Do a Google search for "Saving Tomato Seed"

Or go to the Seed Saving forum here and read the FAQ on how to save tomato seeds.

Or search how to save seed on this forum for lots of discussions.

Dave

Here you go.

Here is a link that might be useful: How to save tomato seed FAQ

I wrote the FAQ that DigDirt linked to. It is about saving tomato seeds via fermentation. I no longer advocate that method because of the vagaries of timing as well as the problems that beginners often experience when they leave a cup of rotting seeds and gel out for a few to several days. I now teach a sani-scrub method which is simply mixing equal amounts of seed and gel with comet or ajax or any similar bleach-containing cleanser, it takes thirty five minutes from start to finish--and that time includes the half-hour break you get while letting the seeds soak. The method is shared/distributed (with my permission) by the USDA at their visitor center, of course they also share it along with tomato seeds from WinterSown.Org.

Here is a link that might be useful: How to Clean Tomato Seeds

And I've shared with Trudi that I'm not ready to promote any oxidative methods of processing seeds b'c there's no data available to indicate how effective it is,and at another message site there was a long thread about this and many looked but could find no data except for pine cone seeds which isn't relevent in removing pathogens that adhere to the tomato seed coat. But it sure is easier to do than fermentation, but the data is known from Dr. Helene Dillard as to how much the seed coat pathogens are lessened.

But many I know do use the oxidative methods just b'c it's quicker and easier than fermentation. Even without knowing how effective it might be.

No method removes all the pathogens as far as I know, and that for fermentation, but since infection is a quantitative process the less pathogen numbers the less the chance that infection will ensue.

No two folks do fermention, my preferred method, messy though it is, the exact same way and there's a good description given at Victory Seeds and another at Tania's T-base that might be helpful for those interested.

Carolyn,who had so few fruits this year from her pathetic plants that she set up just two fermentations, one for Kukla's Portuguese Beefsteak and the other for Orange Minsk Heart, that's right, a heart from OM. However she has four others who are growing her varieties for her, 3 in NC and one in IL,with hopes that she'll get enough seed for what she wants to do with those seeds. ( smile)

C

As I've said before, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel here. If you're saying that chlorine doesn't disinfect then I guess we've all been hoodwinked for decades. I mean really, has someone called Chlorox and told them that they're scamming us?

There appears to be numerous info available about the use of chlorine for seed treatments. Perhaps you've overlooked this body of info.

Production Applications:
Seed Treatments
Disinfection of seed by soaking chlorinated water (often with heating) has been used for routine
treatment of seed to reduce the potential for viral, bacterial, and fungal disease epidemics.
Recently, in response to repeated outbreaks of Salmonella spp. and Escherichia coli O157:H7 on
sprouted seeds, a protocol for the treatment of alfalfa seed with 20,000 �g/ml Ca(OCl2) was
approved by the EPA and CDFA. This concentration was identified in a broad screen of seed
disinfection treatments as most efficacious in achieving a 6-log reduction of combined external
and internal contamination.

It's from chpater six, page seven:

CHLORINATION IN THE PRODUCTION
AND POSTHARVEST HANDLING OF
FRESH FRUITS AND VEGETABLES

Here is a link that might be useful: By T. Sudlow, UCDavis.Edu

Looks like that darn chlorox is being used again to eliminate pathogens on the exterior of the seed.

Here is a link that might be useful: Hot Water and Chlorine Treatment.....

Trudi, we've been through this before and you've posted much as you did above.

Most folks treat their ***already processed seeds*** with a certain concentration of chlorine as a final attempt to rid them of pathogens but it isn't the same concentration that most of the folks use with Oxi-Clean or Comet which are harder to measure . And there's a long post elsewhere about Oxi-clean and the different forms of it and what concentration to use of the various forms of it.

The first part of your answer is not correct b'c it's only fungi on the seed coat surface that's removed, all bacterial and vial pathogens to date have been IDed as being in the endosperm of the seednot on the seed coat, and thus only hot water treatment can be used for the bacteria, which is accompanied by loss of seed viability but commercial farmers , at least some, feel it's worthwhile to ask for hot water treated seed despite the increased cost and also related to the most prevalent pathogens in their area.

Alfalfa is not infected with tomato pathogens as far as I know so it looks like you're running into the same problem that others have in determining what IS removed from the tomato seed coat via oxidative methods ala my comment about pine cone seeds above.

And yes, I also know about chlorine treatment of post harvest vegetables and fruits but we're talking about removal of tomato pathogens from the surface of the tomato seed not the hopeful removal of mainly fungi and some bacteria from the surface of whole fruits and vegetables which can lead to rotting of those whole fruits and vegetables during storage and shipping if it's not done.

And I'm sure you'll also recall that I'm a retired Microbiologist with a concentration in humans infectious diseases, not tomato diseases, although I do OK with those as well at least most of the time, so I do know about various products that can kill ( cidal ones) as well as static ones that are associated with certain human pathogens such as the Salmonella and E. coli enterogenic ones that have been such a problem that you mentioned above.

Actually the largest outbreak of E. coli; O157 known occured at the Washington County Fair near where I live a few years ago, with several persons dying of the the kidney damage that can be so very severe.

So you use what you want to to try and remove tomato pathogens from the tomato seed surface via oxidative methods,most being the systemic pathogens which are most serious, and I'll use what I know does that via fermentation, as do many others.

That seems fair doesn't it?

Carolyn

Exterior pathogens can be eliminated with chlorine.

People need a simple method to destroy exterior pathogens, done quickly and effectively. Chlorine will do that. A half hour soak in comet will do it for fresh seeds too.

You are a very stubborn person, but so am I. We'll have to agree to disagree, as we do on so very many things.

T, who doesn't need a weatherman to tell me it's raining.

Sounds like too much for me! I think I'll stick to buying seed packets for tomatoes and maybe save other seeds. Do you think seed companies do the chlorine thing?

Carolyn ,does the fermentation method destroy all pathogens ? If so is this due to the long soaking ? You stated above "only hot water treatment can be used for the bacteria" which isn't used in the fermentation method .So please explain.
Would the clorine method be more effect with a longer soak time ?
What diseases can these pathogens cause ?

Zackey,

I would assume that most either ferment or do any of the many other types of chemical treaments to sanitize their seeds.
=================

For a home gardener that is saving seeds to use again for just themselves then simply scraping the seeds onto a paper towel and letting it all dry completely before storage is adequate. But, if the gardener intends to trade or share their seeds then any form of treatment that reduces or eliminates exterior pathogens is a must. We all love to share seeds of our best plants, but we don't want to share any possible pathogens with those seeds.

I like bleaching, I trust it, and I think it's an efficient way to clean and sanitize tomato seeds (and so much else). Some people still like fermentation because it's what they're used to doing and they've had success with that. Either way, regardless if you're new school or old school, removing external pathogens when you intend to share those seeds is vital to preventing the spread of these pathogens to gardens around the country or world.

Carolyn ,does the fermentation method destroy all pathogens ? If so is this due to the long soaking ? You stated above "only hot water treatment can be used for the bacteria" which isn't used in the fermentation method .So please explain.
Would the clorine method be more effect with a longer soak time ?
What diseases can these pathogens cause ?

*****

No, fermentation does not remove all pathogens as I think I said above when I said that it lessened the amount on the seed coat and since infection is a quantitative process it means a lesser chance of passing on certain seed borne pathogens.

Above I said that all bacterial and viral pathogens, to date, have been found in the endosperm of the seed and that's the interior part of the seed so they are not removed by any method except the specialized hot water treatment.

I can't answer the question about a longer soak time with chlorine being more effective since I don't know any data available to say which pathogens can be lessened and how effective, so there's no baseline to go from.

Which diseases can these pathogens cause? I don't know how to answer your question b/c I don't know which pathogens you're referring to. ( smile)

In WI where you live the most prevalent tomato diseases are the foliage diseases and the four major ones are Early Blight ( A. solani), Septoria Leaf Spot, Bacterial Speck and Bacterial Spot, but the first two are fungal and I do know that Dr. Dillard's results showed that those two fungal ones were lessened with Fermentation.

You also can have occasional Verticillium, but rarely Fusarium, and I do know that Fusarium is lessened on the seed coat but can't remember if Verticillium is but would assume so.

The long ago words about what fermentation could accomplish are as follows, but the data that came later proved some of them to not be true.

Helps remove the gel on the seeds; very true, so you end up with fluffy seeds the same as you'd buy.

Inactivates seed borne pathogens; later data has indicated which ones

The acid conditions of the fermentation kill viruses; not true since those viruses tested to date are not on the seed coat. Commercial seed producers often TSP to treat their seeds b'c it's known that TSP can destroy TMV ( Tobacco Mosaic Virus), but don't ask me how b'c I don't know. LOL TSP treated seeds are pretty easy to ID b'c the seeds are smaller than normal, not fuzzy, and much darker in color.

The mold that forms on atop the the fermentation has fungi that produce antibiotics that can kill or lessen any bacterial pathogens; not true b'c as said above, those bacterial pathogens tested to date, and that's not ALL of them, are in the endosperm of the seed.

Hope that helps.

Carolyn, who also thinks that many home growers as well as many of the smaller seed companies who sell tomato seed, and many of them produce their own seed although some subcontract out and some buy wholesale off the shelf ro a combo of those methods, use fermentation b'c they don't want to use anything other than the natural means that the tomatoes do themselves as to dropped fruits leading to more of the same kind, all a part of the natural life cycle of the tomato. And I forgot to mention that both TSP and actual acids are two other ways that commercial seed producers produce their seed. Lots of info on the net about that.

Carol "Which diseases can these pathogens cause? I don't know how to answer your question b/c I don't know which pathogens you're referring to. ( smile) "
I am refering to the pathogens you are trying to kill .Doh

Carol "Which diseases can these pathogens cause? I don't know how to answer your question b/c I don't know which pathogens you're referring to. ( smile) "
I am refering to the pathogens you are trying to kill .Doh

*****

Well Doh back.LOL

I'm trying to kill the same pathogens that I think you are which is why in my post above I went into detail about what I would expect that you might have in WI b/c our gardening zones and weather are about the same as are the major tomato diseases.

Off hand I don't know the answer about pathogens such as the many fungal and bacterial systemic ones that are found much further south than us.

And Dr. Dillard's research was sponsored by either Heinz or Campbells, I can't remember which, and she worked at the USDA station in Geneva, NY so what she looked at is what they asked her to look as to mostly the folige pathogens as well as Fusarium. My info from her was mainly by phone and I have rememered it well over the years. I was referred to her by I think Dr. Tom Zitter at Cornell who is a tomato disease specialist and I knew him b/c of what I named CRUD and also b'c he's the one who taught Dale Riggs her tomato disease knowledge initially and she was the Cornell Coop Ext Director for the 5 county area around Albany, NY and did a disease survey of my heirloom varieties conducted by some interns she had.

I learned almost all I know about tomato diseases from her and Dr. Zitter with one other source which was very important. In the early 90's Craig LeHoullier and I were writing and co-publishing an international heirloom newsletter called Off The Vine. One of the projects was to ID the most important tomato diseases in different parts of the country. For background info I spent hours on the phone calling Coop Ext Directors in many states and asking them to give me the top 10 diseases found in their area and then sent out to all the participants a great little monograph, with pictures of diseases, that I got free from Ciba Geigy and i still have a half box full of those that weren't used since they sent me 500 copies. LOL

OK? (smile)

Carolyn

Will the seeds die if I soak em in Vodka? And will I die if I drink that Vodka afterwards?

Sorry couldn't resist :p