I've used the 20% vinegar, which I think you now have to special order because the chemical lobby objected to its availability.

They claimed they were concerned for public health & safety because it's a strong acid & you have to use skin & eye protection...
however, they haven't uttered a peep about the presence of roundup in human breast milk.

I had great success with the 20% vinegar on the kind of bermuda grass that has roots to middle earth, but I had to apply it 2 or 3 times on hot sunny windless days.

It left the soil, which had been the worst kind of Texas black gumbo, wonderfully workable.

For other, less determined weeds, I have always just shoveled them or pulled them, but I have heard that the 9% or 10% vinegar, available at many grocery & farm stores as 'pickling vinegar', is excellent with the epsom salts & dawn dishwashing liquid.

The 5% vinegar that we buy for 'normal' household use (salad dressing & mop water!), might work, but I figure, you know, if I can eat it on my salad, how is it going to hurt a weed?

If I were going to blast a big area of non-bermuda-grass weeds, I'd use the recipe, but with the stronger vinegar.

Sylvia, you mean that using the 20% vinegar with the Epsom salts and Dawn dishwashing soap will really kill Bermuda - that wicked, wicked stuff - or that just the vinegar by itself will kill the grass? Inquiring minds want to know!!

Mary

Thanks Sylvia. I didn't realize there were stronger vinegars available. I'll hunt some down and try it in the formula. I'm assuming it doesn't last in the soil so it's not going to affect whether or not you can plant in the same soil you've previously sprayed this mixture on?

Thanks Sylvia. I didn't realize there were stronger vinegars available. I'll hunt some down and try it in the formula. I'm assuming it doesn't last in the soil so it's not going to affect whether or not you can plant in the same soil you've previously sprayed this mixture on?

I just used the vinegar, not knowing at the time about epsom salts & dish detergent.

Yep, it killed the nasty stuff;
it *did* take a couple or maybe 3 applications on hot sunny windless days, then the grass turned beige & then it shriveled up & I used a garden fork to loosen the roots (which had dried & shrunken anyway) & I pulled the roots out.

made the soil beautiful.

Heat & direct sun contribute to the process, & you have to use it on a windless day to keep from wasting your vinegar or having it blow onto your skin or into your eyes or nose.

20% vinegar is a strong acid, so be careful;
use hand & eye protection & don't inhale it.

If I were to do it again, I'd add the other ingredients, because the 20% vinegar is more expensive...
although I don't know how the cost compares to the cost of garden chemicals.

I don't know what the epsom salts contribute, but I'm thinking that dish detergent makes the solution stick to the plants/leaves/grass blades better.

Yes, it gets absorbed into the ground & gets diluted, & eventually it's only vinegar.

I've used the regular vinegar, Epsom salt and and blue Dawn recipe and it has worked well on a large area of crab grass in a sunny area. Took a couple of days to turn completely brown....my understanding was that Epsom salt was beneficial to soil while regular salt was not. Time will tell if the weeds re-grow after this treatment. Cheaper than Roundup and I had the ingredients on hand so gave it a try.

Kimmsr will be along shortly to tell you ... that is NOT organic at all.

I tried the variant of that with table salt - it did NOT work on annual bluegrass. After some initial browning, the grass recovered. And it was NOT cheaper than mixing from glyphosate concentrate.

I don't think dumping largish quantities of MgSO4 or NaCl onto your yard are going to be beneficial. Salt is known to be bad for soil fertility.

So, when I need to kill large areas of weeds, or especially Bermuda grass, it's generic glyphosate for me, mixed and applied according to the label directions.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vinegar VS Glyphosate

Kimmsr will be along shortly to tell you ... that is NOT organic at all.

I tried the variant of that with table salt - it did NOT work on annual bluegrass. After some initial browning, the grass recovered. And it was NOT cheaper than mixing from glyphosate concentrate.

I don't think dumping largish quantities of MgSO4 or NaCl onto your yard are going to be beneficial. Salt is known to be bad for soil fertility.

So, when I need to kill large areas of weeds, or especially Bermuda grass, it's generic glyphosate for me, mixed and applied according to the label directions.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vinegar VS Glyphosate

I use a mixture of a gallon straight 20% vinegar, 2 oz orange oil and a little dawn dish soap at work. You'll wanna use it with a pump sprayer where you can spray it there on the weed. It also helps if you're worried about drift to tape the top of a soda bottle to the end of the sprayer. If you're trying to spot treat weeds next to desirable plants you can always use a sponge brush too.

Sorry double post.

This post was edited by phoenix7801 on Mon, Jul 7, 14 at 22:52

Round up never has been proven anything but safe?

Google 'round up human breast milk' & 'round up banned countries'.

Who's bring the popcorn to this one.....

Lisa

mrs.wiggley(8 Hill Country) Can you share the original formula? The link no longer works.

I wonder if this is the one Mrs. Wiggley asked about:

Vinegar, epson salts, and dish soap weed killer.

When I Googled the recipe ingredients all the references seem to point back to an entry on Pinterest which cites the blog above. From what I could find most everybody is saying "I heard that this recipe works." but I couldn't find anyone reporting back that it did.

So I guess the question remains: has anybody on here tried it?

This blogger states a long history of using 20% vinegar with orange oil. She goes on to say that many respected gardeners say that a 10% strength will work.

http://www.seasonedhomemaker.com/a-vinegar-weed-killer/

Amazon carries a 99.85% acetic acid. DH will be the one using it, and he said to go ahead and order the full strength. Diluting it will be less expensive than buying the 20% gallons. He's worked with dangerous acids before, so will take proper precautions. We'll be adding the orange oil as well.

As for the epsom salts, I wonder if they are just a replacement for the table salt that was once used. I know they're good for the soil, but wonder if they have any actual weed killing value.

20% is too strong and dangerous. You can find 10% at some grocery stores usually labeled extra strength. I found 9% at HEB and it spot killed without any added salt or detergent.

The difference between glyphosate and vinegar is that vinegar kills the foliage, but much of the time the weed, grass or whatever re-emerges from the buried root. Glyphosate kills right down to the root. It takes time, but it is thorough. Vinegar for consumption is 5% acetic Acid. Concentrations of 10% are dangerous, concentrations of 99.85 are glacial acidic acid and are deadly when inhaled (burns the lining of the lungs) and produces third degree burns when on skin and even from vapors. There is no place to buy concentrations of 99% anywhere. It is used industrially in the production of TA (Terephthalic acid) which is the precursor to PTA (purified) which is used to make polyester among other things.

Vinegar may work on some weeds, glyphosate will work more efficiently and act surely and is 100% safe if used according to directions and kept away from ponds, lakes and other places where it affects fish and other aquatic life. It has been used safely for over 50 years and is the safest most effective herbicide either organic or synthetic. If you want to invest your time and money in less effective methods....be my guest.

Oh, and Epsom salts are beneficial, but I don't see how they would help as a herbicide. Table salt will kill weeds and make the soil sterile if you want to plant something else. Pouring salt on fields is a tactic to prevent crops on these fields (see Sherman's March on Georgia)

Everything I've been reading for the past year tells me that glyphosate IS NOT SAFE, and the studies over the past several years have been silenced by Monsanto. Glyphosate destroys the soil, just ask any organic farmer. Look at all of the countries that have banned Roundup Ready crops. I'm a garden designer, and I have extensively researched over the past 15 years the safety of Roundup, and came up with the conclusion it was 100% safe, and it was the only chemical I've ever used. Not any more! Last year I used the vinegar/Epsom Salts/Dawn combo, and it has worked. Stubborn weeds have taken 2-3 applications. Epsom Salts is actually an excellent fertilizer, and is available in large containers at Sam's Club in the Spring. Regular table salt should never be used.

The EPA has found it safe as has 800 other studies. It is approved for use in 160 countries and countries such as Canada that ban it also bane all herbicides for household use; it is still used on farms.. It has been proven safe over four decades and if you choose to believe websites rather than studies then go ahead. If you want to use vinegar, as you readily admit, it takes longer and multiple applications then go ahead. If you can convince people to pay you to do this then it is their money and they can waste it if they want. It is a waste of time and money, but it is not mine and I don't care.

You can read a lot of theories on the web about UFOs it doesn't mean they are real. You are free to believe in whatever you want, but your ideas should be based on the best advice available and there is no scientific study that shows glyphosate is not safe if used according to directions. Unless you buy 100% organic produce and meats you cannot escape products that involve glyphosate and there is not one case of anyone anywhere harmed by using it according to directions anywhere in the world.

I do not charge people money to spray the vinegar solution on their gardens - they do it themselves. My clients are well aware of the dangers of RoundUp on their own, not because of me. They are concerned about what they feed themselves, and families. Recently the EPA ignored the World Health Organization's conclusion that glyphosate can cause cancer, and the Enlist Duo's active ingredients of glyphosate and 2,4-D, both have been shown to increase the risk of non-Hodgkin lymphoma. I do not trust the EPA to have our best interests in mind anymore. Unfortunately, they, and our government leaders are greatly influenced by the Monsanto lobby. Follow the money. Why are they so determined to stop states from passing legislation in states that wish to label foods? What ever happened to giving consumers a choice on what they wish to purchase and feed their families? Every other ingredient is required to be on labels! Here's just one report from a foreign (Argentina) Ministry of Health: http://gmwatch.org/index.php/news/archive/2014/15506-cancer-deaths-double-where-gm-crops-and-agro-chemicals-used

Other countries seem to realize the dangers of Monsanto, why not the EPA and the FDA in our own country? The "best advice available" can not be trusted from Monsanto, the FDA or EPA. Independent studies not heavily funded by Monsanto should be what we look at.

Your link showing increased cancer rates in one specific area means nothing. There are thousands and thousands of areas that haven't shown this increased rate of cancer. It is also a story published by an anti-genetically modified group. GM crops have saved billions of lives in the past couple of decades and are 100% safe. It is simply a far faster way to hybridize crops.

Feel free to continue doing what you want, but please consider that if GMO crops are banned billions will die as opposed to zero who have been harmed by glyphosates or GMOs. You say you have read about this for a year. Obviously you have been reading one side only. Try broadening your reading to each point of view or better yet the facts. I'm not asking you to trust Monsanto (I wouldn't) or the government (I don't); I am asking you to trust the facts.