I should add that we are a family of 5, 3 young children, and we eat at home and use the dishwasher frequently.

There is no such dishwasher that will meet all those criteria. The only one that may come close to meeting all those criteria is a Miele.

Here is a link that might be useful: Dishwasher Truth

I am sorry your KA is not performing up to spec. I want to suggest something else that you may not have considered. Have you considered searching Craigslist or Ebay for a Miele? You already have invested money in the KA and just a general search of my local Craigslist and Ebay show several new Miele DWs on sale for $700. I would buy a used Miele first. This is my preference and I have done this on many items and not had a problem yet. I wanted a particular Laurastar Iron (the S5) which is the top of the line model and when I first started looking at it, they were about $1900. They now retail for about $2300. I found a used S4, the model below the S5, on ebay and purchased it for $350. I spent another $70 on a new cover and a iron cord holder. For $420 I have something that I really wanted and someone got to get rid of something they were not using. After having the S4, I can't imagine what the performance difference would be on the S5. I will tell you that the lowest model of the Miele still blows away my old KA dishwasher that came with the house.

Good luck!

You might check out the new Ascenta line from Bosch. The mid level Ascenta is quieter than a SHE33 and has more features. In SS it should be about $600.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bosch Ascenta

Funyuns,
It looks like that model does not have a stainless tub. It is a hybrid tub with stainless sides and a plastic bottom? Is that correct? If you live somewhere with hard water the plastic tub may not be your best choice.

Good luck!

I'm checking Sears and the Ascenta looks like a good option.... I can get in black for under $500, which sounds like a great deal and it has good reviews at Sears.com. We do have harder water. But I don't know why a plastic tub would be a big concern.

I'm curious about what the lowest cost Miele is, if it's under $1000?

I would feel pretty skittish about buying a used DW, although it sounds like a great approach for other appliances.

Mikolainis,
A plastic tub will stain faster and look stained. Also, plastic does not retain heat as well which could make drying performance on the Ascenti less than optimum because it does not use a heating element.

Just an FYi, many of the dishwashers I see for sale are floor models or brand new and never used. Since I don't know where you live, I would suggest you look at Craigslist and Ebay for your area.

The lowest cost miele used to be the Inspira I believe and it was $1200.

Good luck!

Best overall dishwasher and value is Whirlpool and has been for years and I have had one for over 30 years and never had a stained tub or a service call, I replaced the old one with a new one 4 years ago only because of a remodel not service problems or noise or the need for a stainless tub.

I recommend strongly RUNNING from a Maytag. After my experience I would never have another. We added a 2nd dishwasher in our last house...a top of the line model Maytag...Very inefficient configuration for fitting in tall (16 oz) glasses and dinner plates. Dirty and wet dishes even though it had a food grinder and heated dry. LOUD from a room away, even though it was their quietest. It couldn't hold a candle to the 6 yr old Bosch we had at the same time, which was silent, and had no food grinder or heated dry, but did a better job. We have two 500-series Bosches in our new house and are quite happy with what we have for the money we spent (value). I don't think you have to go with Miele to get quiet, good performance, and durability. But that argument is going on in the other current thread on the forum linked below... ;-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Bosch vs Miele thread

I can tell you the new KA Architect I bought just a year ago is wonderful. Not noisy, great at fitting tall things, and gets dishes sparkling. Also, check online retailers for deals. I bought mine from US appliance.
Also check Sears for floor models. I bought and Icon DW floor model that was, I think, $700. It is very quiet and also cleans the dishes beautifully.
Good luck

I agree about the Maytag. I hate mine. It is very noisey and does not clean or dry well. It is only 4 years old and I will replace it soon.

There has been a lot of change in the US appliance industry over the past 20 years. The original KitchenAid dishwasher was designed by Hobart whose engineers mainly designed commercial foodservice equipment. That's why they lasted 25-30 years. Around 1990 KitchenAid was purchased by Whirlpool, who designs residential equipment. They operate differently. They pick a price-point and features and their engineers get the job of making it as cheaply as possible. That's where their profits come from. I know from personal contacts that when Whirlpool bought KitchenAid the first thing they did was to assign their engineers to find ways to make the KA dishwasher design cheaper, not, as one would have hoped, to make the Whirlpool dishwashers better. The only higher quality products in the market now are those designed to the somewhat higher standards of the European consumer market such as Bosch and Miele who are basically filling the void left by the demise of the original KitchenAid in the US.

How much difference can this cheaper-is-better engineering make? I've got a couple good examples. Here's my best one. We had a Whirlpool dishwasher that broke a little pin in its locking handle. The pin broke with the door locked, so there was no way to unlock the door to replace the pin. It would have been a hundred dollar service call if I didn't just get lucky with a coat hanger. Called the local appliance parts store. Yep, they had them in stock. The price was $0.80. I asked for two. The service technician standing there with the parts man spoke up and said emphatically, "Make sure you don't give him the last one!" I won't go into the details but the pin design guaranteed that it would fail and just $0.10 added cost would have guaranteed that it would never ever fail. Repeat this a hundred times on a hundred components and you save a lot of manufacturing cost. So you have it with a design philosophy that basically says that the service life of a part absolutely has to be greater than the warrantee period, but other than that it doesn't really matter how long it lasts. The typical consumer appliance in the US shares it's internals with its cousins up to the pro-style version. The costlier externals are what you pay extra for as you move up in price. How different from a higher spec design like Bosch where the whole line shares quality internals and discounts lower priced models by removing features.

Check out a Blomberg. Essentially a Bosch but without the pricetag.

One that you can get heavily discounted. Three out of the four of my major kitchen appliances: cooktop, oven/microwave, dishwasher have been from a nearby Sears Outlet - all items practically brand new. Dishwashers don't last, I have had 3 in the last 19 years, the latest being a Bosch Ascenta SHE4AM15UC I found a week ago for just under $400. You have to plan ahead and go by periodically to see what they have in inventory. Actually, all 3 were impulse buys...

annette - "Repeat this a hundred times on a hundred components and you save a lot of manufacturing cost. "

you forgot the best part - Whirlpool or someone in their network gets the $100 service call!

Lupe- your old Whirlpool might have lasted 30 years but I guarantee your new one won't. Consider yourself luck if you get half that. Growing up we had Kitchen Aid DWs back when they were made by Hobart. At least one of them is still in operation today at 40 + years. Think their new stuff is as good? No way, the few folks I know that went with them either got rid of them because of complete failure, leaks that couldn't be solved, or they are still living with em and complaining. The replacements? Miele or Bosch, no complaints and whatwas recd in the first place. Another great American brand ruined by the MBA class. KA is under the Whirlpool umbrella in case you're wondering and a terrific case of how to screw something up.

annette, antss, I concur.

A few thoughts to bear in mind; when thinking about which machine may be more reliable than another and which ones are replaced in lieu of repair.

In the area where we service, there are many upmarket multi-family and single family home projects. Often GE Profile or Kitchenaid Archtect appliances outfit the kitchens. Naturally, you are going to see more service calls due to volume. Bosch, Asko & Miele are out there too, but in far fewer numbers. Yet these machines are faced with the same inept installers and often disinterested users who create a lot of the service requirements that we happily fulfill in and out-of-warranty. We could write a book about the misuse of clothes washers and bad dryers venting, but that is another service topic & forum.

Often purchase price plays into whether appliances are repaired. A 7-9 year old mid-grade dishwasher that can be replaced for $600-700 most likely won't be repaired if the cost is over $250. Many GE, Kitchenaid, Whirlpool, Bosch machines fall into this catagory. Usually a $2000 Miele or Asko with a custom fully integrated cabinet panel will be repaired with repair cost reaching into the $1000 price range. Don't kid yourself into thinking this never happems just because of a marketing claim of a 20 year life span. Some of these machines have extended factory warranties on components that the owners know nothing about. So without proof of purchase many warranted repairs are written up as a cash call. Sometimes creating a reason for unnecessary disappointment and repair of replacement cost as purchase documentation is no where to be found.

The old Kitchenaid porcelain tub machines were very good. Their often frequent need for repairs kept many a repairman busy and his family fed. Again, they were expensive quality machines in their day and the cost of repair was usually reasonable. They worked well and they were repaired as needed. The days of inexpensive service are long over on any appliance.

Another factor: many people don't have patience for repairs and would rather replace. Although with the 'new' economic reality that is changing.

The old Kitchenaid porcelain tub machines were very good. Their often frequent need for repairs kept many a repairman busy and his family fed.

My parents had one of those classic KAs (KDI-17a), bought in 1975. No repairs ever through the 28 years they had it. The pump bearings went bad in 2003. I bought one in 1992 (KUDS22), which is after Whirlpool took over KA but it's still of the KA design with porcelain tub. No repairs on it, my sister is now using it.

dixie - would you clarify your statement on the KA interiors. Are you say they are/were good but need frequent reapir too? If so, tell us how you were repairing a porcelain tub in a home?

antss, not sure what your question is? I referred to the previous Kitchenaid dishwasher design that had a porcelain on steel tub and door. Known as KD15, KD16, KD17, KD18, KD19, KD20, KD21, KD22, KD23 series. The porcelain tub could be repaired if damaged with epoxy or silcone type repair kits.

They were heavily-constructed durable yet complex machines. Common causes of service calls unique to these unit were/are

*foreign objects in the drain valves
*wash arm & support replacement
*dual solenoid fill valve failure
*detergent dispenser & bi-metal actuator problems
*blower & heater system failure
*water heating thermostats
*door springs & hinges
*upper rack water manifold & china-guard
*program switches--pushbutton cycle selector

plus the typical dishwasher problems, rusty racks, pump shaft seal leaks, timers.

Lots of these dishwasher ran for years with no need for service, yet many others needed more frequent attention. Plenty of them are still around as are GE's, Whirlpool's & Kenmores.

Sorry to be a downer, but there are no "best value performing" dishwashers. I asked my favorite repairman. (who keeps coming back to fix my lousy Kenmore washer and dryer that broke after one year) He said all major appliances made in America suck. (He's American) None (in this country) are made as they used to be made...TO LAST around 15-20 years like your Mom's and mine. He told me the best I could do was to pick one of the major brands and get the EXTENDED WARRANTY. Those were his words. (Kitchenaids used to last forever,...remember?) Well Kitchenaid's ain't Kitchenaid's and it gets to be REAL confusing to figure out what you're getting out there in "Appliance World". CONSUMER BEWARE!!
He mentioned how now all they want to do is cut corners and get the cost down so that they can compete, and that some of the parts they use look like toys you find in Cracker Jacks. Bummer...I know. After hours and hours of research I went with a middle-ish of the line "Miele" (family owned German company) three years ago when I had to replace my three year old Maytag which I shelled out $600 for. Back then the Miele was around $1300. This Miele has been fantastic with 00 problems what-so-ever. Knock- on-zee-wood! They are said to last 18-20 years or longer. (hopefully I'll live to see) Aside from plugging Miele, just wanted to say that you might want to think about a warranty,...because you see, when you have to shell out $350 for the computer circuit board that went out on your six or seven hundred dollar dishwasher, it won't make you very happy! You will feel like you "may as well buy a new one" but then there you go all over again. The "computer" stuff is usually the first to go, and most expensive to fix. I would Google the make and model you have your eye on and look at the complaint records. Bosch is not what it used to be either. When I was searching I ran across a blog where an ex employee was explaining what has gone on with them and how they have gone way down hill cutting corners, etc. My sis had a Bosch and had troubles too. Good luck- I know it's nerve racking!!

Dixie, this statement seems to be a contradiction to me:

"The old Kitchenaid porcelain tub machines were very good. Their often frequent need for repairs...... "

I was wondering if they were so good why they needed repairs. I/we had a couple of these growing up and one is still in service as far as I know in a cabin from the 60's. I had never heard of a sucessfull porcelain repair in the field. I never cared for those epoxy kits myself because the looked like rot. I am also going from the standpoint that stainless tubs are the way to go. I've never seen/heard of a failure and a scratch might not be pretty but the tub doesn't need repair. Personally had one porcelain tub crap out on me. No more, and plastic? Well.........

I just got rid of a Maytag (due to a kitchen remodel) - after having about 3 dishwashers in 10 years, the Maytag lasted more than 10 years and was still going strong (and cleaned the best out of everyother one I ever had). I guess sometimes you just get a good one !

I have a Maytag DW that works quite well.

It's a middle-of-the-road model with a stainless tub, a few wash cycles and delayed start. It's reasonably quiet and cleans the dishes well. I think it was around $400.

by far the miele is the best on the market, mine lasted 20 years and the features are awsome.

I know appliances today aren't made like they used to be. But it makes me wonder why? I mean, there was competition even back then! All those name brands even then were competing with each other. Why would the appliance manufacturer NOT want an early fail back then so the consumer would have to go out and purchase a new appliance? Surely they realized that by making a product to last 20 plus years that they would lose all those customers for the many years their appliance continued to work.

I have a four year old Whirlpool DW and I was reading the manual because the rinse aid dispenser was leaking from the cap.......I started looking at the warranty and was surprised to see a couple of things.

It has a ONE YEAR full warranty

Second year limited warranty on "wash module"
"In the 2nd year from the date of purchase, when this dishwasher is operated and maintained according to instructions attached to or furnished with the product. Whirlpool Corporation will pay for FSP replacement parts for any part of the wash module if defective in materials or workmanship"

2nd through 5th year limited warrant on electronic control system and nylon-coated dishracks

"In the 2nd through the 5th years from the date of purchase, when this dishwasher is operated and maintained according to instructions attached to or furnished with this product, Whirlpool will pay for the FSP replacement parts for the following components if defective in materials or workmanship: the electronic control system, the upper and lower dishracks (for models with nylon-coated dish racks)"

Twenty year warranty on tub and inner door should it fail to contain water, if defective in materials or workmanship. Service must be provided by a Whirlpool designated service company.

did someone say whirlpool? i wouldn't risk this. i have one in my temporary house (purchased new four years ago) and it has NEVER come close to the kind of clean my bosch would give us. i bought meile's for the new house...

i'm laughing here because sometimes i just hand wash the dishes since i know i'll just end up doing it anyway after they come out of our good 'ol unreliable whirlpool!

I recently purchased an entry-level Miele (an Advanta Inspira) for $1100. (And I live in Northern California where prices aren't that low.) It was a store model, and the dealer was no longer selling Mieles. He also had an older model for around $800. If you have the time to wait for a great deal that comes your way, the Miele or Bosch may be the way to go.

Really? My Whirlpool dishwasher get the dishes very clean. I must say, some dish detergents don't do as well as others. When I use electrosol or cascade complete with a little citric acid, the dishes look great, they are not pre rinsed and I just use the normal cycle without high temp option and it runs just about 65 minutes. I think it's more about the detergent you use as opposed to the dishwasher.

I am considering a Kitchen Aid or Electrolux dishwasher. What models would you recommend between the two? Is it worth paying the extra money for the Electrolux? I love the ease and durability of the Electrolux racks. The noise level is also very important to me.

I've read so many things on the internet about appliances/dishwashers etc. Based on the info, one would think that purchasing a top of the line dishwasher it would be less repair prone. That is what makes me nervous about buying a TOL dishwasher. I've heard that some of the cheaper dishwashers when tested cleaned as well as the most expensive ones.

At some point in the evolutionary cycle, they reach a plateau of Good-ness, and all further improvements are minimal.
At some point in the last ten years, they almost all became quiet and wash well, except for the throwbacks from a previous age that some manufacturers still produce since they can still be sold.
That's my view which got me a deal; I asked for three different appliances in a package, and the DW was the one that I specified the least; I just wanted a basic good clean + quiet with 2 specific features and no other requirement.
I was more directive about the induction and the convection oven.

-d

2010: just wanted to caution about Blomberg dishwashwer. I would wait for more info and watch it's track record. I have one. 2 service issues in the first 4 months. Parts take FOREVER to come from Blomberg.

The guy that said all American branded products suck is probably right. We had one of those old 70's KA DW's in our previous home. Worked great. Got a new KA all-stainless in our latest house and it failed (primary motor bearings) after about 8 years. Ended with another KA stainless, less money, same hidden control panel but only a few controls (fortunately the ones we use). Only hope that this one lasts. Replacing the motor in the old one would have been about $500! Looked at others, but liked the layout of the KA. Appliance Advisor says Energy Star is complete sham per GAO, worth reading!

Here is a link that might be useful: Appliance Advisor