Software
Houzz Logo Print
flyfighter

Appliances?!?!?! HELP!!!

13 years ago

Hi All,

We are building a house and in the process of working with the kitchen designer, so we have to make final decisions on appliances. We cook 3 meals a day at home on average, so we cook A LOT.

What we are considering--

48" rangetop (gas)
We want 48" so we have the griddle and chargrill option along with 4 burners
Looking at Wolf and just added Capital Culinarian to the "maybe" list after reading further info here (Bluestar not an option where we live) . We currently grill outdoors A LOT, so thinking indoor option will be great for winter or rain! Dh is familiar with using commercial cooking appliances, so can we handle the CC? Also, how is service and reliability? Wolf HQ is in Madison, 2 hours away, and we have 2 local service companies for Wolf.

Hood is going to be integrated into cabinetry and vented out the attic, with the blower motor housed in the attic for quiet operation. Pretty sure we're going to need substantial power with the 48" range top with chargrill. Would love suggestions!

30" Convection Wall Oven + Steam Convection oven, configured like double wall oven. Very much leaning toward Wolf L-series here. We don't want to bend down for oven on a traditional range--dh has bad back. Steam oven just seems too cool of an option not to get. Hate microwave, but accept it is a necessary evil, but love the idea of using steam oven more and microwave less.

48" side-by-side Frig. Leaning toward sub-zero. Thoughts on exterior door ice water dispenser vs. inside frig? Our toddler currently loves to play with our exterior water dispenser and we have another one on the way...very annoying! Other frig suggestions? Sub-zero seems to have a pretty fabulous warranty and reputation.

Microwave--? Wolf??? 27" probably better for the spot it's going to be built-in. We don't microwave much. Occasional TV dinner for quick/desperate lunch type of thing. Def does not need to be convection.

Dishwasher--We're going to have hardwood floors, so leaning toward Bosch, since it has integrated pan to catch leaks. Thoughts? We do currently love our Kitchenaid with the steel tub and potscrubber option, but it is maybe better for a tile floor like we currently have? Water a huge concern since we had to gut our current kitchen over a slow dishwasher leak in the past :(

THANK YOU FOR ANY HELP :)

Comments (11)

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    1)48" Range. Anybody with an IQ above 70 can handle a CC. Food will cook more evenly which requires less stiring but you can still stir till your heart's content if you wish. Food will cook much faster partially as a result of that eveness and also a tendancy to turn up the heat. I use to prep, put ingredient in hot pan,prep,stir,prep,but next ingredient in pan. Now with my CC I do all my prep first then start cooking.Like a Chef on TV. Different but kinda cool.

    Service and reliablity. Service mostly depends on the local service company.You may want to find out who services Capital locally then research them on Yelp and elsewhere. When the CC first came out two years ago Capital sales skyrocketed and they had a difficult time keeping up with returning phone calls and shipping parts to local service companies in a timely manner.That seems resolved now. Quality is as good as Wolf. Meaning not perfect but as good as the industry best.

    2) Range Hood Inserts. The best are Modern-Aire and Prestige. If going with an attic blower MA has the edge because they use Abakka remote blowers. Renowned for quality and quiet operation.Best by Broan is the industry standard for your application. Solid but not great product. If total installtion cost is not much higher for ~1600cfm than 1200cfm I would go with 1600cfm for your application. 1200cfm minimum.

    3)Wall ovens. I have small preferance for Gaggenau wall oven over Wolf L-Series mainly for the side opening door. You don't need to reach over a hot oven door to reach bakeware.Gagg also has air-catylizer which cleans air before exiting into your kitchen. No grease on walls/cabinets as a result of wall oven use.

    When it comes to steam oven I have a large preferance for Gagg over Wolf. Wolf has a water tank you fill manually while Gagg is plumbed. Filling the tank manually does not seem very luxurious given the price but this allows Wolf to have a larger cavity. But Gagg cavity is quite large. How many veggies do you need to steam?

    4)48" Fridge. SubZero is first rate when it comes to everything except in-door water dispenser. The SZ in-door dispenser has a well earned reputation for being repair prone and SZ refuses to change its complicated system. If you want an in-door ice dispenser Gaggenau,Miele,or Thermador Freezer tower plus Fridge tower may be a better option. And you can pick what size you want 24" Fridge plus 24" Freezer or 30" Fridge plus 18" Freezer.

    5)Microwave. Wolf does not make any microwaves. It subcontacts that out to Sharp. You can buy the Sharp equivalent and save cash or buy Wolf and get matching doorskins for you Wolf ovens.

    I have a Sharp MW drawer. It comes in 24" or 30" door but the cavity is the same size.When I got it I thought it was the finishing touch to a high-end kitchen. Now that I use it almost everyday I love grabbing plates with two hands from a drawer as opposed to a countertop high or higher box and closing it with a bump of the hip. I have a $7200 range but all my guest are wowed by my microwave LOL.

    6) Dishwasher. Miele's double waterproof system is at least as good Bosch's. Plus if you are really paranoid about flooding your hardwood floors you can get Miele's TOL dishwasher it comes with a 5 year service plan that includes 24 Hr monitoring by Miele's HQ's via Wifi. At first sign of trouble it they shut it down and give you a call/email to setup service appointmet.

    In JD Powers last Dishwasher rating Bosch won value and ease of use categories plus the overall category. Miele won performance,reliablity and service.Miele had won the overall category the three previous years.

    If you are a wine connoisseur Riedel has named Miele as the only approved DW for Riedel stemware.I have the previous generation TOL Miele DW,the La Perla II. Love love love it. Cleans extremely well and does it extemely efficiently with low water and electricity use. Below is link to youtube videos for the current generation Miele dishwasher.

    Here is a link that might be useful: LINK

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    With a 2-yr-old and new baby once this house is finished, IQ over 70 is questionable LOL, but let's hope for the best!

    Thank you for the suggestions, deeageaux. We grill or roast meats 1-2x daily (unless we get our act together and batch cook and are just reheating--which seems another good use for the steam oven) and steam veggies usually 1-2x daily for a soon-to-be family of 4. Having a plumbed steam oven would obviously be much more convenient. Like that it has a 30" option. Also, steam oven option seems potentially a bit safer than hot boiling water on the range top. My son is obsessed with our range currently :-/ Gaggenau also looks like it has very good safety features, another plus. Will head to appliance showroom later today to check on availability AND service here in the boonies :)

    I honestly am not a fan of frig ice dispensers and water dispensers. Moving parts break. We have very hard water, even with a softener, that makes daily cleaning of the door dispenser mandatory to avoid calcium build-up. Does the internal ice maker (non-dispenser) also have issues on SZ or is it good?

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I guess I'm cheap. If I was not going to use a microwave that much, I would not buy an expensive one. I would put that money somewhere else. I would get a cheap unit on sale somewhere and put it in the pantry.

    It would seem to me that anyone could put a pan under a DW no matter what brand.

    Since you're going to be getting a decent hood, don't forget MakeUpAir. It's one of those things you need to plan for up front in the house build.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Re Sub Zero if you skip ice dispenser you are good to go.
    Fantastic fridge,the 48" BI without in-door ice.

    Re Hard water. You can really take advantage of Miele's built-in water softner dishwashers. All of them have it except the entry level model,the Classic. In this case I would strongly recommend a Miele Dishwasher anywhere from Crystal to Diamond.

    Re Weedmeisters comments about cheap MW.

    I got a reconditioned Sharp MW with warranty off of Ebay.
    It was $499 two years ago I think they are a bit more today. Given the cost of SubZero/Wolf/Capital/Gagg/and/or Miele package the MW drawer is peanuts.Looks great integrated and gives kitchen a little extra wow factor.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The difference between Wolf and CC range top-
    CC has higher BTUs but Wolf has dual stacked burners that go supper low on all. We cook for a lot of people and use that low end all the time and need it on all the burners. Others prefer the high heat for stirfrying or boiling water a little faster.

    There is nothing magical about one burner over the other as far as eveness of heat. They each have a given configuration of a gas flame. The CC has a more centralized heat-more even for smaller pans and the Wolf has a little wider ring, more even for bigger pans. Wolf also has a "small pan burner". This will matter mostly if you use cast iron or steel pans. If you have cookware with a reasonable amount of copper or aluminum that conducts heat well, it is the intermediary between the food and flame and will provide even heat. I use a 7 inch pan on the larger burner to caramelize sugar without stirring. I could use the smaller burner but don't need to.

    You may want to consider how you clean each. The Wolf being sealed is just a quick wipe. If anything is dried on I put a wet cloth on it and let it soak and wipe it up. Here is a video about cleaning the CC. It is a matter of personal preference. The quality of fit and finish is subjective. Pull off the knobs and see how you like the feel of the grates. If you can try them live-do it! Ask if there are any local demos. We drove 250 miles to look at a BS. I cook a lot so this was a small investment in time for me.

    You can read quite a bit on this forum about how each treats customers on a corporate level which is ultimately what determines the level of service on a local level. I had another range and oven before I had the Wolf range I have now and I can guarantee nothing is worse than corporate apathy. Your local people have their hands tied as far as providing service if they have no support on the corporate level. If I did buy a CC, I would consider getting it from Eurostoves as they seem to have an "in" with the manufacturer. They will also pay for you to fly in and try out the CC if you buy it from them. Check out the details with them about that.

    I would consider an overlay griddle just to give yourself more flexibility both with griddle size and amount of burners. People like chef king which is steel(heavy) but hold heat but there are also those made of aluminum which are lightweight and conduct heat well and give better heat control. They are often nonstick but are available uncoated as well.

    I don't like my hood insert which is a Broan-too rattly and they were unable to fix it. It works ok though.

    I have a Wolf oven(36") in a range and like the dual convection fans and elements. Very even. My Electrolux wall oven(30") is also very even. I also prefer the drop down door and feel it is safer to have it in place. I would consider some of the other things like the racks, internal lighting and available functions. I keep a roll out rack on the bottom of my ovens but prefer standard racks otherwise. I am constantly adding/removing the third one and changing them around. Some lights are glaring and make it hard to see in the oven. Some are also placed lower and make it hard to see what is in the oven.

    We chose a KA frig over the SZ just because I liked the layout and placement of the icemaker better. I don't like ice/water through the door so ours is plain on the front. I don't think the fit and finish is as nice with KA and at the time there was only about $1K difference. The KA does work really well though.

    I can't say about a steam oven as I don't have one. I can't see where I would ever use it as I never steam veggies or seafood. We tend to grill and roast as I like the "browning". Most reheats are a portion at a time in the MW.

    I like my Bosch dishwasher(800 series). It gets everything spotless. The only problem has been the flip up tines on the bottom rack have broken. I did not want a silverware rack, because it would be too fussy for me to have to place each piece in the rack. I hand wash our Riedel and silver as well as some of the antique dishes and pots and pans just because I don't like to expose it to chemicals. I have some very thin knock off wine glasses and wash them with no problems.

    We just put in an inexpesive GE space saver MW as it gets minimal use. It is actually by the frig so anyone reheating is away from the cooking area. I did consider a drawer but at the time some people reported the drawer being harder to clean, especially spatters.

    I always recommend Don Silvers book --Kitchen Design with Cooking in Mind as it was recommended to me on this forum. He has some excellent ideas. He also has a website.

    Good Luck with your decisions.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    We put our riedel in the miele(and our Waterford and china!)

    How about going with a GE Advantium instead of the Wolf microwave? You can get the trim kit that coordinates with the wolf ovens.
    It microwaves, convection bakes and lots of other cool things. I baked Zingermans pot pies in 20 minutes and they normally take at least an hour. They came out golden brown and hot all the way through! Reheated pizza- crispy crust and delicious (MW pizza is terrible). My latest trick- reheated popovers that taste like they just popped out of the oven.
    I have the wolf e series oven and the ge monogram. I just figured out how to turn off the display on the monogram.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I would agree that with this high end kitchen you should look at speed ovens. Especially with little kids loving chicken nuggets and quick meals like chicken potpies, jamaican patties. That's what we use it the most for. And potatoes and heating up frozen baguettes. Also quesadillas. Much better than microwave cooking alone.

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    We don't eat fast food and still find plenty of use for it. I baked giant potatoes - 2 of them in 9 minutes flat - they looked and tasted baked vs nuked...

    Here is a picture of our ovens - note how they coordinate - and now I turned off the display, it is even better(display on for this picture). The L series would even look better!

    The advantium is recommended at counter height and above as it does blow air into the kitchen. I have read some did put below the counter...

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks for the great responses--

    a2gemini: the steam oven (either wolf or gagg) is combi-steam convection, so we are covered on extra convection there, and can brown things too. very excited about this oven!!! most of the things we reheat (meats & rice mainly) will likely work better there, i think, as long as we allow for the extra time, but we usually do them on our cooktop now, so shouldn't be too much different. not usually any leftover pizza here ;) lol

    wekick: I will pick up that book ASAP--sounds interesting. i'm currently using all-clad copper core with a couple cephalon non-stick pans in the mix and a cephalon overlay griddle. not a huge fan of using the overlay griddle, and we lament not choosing the integrated griddle & 5th burner option (too much $$ at the time) on our current range. that is a neat option to fly out to try cc and wish we could take advantage of the offer. i fear i will be too far along in my pregnancy (currently 5 mos plus a toddler in tow) for that to work. we are lucky that our local plass appliance does have a CC range on the floor. it's the pro with sealed burners vs. the restaurant model with open burners, but it's the only one around for miles! i've seen the cleaning video before, but haven't seen the discussions on customer service/corporate apathy. do you have a link to that, or suggestion of search terms by any chance? we also have a cheaper GE micro right now, and haven't had a problem with it at all. decision here may well end up being more design-based, and liking the under-cabinet idea so it'll be easier for children to reach and "self-serve" snacks. it is def going right next to the frig :)

    weedmeister: we went that route on a cheaper micro in our past kitchen remodel and have no regrets. thanks for being budget-minded. will look into makeupair hood option. we are planning the hood as part of construction, venting with remote blower motor in attic. so glad we realized this option on the front end!

    deeageaux: we saw the miele DW with the built in softener yesterday on our visit to re-visit the CC. looks like a very solid option. field trip next week to a different plass that actually has both the gagg wall oven and steam-combi on display. found out that gagg-thermador-bosch all share a local distributor, about 20mi away, so good news there too. very excited to see in person. sharp micro drawer is retailing about $761.76 on applianceconnection.com so that price does seem to be peanuts compared to the other items. well worth the investment, in my opinion though!

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    a2gemini: I think we cross posted. Thanks for the pic--it does look fab! What model is yours? Children are also not particularly patient when waiting to EAT and chicken nuggets suck in the MW lol. Hmmm now how/where to fit all these amazing appliances lol :)

    thanks for the 2nd opinion Sophie123. am going to look at options!

  • 13 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Flyfighter it is the Advantium monogram 240.
    I need to learn more about these steam ovens - although no room at the inn right now.