Dave/digdirt -- question -- as you state, the pH range isn't all that wide. Is it perhaps more a question of the sugar content (brix) of the tomatoes that affects their perceived acidity than the actual variation in pH?

I seem to recall, from OH, OH, OH so many years ago in my Introduction to Horticulture class at Michigan State, being taught that the pH of Sweet Cherries was actually lower than that of Lemons, and that it was simply the lack of sugars in the lemons that made them seem so much more acidic. Don't know if this is actually true or not, but it seemed to make sense and stuck with me.

One tomato that I find will "curl your toes" if grown under the right conditions is Burpee's 4th of July. Made some sauce and juice from them last year that seemed like it would take the lime scale off the shower door, but it was SO GOOD. The didn't seem quite as acidic this year, but they're definitely a more "tart" tasting than average tomato.

Is it perhaps more a question of the sugar content (brix) of the tomatoes that affects their perceived acidity than the actual variation in pH?

Per past discussions here, I'd say yes it is. The taste buds of the average person perceive sweet before bitter some have said. Some have also stated that soil acidity as well as time on the vine can greatly affect the perceived taste as brix develops over time. I know the labels "low-acid" is applied to some varieties ie: Lemon Boy, but its actual acid content isn't that much different than others so perhaps it has a higher sugar content.

Can we actually taste the difference between a pH of 4.5 and one of 4.7? Who knows. I can't but then I have a very old tongue. ;)

Dave

Here's your link to a list of heirloom varieties and their PH and Brix readings. I think the better term would be "Acidic Tasting Tomatoes" versus "Acidic Tomatoes". Ami

Here is a link that might be useful: Heirloom Cultivar Evaluation

Thanks Dave/digdirt. We had forgotten all about the pH for the garden! Guess you can tell it's been a couple years since we've had a very large garden, and time to bone up on it again. We used to plant everything; i.e., potatoes,4 types of tomatoes, 8 kinds of peppers, corn, popcorn, broccoli, kohlrabi, lettuce, cabbage, spinach, peas and beans, plus we had fruit trees and a strawberry patch. We never could plant carrots,radishes, or onions because of grubs that ate them, but always had a bounty of everything else.

We had to give up all when hubby started working away from home every week and I worked 7 days a week. Now that he's "almost" retired, we can get back on track.

I've read quite a few discussions from the link you posted and will show these to hubby. Time to get back to the basics.

Thank you again. There is hope for us. LOL

"Can someone suggest a good one?"

Bolseno: A hybrid tomato from Johnny's Selected Seeds. This tomato will grow in great numbers on a rampant indeterminate vine and give you lots of baseball size tart red fruit over an extending season. One of the best canners I ever grew. Very disease resistant.

There are many factors that are involved with tomato taste, and primary are the genes that any one variety has as well as individual perception of taste since there is a genetic association in humans as regards taste.

But in addition to pH and soluble sugars ( Brix) even more important is the fact the over 400 organic compounds have been detected by mass spectroscopy that are involved in taste altho the genes for them have yet to be identified.

When someone says they like acidic tomatoes I ASAP translate that to an agreesive taste or strong taste.

I can only share with you some varieties that I find to have a strong or agressive taste to me, but I don't know how you'll perceive them:

Older commercial varieties:

New Yorker
Valiant
Sandpoint
Rutgers
Break O day
Wisconsin 55
Manalucie

OP's, not commerical varieties: ( heirlooms are starred)

Tigerella, the original one that's a small red with jagged gold stripes
*Aunt Gertie's Gold
Any of the Spanish heirlooms such as Muchmiel, and above Bill has mentioned Bolseno at Johnny's Selected Seeds which is similar
*Silvery For Tree
*Gold Ball
*Green Gage ( is yellow)

........and there are others

So while the primary determinates of tomato taste are the genes that a particular variety has, there are so many other variables that have been spoken to above.

Carolyn

Hey Rootdigger; I too love acidic tomatoes. Sioux is the variety that I have found to consistantly produce acidic fruit. These are widely available and easy to find. It is determinate so I stagger the plantings so I have a longer harvest.

Rootdigger, it's very possible that your family and mine could share a tomato garden. My wife likes the sweeter toms and I like the good old fashioned acid tasting varieties.

Carolyn gave you a good list and she and Bill and Dave could all type "for a while" and still be adding to the list. Lots of good info above.

This year, we (my wife and I) agreed on Cherokee Purple (OP) and somewhat on Golden Jubilee (OP). We tried Mountain Fresh (hybrid) and both liked it on BLT's. Digdirt named another I would have mentioned - Supersteak (hybrid) - wife didn't care for this one (too much acid).

Some other's we grew this year that might be a good compromise that you both might like are Giant Tree (slightly acid, but not really over the top), Black From Tula (Nice size, great flavor), and Big Rainbow which might also be a good compromise. (all OP)

For Cherry toms, Sungold for the sweet and SuperSweet 100 for the acid side. Super mild would fit Yellow Pear (OP), and nicely acid and sweet would fit Tumbling Tom Red (OP).

Hope this gives you folks some ideas.

Personal message to "Almost Retired" - RETIREMENT IS GOOD! Retirement is VERY GOOD!!!!!!

You had mentioned in your first post above that you had at least some concern or maybe it was just interest in whether or not you could plant an acid and a sweet type and get crossed fruit. Cross pollination would happen in the first year of the fruit growing and would only show up the following year from saved seeds. But here's the problem. The probability of gettting a cross is very small and is normally referred to here as less than 5%. Plus, you won't know what the mix of traits are IF you DO get a cross until the grow out in the second year. AND, those traits have a strong chance of not being stable. (Lots of "CHANCE" in there - no real certainties)

Take care. If you would like any of the OP's that I mentioned above, Email me your address and I'll send you some to try.

Ted

:>)

Top Gun is very good and nice bite, and Bill Z says Bolzeno so I would not be hesitant to try them. Top guns are at Twilleys and Bolzenos at Johnny's seed.

Garyjoe

The most acidic tomato I ever tasted was Purple Calabash.

If you are looking for strictly ACIDIC it's your gal! She's
astringent she's so acidic!

I'm going to give a big thumbs up to my favorite tomato, Burgundy Traveler. It's a medium to small globe tomato, dark but not "black" (what Carolyn calls a pink-black). And it is tart and very, very tasty, not sweet.

I could also recommend a couple of others that are sometimes better, like Indian Stripe and Paul Robeson. But what I like about Burgundy Traveler is how damnably consistent it is. For instance, with Indian Stripe, the taste can be 180 degrees different depending on when you pick it, either very rich and tomato-pasty, when you pick it late, or tart like a Burgundy Traveler if you pick it a little early. But as I said, Burgundy Traveler just seems to be very consistent in that they tend to taste just as good every time, not as sensitive to when you pluck them, nor the season. Even the shrimpy stragglers I'm getting this late are good, if small and ugly. And the plant is hardy and productive. So I give it a big thumbs up if you like acidic TASTING tomatoes, as I do.

Rootdigger,
Out of the hundreds of tomatoes that I grew this year, three varieties stand out in my mind, as having an acidic or less sweet taste. They are: Dr. Wyche's Yellow, West Virginia Straw, and Arkansas Traveler. The Dr. Wyche's has both sweet and strong acidic tastes but after a few,you can feel that acidic burn in your mouth. The West Virginia Straw had a very concentrated taste to it almost like a tomato paste. The Arkansas Traveler wasn't as acidic as the other two, but still leaned more to the acidic than sweet side. Of course that's here in South Central Pa. Don't know how they'll do in your part of the state.
Hope you find what your looking for!
Camo

Update on the link above to Purdue's page by miesenbacher which no longer works. If you google Purdue.edu and the title, in his link, you'll get a link to Heirloom Tomato Cultivar Evaluation which is dated in 2004 so may be the same page. It does list a lot of heirloom tomato varieties and their Brix and PH values. They also give you some idea of how productive each variety by weight.

I ordered Fred's Tie Dye and my stomach may regret it. There is a Youtube tomato tasting video where Dale the dog prefers a zesty acid tomato, he went for the Fred's Tie Dye.

If you want your tomatoes to be more acidic (and sweeter), try warming the soil (with black plastic, or whatever alternative you prefer).