I want to give you some support on your decision to minimize the Organic thing. I, too, tried to be nice this year and have lost almost a quarter of my plants to those danged spider mites. I had "too cool" and then "too hot" and "hornworms" and "fruit worms". Today, when I finally figured out that I had "spider mites", it hit me so badly that I lost it and screamed so loud that the neighbor came running to see who had been murdered.

So, agree with me or disagree with me; hate me, love me, or have a large case of apathy, I'm taking off the gloves and out comes the heavy artillery. My sprayer was humming today and the carnage was apocolyptic. I swear that if I had some DDT, today it would have been in the battle.

I HAVE HAD ENOUGH!!!!!!

I'M MAD AS HELL AND I WON'T TAKE IT ANY MORE!!!!!!!!

I finished saving seeds for the year two days ago and now just want to finish out the year in peace.

So, Lionheart, I'm just going to roll out the Spectracide and Daconil and ???? (anything that kills) and spray regularly. I'll try to salvage what I can from this year, but I am done with, as you called it, the Organic "shtick". The enemy has more weapons than I do without my "poisons".
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Failure is temporary condition that exists just before we realize complete success and should be considered a part of our On-the-Job Training.

Containerted - 2008

Job 38, dude! :)

Hmmm... I have been openminded to eating bugs before, myself, but I can understand your conflict.

The UC IPM suggests using BTK and Spinosad for fruitworms which are both relatively safe. BTK is a better long-term solution. If I were you, I'd spray with both. BTK is totally non-toxic, and spinosad is relatively safe.

If you want to go nuclear, try some Sevin, although you might want to skip picking fruit for a few days if you do that. I'd go with Spinosad and BTK. BTK is sold as Ortho Caterpillar Control (I think) and some other names. Spinosad is sold as Montreal Garden Pest Control, or something like that.

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r783300111.html

Deb, I don't know where your zone 5 is in NYS, I'm on the Vt border but did most of my tomato growing just north of Albany and after about 60 years of being up close and personal with tomatoes I've never once seen a fruit worm.

And that's on the Farm where I was raised just north of Albany as well as my growing well over 2000 varieties myself both there and here, here being about one hour north of Latham which is just north of Albany.

So I found your comment about fruitworms interesting, to say the least. (smile)

But I've had it with the constant rain and overcast skies and cool weather and the high here today was 64F. Sigh.

Carolyn, who at this point doubts she'll get anything to ripen except the 4 Black Cherries that were harvested a couple of days ago

Spectracide advertises its product as "Same Day Harvest". I'll know tomorrow if it controls spider mites. It says it does.

OH NO!!!!!!! Just to add still another face slap, after all the spraying today, it just started raining.

Sigh !!!

Well, we are in a severe drought. I guess I'll have to take it the chin again. We DO need the rain. The lakes are going dry and that Alabama governor idiot is trying to steal the rest of what's left.

They can kill me, but I don't have to like it.

Dang!!!!!

That 12 hour sprinkle storm you're experiencing washed off my daconil as well. So I'm not sure if I should spray again or not, eh. After it all, I'm there with you guys. Wilt is taking my gold variety. Heat is keeping my bicolor from producing at all. Then yesterday I found one of my orange ones half eaten by a hornworm the size of a volkswagon. I've seen so many clusters of flowers numbering 20+ all yellow and fall it's disheartening... I'm already putting a lot of time into next year, unfortunately.
Maybe I should find some winter crops.

You guys rock!

Containerted, it's good that we can chuckle in the face of adversity. Thank you for the encouraging words. It's too late for those tomatoes that have been assaulted by all sorts of creepies, but now I'm out for revenge. I wonder where you can buy grenade launchers. :-)

Hi Doof, thank you for the advice. I will look into BTK. I know there are some bacterial treatments that are not effective here, like the ones for Japanese beetles, because the bacteria do not thrive in temps below 55 degrees and the Bt does not overwinter here. But I'll look into using other strains for these larvae.

Hi Ya Carolyn, I live in the town of New Scotland, in Albany County. It's about a 15-minute drive southwest of Albany. We can drive to Latham in about 30 minutes, give or take. You live in a very pretty area; we are very familiar with the border areas of the state.

I've never had a problem with these larvae in the past. Perhaps they are not fruitworms, but a different type of boring larvae. The are dark brown, but I didn't get up close and personal enough with them to see if they had white or yellow stripes. If they had stripes it wasn't immediately apparent. Based on descriptions (and the beasties' affinity for tomatoes) I just assumed they were fruitworms, but that could be wrong.

The emergency, backup (lol) bed is in the compost pile which, unfortunately, doesn't get as much sun, although it is probably adequate. Those plants are unmolested, as is the pepper bed. So perhaps it is not fruitworms, but some other incidental larvae that are boring holes in the tomato fruits and taking up residence.

The affected tomatoes are closest to the ground and were the first tomatoes to set fruit. Btw, the Cherokee Purples that they love so much were purchased plants, so maybe they came along for the ride. The CPs were purchased from a local farm stand and not a box store, in hopes that they would be of better quality.

A few other varieties that are near the CPs have also become unwilling hosts to these "worms", but the plants that were started from seed, on the opposite end of the bed, do not have any holes in the fruit. Yet.

They seem to be limited to one end of one bed. Of course, it's the bed with the tomatoes that I most wanted to try. :-)

Yeah, this weather has been working against us. On August 1st the local meteorologist said that we tied 1858 for the 10th rainiest July on record. So far this August we've only had one day that got above 80 degrees.

I recall that we had another such summer in the mid to late 90s, when all of the local gardeners were lamenting the cool, rainy summer and the lack of plant production.

Reaverg, hang in there. You have a longer growing season so perhaps your plants can recover and provide you with a good harvest. I hope so.

Thank you all!

"The lakes are going dry and that Alabama governor idiot is trying to steal the rest of what's left."
Um, perhaps you should look around your on back yard before throwing crap at your neighbors. I believe southwest Georgia and Florida are concerned about the water that flows by Atlanta as well. Anyway, good luck with the garden.

Reaverg, where are you? I'm up here near Flowery Branch. You know, I'm got so frustrated with everyone sending the problems off to those "UCDavis" and other websites, that I finally took my problem to the County Extension Agent. Now that's a busy office. Finally got back the report and they said that my main problem was the spider mites. Well, by waiting until I got that answer and spraying enough Daconil to kill all the fungus for the next millenium, I had lost 40% of the foliage. So, my outburst above. "Quoth the raven, nevermore".

Yeah, Bamagrit, those fresh water mussles need all the water they can get. And who cares if a metropolitan area of 10+ million has water, anyway. You know, I don't think that governor wants the water. The Chestatee and Chattahoochee rivers form Lake Sidney Lanier. The Chestatee originates in the Dahlonega gold mining area. I believe that governor critter wants the gold.

Oh, and BTW,

GOOOOOOOOOO VOLS !!!!!!!!

&

HOW ABOUT THEM DAWGS!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry to read about all the bad luck you folks are having. I'd settle for the worms/bugs just to see a ripe tomato this year.

Containerted, yes, how 'bout them and do let them go. I have no interest in such things any longer. I used to, with Alabama and Tennessee being my favorites, but now I'd rather be on the river or in the woods in those months. Still, I hope your garden recovers. I have the same problem in that I have to spray on occasion also. Just too many 'bugs' in our beloved Southland and I don't like feedin' them and not us.

Bamagrit, I like to have a good laugh. No harm intended and I hope none taken. I have a small bass boat and love to be on that when we have water. Thanks for the good words on mine and reverg's gardens recovering. And you're right, our wonderful southern latitudes have their own problems. However, I do have one thought that I keep foremost in all situations and on all occasions.

IF YOU CAN'T HAVE A GIGGLE, DON'T MAKE THE TRIP !!!!!!

I hope the critters treat you kindly this year. Take a look over on the Pests forum. I just posted some pictures of the spider mite damage. Take care.

May your garden always give you things like this.
{{gwi:1384100}}

That's from a Giant Tree Tomato Plant and there are 5 more of them on the same plant. That one goes about 2 pounds and is still green.

Containerted, Beautiful Tomato and no harm taken here. I should have kept quiet, this ain't MY thread and I apologize to Lionhart for changing the subject. You are absolutely correct about the 'giggle'. I've had to laugh at myself too many times over the years I'm afraid!! My tomatoes have about played out for this year though five or six are hanging on. They are Cherokee Purple and have done well considering what they've had to go through. The peas, eggplant and okra are goin' great. I've had to spray the peas as they were getting 'stung' pretty bad. I'll take a look at the pest forum and your pic's. It's been raining here most of the day, thank the Lord, now I'm goin' out and walk around on the wet dirt. Good luck and good gardening and look forward to your posts.

Thanks for the kind words everyone. One thing I should suggest about the worms; Growing lettuce has attracted tons of them to my plot so... don't do that. :D

ted I'm across the border in Alabama along I-20 and War Eagle!

Last year I had cabbage loppers on two of my plants late in the season. I tried picking them off, but they reproduce so quickly it's a loseing battle.

If this is what you have I recomend you spray. I didn't.

So far they haven't returned this year.

See my Fliccker photo of the cabbabe Lopper.

Karyl
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Here is a link that might be useful: Flicker Photo of Cabbage Lopper

Yes, that would be them Karyl, thanks for the heads up. You may have just saved me a huge headache sometime down the road. Those are dedicated little buggers.

Reaverg - Where you live is just "AU"ful :>)

This "Bud"'s for you.
{{gwi:1384102}}

oh raaaattttssss!!!!!!!!!! I have fruit worms too!!! first hornworms, then corn ear worms, then stupid stinking stinkbugs making their stinky stink marks all over my 'maters, and then last night, just last night I see a stupid hole in a stupid tomato and a stupid worm sticking its stupid little wormy head out.... rats rats rats!!!! double rats!

I've never had so much pestilence in all my life!

i'm sooo glad I'm not the only one

I have had the first damage from these critters in years to my tomatoes and I too find it interesting that they have shown up in vastly different areas of my one high tunnel showing up mostly on Lemon Boy and Sand Hill's Pol Robeson Angolan fruits.

I received word that the earworms (same critters) were showing up at a nearby research plot and that spraying corn would be warranted and so my sweet corn has no earworms. I think I lost about a bushel of tomatoes (less than 6% of harvest), some with only modest visible damage, some really had the tops chewed severely.

I can see why spraying effectiveness varries since a worm eating the inner fruit won't be consuming any pesticide. These are one pest that are best controlled early in their development.

Hi reaverg,
Cabbage loppers are much worse than hornworms. And I thought hornworms were terrible. Cabbage loppers multiply so rapidly you don't have a chance.

Look cabbabe lopper up and see what to spray with. I think that will be the only real way to deal with cabbage loppers.
I didn't spray and they ate my baby tomatoes before they had a chance to grow.

I feel for you, and hope I never see a cabbage lopper again.

Karyl
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