive plants -- as in NOT ONE TOMATO -- down to about 20% of their previous size...I've read that in some types of plants excessive growth like keeps down fruit, so I figured I'd give it a try. If it works and I get some tomatoes, great. If not and they die, who cares?"
I doubt they'll die, I also doubt it will have any affect on production.
"I think that after wasting two years on unpredictable, futile "heirlooms" that have been mongrelized out of all recognition by clueless growers who have no idea of how to keep the plants from cross-pollinating, I'm going to go back to regular commercial hybrids."
If regular commercial hybrids works for you and you're happy with them then perhaps that is exactly what you should do especially if you researched to determine which heirlooms grew best in zone 9 and specifically your area. I do take exception with at least one of your comments. Getting crossed seed from reputable commercial suppliers of heirloom seeds is rare and I wouldn't call them clueless growers.

Randy

I think that after wasting two years on unpredictable, futile "heirlooms" that have been mongrelized out of all recognition by clueless growers who have no idea of how to keep the plants from cross-pollinating, I'm going to go back to regular commercial hybrids. At least they're productive.

Gee, golodkin, why don't you tell us what you REALLY think of heirlooms? ;)

Seriously, your blanket condemnation of heirlooms is a bit unfair. Like Randy said, have you researched what heirlooms do well in your area? There are many. What seed sources have you used that supposedly got you these "mongrels"? Yes, trades can be prone to some minimal crossing but everyone knows that up front when they trade. But reputable seed suppliers don't have that problem.

Still, if you are happy with hybrids then by all means that is the way you should go. They are more tolerant in many ways of the shortcomings in the garden and the gardener.

Dave

Every year something goes terribly wrong and every year something goes beyond my expectations. I had grown squash for years with bumper crops. Last year in my new house, vine borers attacked. They even took out butternut vines that are supposed to resistant with solid vines. Late summer and winter squash was in nearly a total loss. When I replanted one spot that would no be shaded out by then I saw two good seedlings. I pulled one seedling the one that remained turned out to be a butternut zucchini cross that must have come from a zucchini that shriveled away from the vine borers(still not quite clear how this happened). I was waiting for this vine to produce and was just passing the finish line towards the end of the season and I get franken fruit. I am now ready for these vile creatures and hedged myself with Zucchetta Rampicante.

The challenge makes it fun but I do grow old reliables and yes even hybrids because I don't want to be heart broken. I certainly have no problem with the idea of hedging your bets with some hybrids. There are reasons why heirlooms lost some popularity in the first place because there is a trade off.

When I tried to weekend garden a few years I had bumper crops of beans and cucumbers. I was giving some away. The next year rabbits mowed it all down before a single true leaf came up wiping out most of the beans and stunting the cukes into oblivion. Strangely, after neglecting brussel sprouts that same year( after all it was a ways away and the rabbit attack curbed my enthusiasm a bit) they produced very well. Its too easy!

I grow heirlooms cause I look forward to the crosses. I've always thought that was part of the fun. Considering that some of these varieties have been growing for many decades its hard to see how it could be avoided.

golodkin, wow you sure are upset--it is an aggravation to try and grow tomatoes and get NOTHING but check out this thread and scroll down to 2nd post. Lots of heirlooms there and she is close to San Jose. Be sure and click on the link Cynthia provided too--she is an amazing grower.

You can certainly grow heirlooms along with your hybrids if you can figure out what is happening to your plants in your neck of the woods. Maybe you needed to plant them earlier to avoid too hot temps in summer.

Here is a link that might be useful: LoveAppleFarms

Decklap,

I spoke to my neighbor yesterday evening.
Me: I want to talk to you about how you prune your tomato plants.
TC: Yeah I prune 'em. [we both chuckle]
Me: Do you remove suckers?
TC: I remove all the suckers that should be removed.
Me: Then you remove everything below the first clusters?
TC: Yep, none of that is doing the plant any good so I remove it all.
Me: And you keep doing that up the plant.
TC: Yep as soon as all these ripen I'll remove everything up to the next batch of tomatoes and so on.

Again, he has good success. If you do a control and non control plant please let me know how it turns out, I've wanted to try it his way for a while.

Good luck.

Randy

you could use this link

Here is a link that might be useful: How to Prune Tomatoes

I also do the prune off all leaves below the first fruit cluster method (not untill the plant has enough leaves above it to support fruit, of course), for me the issue is to get the air circulation flowing at the base, and no nasty leaf problems. As the season wears on the bottom leaves age & die so they get removed as they yellow/crisp in the sun, age, etc. By November when the last few tomatoes are ripening the bottom 3 feet are stripped bare with the tops still doing fine. I plant with a close 1 ft spacing with some serious compost additions and mulches, so pruning for better air flow is needed, and the tops collectly shade the fruits.

This is what works for us, no promises it'll work for others.

fishymamas what do you consider enough leaf surface to support the fruit?