I posted new comments about simmer on the Capital v. Wolf thread.
Billy

Here is a link that might be useful: Capital v. Wolf thread

You seem to not be considering Blue Star. I would think you would since simmer is important.

Sayde
For sure I am considering it now - that's what you have correct? How do you find the simmer?

The biggest difference between the CC and the Blue Star as far as burners go, is on the CC they are all the same size, 22k btu---this design was influenced by inputs from folks on the Garden Web. They were asked, which they preferred, (as usual), not total agreement, as we have the "Pan movers" in one camp, and the "I don't wanna move pots/pans" in the other camp---the consensus went with the "Non Movers".

So CC designed, or at least tried, to design a burner that would work all the way from a very low simmer to Full Blast!
So, simmer on such a burner is bound to be a little touchie, at least as far as initial adjustments go.
(How low can ya go with out clicking)?

BS on the other hand, designed a burner just for simmering, alto it can do other things, at least with small pans. This brings up an interesting question. What if you want to simmer on more than one burner? Do you order 2 simmer burners, will that leave you enough regular burners??
I do not recall a single post as to how one of the regular Blue Star burners simmers---maybe that is something we should ask the Blue Star Camp, Ya Thinks???

As you mention simmering is so important to you, and how many pans do you need at the same time simmering, If the regular Blue Star burners can do a good simmer, or you can give up enough regular burners for simmer burners, then I would tend to go with the BS, even thou I'm a big CC fan, as the company is close to where I live and I like to keep the Callies working (LOL).

If "Big heat" means nothing to you, then the Wolf may be the
Safest way to go,albeit maybe the most expensive too.

Anyway I think if you can get some answers to the questions I posed here, You will be well on your way to making the right decision for you.

Good Luck with Same!!!

Gary

See, Gary, you get it. You ask the right questions and get to the point. So much better than the pissing contest that goes back and forth. To your point, of all the residential ranges on the market today, the CC is the one that functions most like a commercial range due to it's burner power and arrangement. Cooks who are adept in the kitchen will have no problems with it. It's not a which is better or best question, which some people insist on. It's a which is right for you question.

jscout,

It's a nice cooktop but we can do without your snotty comment about "cooks who are adept in the kitchen."

Why don't you stick to facts instead of personal attacks?

The fact is I had a large pot of jambalaya (with 13 cups of dry rice in the pot) on the CC cooktop and it boiled over at the lowest simmer. If you think being adept means moving the pot to the side of the burner so the fire is at the edge of the pot you're entitled to your opinion, but I doubt many will share it.

It was not fun to clean up the mess under the CC grates.

I am reporting facts as I experienced them. I'm not a lover or hater of BS or CC and I have no axe to grind. I chose a CC and I'm reporting my experience. That's what I love about GW -- people sharing their personal first-hand experiences on friendly and supportive forums.

I'm very happy with my CC and it's a fantastic cooking machine but I'm not going to tell people that it's perfect and nothing could be improved. I would lose credibility if I did because there is no product that cannot be improved, except mother's milk. ;-)

Billy

Billy, I was not attacking you. I didn't even have you in mind when I wrote that. I'm sorry you took it personally. I was making a generalization. See, in my circle of friends, I teach cooking. My friends come in all types from the timid to the careless to the foodie. Within that group, some are more adept in the kitchen than others. That's just how it is. Not everyone is a natural "chef", just like not everyone burns a pot while boiling water. So in that regard I was stating facts, as in facts of life. Again, I'm sorry if I offended you. Or anyone for that matter. That was not my intent. All I was getting at is that the CC is not for everyone. That's all.

I appreciate Billy's comments. Even though Billy owns a CC, the reports are honest - not fanboy/fangirl craziness. I want to be able to simmer without moving a pot to the side or remember - oh...I need to simmer, where is that damn simmer plate or two or three. I also don't want to spend more time cleaning than I do cooking.

I also appreciate jscout's experience and comments on the CC. He has been very willing to help me with other questions such as CFM and venting.

I am still doing my analysis and for every CC plus/BS negative, there is a BS plus/CC negative.

I don't know who said this but we are fortunate to be able to have a choice and ultimately select the best unit for how we want to and how we do cook.

M

jscout,

I apologize I over-reacted. I try not to do that , especially on forums.

You are correct that Gary's comments were good -- he correctly recounted the history of the CC and its burners, and the tradeoffs with dedicated simmer burners.

Billy

I don't know what size range you are looking for, but the BlueStar RNB in the 30" has 2-22,000 burners a 15,000 burner and a simmer burner. The 15,000 burner will simmer as low as the duel stacked burners of the Wolf etc. The simmer burner will go even lower. Our last range Had a black top like a Wolf, what a PITA to keep clean. Never again. If you are looking for a larger range, Bluestar offers a French top that takes up the space of 4 burners, not for everyone, but may suit your cooking style. Hot in the middle but progeressivly cooler as you move the pot or pan further away. Great for sauces etc. There is a frequent poster here on the forum that has one on a 48" range. I believe it is deeageaux. Maybe you can post "Help On French Top" or "Help Deeageaux" for more info. CC offers self clean and a rotisserie in the oven, not important to me, but I thought I would mention it.

I think Stooxie has the FT on his BS.

I do not recall a single post as to how one of the regular Blue Star burners simmers---maybe that is something we should ask the Blue Star Camp

That's a great point, Dodge! Let me provide my experience there.

The simmer on the 22k BTU BS burner is pretty warm. 96 gas ports versus the simmer burner's 24. If it were my only simmer option I'd say it was too powerful. For example, when I have my griddle going and it's hot enough I put the 22K burner down to low and it's still a tad hot. I need to be pretty vigilant with pancakes on the front half. It will keep a stock pot simmering energetically.

The 15K BTU simmer is better, 64 gas ports, the griddle in said scenario is just the right temp on that side (my griddle pan straddles the 22 and 15 when in use). It will keep a stock pot bubbling at just the right amount.

The simmer burner, with 24 ports, will not keep a stock pot bubbling. Perfect, I can always turn it up. At full tilt I find that simmer burner is very capable. I think it's 8K but it's a nice straight flame to the base of the pan. It's easily more capable than the average 10K BTU sealed burner anyway. Brings a kettle of water to boil with no trouble.

For me it's all about options. If all my burners were the same I don't have as many options. So far I've never felt like I've run out of 22K BTU burners (I've got two), the 15K BTU burner gets used the least frequently but I wouldn't give it up and the simmer burner does exactly that. For anything in between I have the French top.

Hope that helps.

-Stooxie

Thanks for the posts about the simmer on the BS non simmer burners, hopefully that helps the OP here.

I think I know of a way we can help Billy out here.
Do any of you recall seeing the pictures of the CC burner when it was properly adjusted for simmer? As I recall the burner holes were barely lit, and as I recall that was before CC redesigned the burner to do even a lower simmer?

Recall that: "A Picture is worth a thousand words"?

I'm kinda "Bummed out" tonight after getting up at 3AM to go to a car show at 4 AM, but if nobody finds and posts those pictures by tomorrow, I will try to find them.
(Maybe they were on Trevor's Web-site), ya Thinks?

Anyway Cheers, C U all tomorrow!

Gary

Perhaps this is the video Gary is taling about.

Here is a link that might be useful: CC Burner Video

I've used a couple of simmer plates and they help a little but not enough.

I just ordered a couple of "flame tamers" like my momma had long ago and I'll see how they work. See link below.

Billy

Here is a link that might be useful:

Signing off as well but wanted to thank everyone for their contributions... Very informative and helpful thread

OK, as promised, Here are some links to what a Capital Culinarian burner looks like on simmer. Also some links here on temperature claims and actual temps.
HTH's

http://blog.warnersstellian.com/category/cooking/

http://www.my-home-garden.com/home-improvement-news/capital-range-capital-culinarian

"Capital wisely gave each burner 23,000 BTUs of power AND
the ability to simmer at an incredibly low 140 degrees F."

(I see claims, all over the net that the simmer temp is anywhere from 138F to 145F)

"But just as importantly, they offer absolutely precise fine-tuning, with every burner also boasting true simmering functionality, down to 138 degrees � low enough for the most delicate sauces, and low enough to melt chocolate directly in the pan, without a double boiler."

http://www.emercedesbenz.com/lifestyle/home/capital-

culinarian-range/

http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/appl/msg0312565620415.html

On one of thes sites you will see where a poster used an 11 inch pan, waited 6 minutes and got a temp of 91C (195 F),
We see another post about an "All night Accidental Simmer" of 175 F, on a CC.

Some of you may recall the simmer contest Mojavean and I had? My Elux Icon Induction Cooktpop got "Clobbered" by his
Blue Star Simmer Burner, I did 119F (for at least an hour)
He did 112F for the same time period.

Draw your own conclusions about these posts and the results of the contest between Mojavean and I.

Gary

I have a 6 burner CC Range Top and love it. We cook a lot of rice without issue on the simmer. I have even made 2 cups of pudding with no issue on the simmer. Its a great unit.

Capital is also good at getting things taken care of is there is an issue. It is a pleasure to have any burner at full high power or on a low simmer (regardless of what people want to call a simmer).

Here is a video I made of my burners. Includes the simmer.

Bluestar RNB burners

-Stooxie

Nice Video stooxie!

But~~~~~~ That Blue Star was cleaner than my induction cooktop (Before I made that messy breakfast of Sausage, potatoes and eggs) (LOL).

Tell ya what!!!!! I'll be over, "Straightaway" and cook up some CHICKEN CACCIATORE and then you do a "Cleanup Video" OK?

Just kidding, thanks for the video!

Gary

I know, I wasn't going let a big cauldron of milk boil over for the purposes of GW! :) We'll leave that for the people who get paid to do this.

Basic premise was just to show that there are very few parts to clean.

-Stooxie

WOAH, my mistake people-- I pasted in the wrong video.

Sigh, I wasn't trying to post a cleaning video for the sake of doing so. That was for another thread.

Meant to post this one. (Too bad we can't modify our own posts).

http://youtu.be/MZdZxyOUX58

The temperatures Gary and I were achieving were obtained using a large vessel with a gallon of water. The only reason we did it that way is because it was all part of the same test. We had run a race to see who could bring a gallon of water up to a boil the fastest (Gary won handily) and we wanted the same parameters in place to test for the lowest operational heat rise on simmer. I think a more fitting test of simmer would be a smaller sauce pan with a delicate recipe of some sort -- some fancy sauce nobody can pronounce -- testing for both end temp AND saucy goodness. Break the sauce, nobody cares what the temp is. Preserve the sauce, nobody cares what the temp is either.

The question is can you hold a dish without burning it. I have verified that the simmer on our BS will hold a dish at serving temp without burning it, AND, if turned up a notch or two, will maintain either a simmer or slow rolling boil, depending on how much heat you apply. The simmer burner on the BS is great, you can move something to the back burner and not have to worry about it.

I know the CC simmer topic has been all over the place. I've commented about it as others have. Trevor has done a video of it and for some reason some people like to discredit it because he's a salesman. So, in the interest of serving the community with some real user experience here are a few videos.

Billy, in this case I am thinking of you and I hope that maybe you can use it as a reference to compare your simmer and what it looks like.

Disclaimer: This is not a scientific experiment. I have no intentions of adhering to any scientific protocols. Everything I present here is purely anecdotal so take it for what it's worth. I will say that there was absolutely no editing done. I shot it with my iPhone and posted it. That's it.

Video of a small pot simmering that I captured and uploaded last week and was going to post before I decided to pretend to be a scientist and try it again. Well, I fell asleep on that experiment and didn't record it. But this video is at least consistent with what I described in that other thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYyhnv4pmN0

Video I did this morning of a larger pot simmering. I roasted some pork bones and was simmering it for a simple stock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFadqOQXVKM

Finally simple video of the same burner on simmer, naked. You will hear the click of the igniter as I moved closer to it creating a draft. Billy, let us know if you simmer looks anything like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1T6qElXGjE

jscout,

Thank you for posting these videos -- I really appreciate it!

On my burners it looks like the flames are little higher than yours, but not by much.

After watching your videos I tried the boiling water test using a 2 quart pot and then using an 11 inch wide stockpot, both with 2-3 inches of water in them.

I got similar results to you with the 2 quart pot but I had a little more activity with the larger pot that covers much of the grate. Even then I got bubbles forming on the bottom but no heavy boiling. With both I got a good amount of steam.

I noticed some of my burners are hotter than the others. Probably they need to be adjusted down. Maybe the ignitors need to be re-positioned as well?

For my tests I did not have the vent fan running. I wonder if I need to keep the simmer higher with the vent fan on because the draft is blowing out the flame at lower simmer?

I spoke with the factory today and someone will probably be out this week. I should have done that before saying anything here.

I'm trying to figure out why the large pots boiled over. I had other pots on the cooktop and maybe the sides of the pots were being heated by the other burners?

I'll let you know how the service adjustment goes.

Again, thanks for posting your videos.

Billy

I have a right front 15K burner on my Bluestar. First off, I love that location. Second, I have it adjusted very low so it is almost like the back simmer burner. If I'm making a white sauce, or a single portion of oatmeal, it works great.

jscout and others,

Yesterday a service person came out to adjust the simmer on my CC. The previous service person couldn't do it an decided it was a regulator problem. He said the next service call would involve two people so they could lift out the rangetop and get to the regulator.

So when one service person showed up yesterday I said "Whatsup? I thought two guys were coming?" He said they decided it couldn't be a regulator problem so the company picked him as the "older more experienced guy" to come out and adjust the simmer.

He did a good job and adjusted all of the burners to a low simmer so they don't click at the lowest setting (with no breeze).

Interestingly, he and the previous service guy did not have the right screwdriver to do the adjustment. Instead they borrowed mine. It has a 3/32 inch blade. After watching him I now understand how to do the adjustments myself.

Overall I'm pretty pleased. The simmer on the CC is definitely hotter than I expected but it's worth it for the high heat capability.

Thanks, everyone, for your comments and advice on this issue. The simmer adjustment should have been done when the rangetop was installed, but it wasn't. BTW I asked him how he likes the Capital cooktops and he said he likes them (and the ranges too). I asked him about Bluestar and he said he hates working on them. Then he clarified and said the burners are fine but the ovens have lots of problems with the doors and bearings and hinges and alignment. As far as the burners he said the only complaints he gets are some people don't like the Bluestar simmer burners because they don't get hot enough. :-) So there you go!

Billy

Billy, glad to hear everything is working out for you. I think your observations are spot on. I also think the service tech's assessment sounds reliable. I think the misunderstanding over the CC's simmering is over the definition of the the term simmer. The classic definition is it has to be above 190 defrees. But home cooks tend to have a different perception. Their expectations go lower into what is also known as warming and poaching.

Mamadadapaige, what did you decide to get?

As far as the burners he said the only complaints he gets are some people don't like the Bluestar simmer burners because they don't get hot enough

Hi Billy, I totally appreciate that you are just relaying what these guys said and not trying to one up anyone. Glad you were able to get some good adjustments on your range!

I just have to say, though, that this is yet another fascinating statement from your repair guys :-)

Honestly, the simmer burner at full tilt (still like 8000 BTU or something like that on the BS) is "not hot enough?" I guess some people won't be happy with anything!

-Stooxie

And here we go again....one tech, one view. I'd bet for every tech that rags on a BS, there is a tech that rags on a CC. Whatever!

But I am glad to find out that after 25 years of cooking what I thought was simmering is really warming or poaching. Who knew?? In my next life I am going to culinary school.

;-)

Sounds like they sent out a couple of unemployed circus clowns. First's tech can't even adjust a freakin simmer? And you are going to trust his word? And his diagnosis of the regulator sounded pretty fishy to me, and I'm not very qualified in the area of appliance repair.

Next guy shows up to as the older more experienced guy, cause adjusting simmer burners should be left for only those with 25+ years experience we all know that. This is a big job, he needs to bring one tool....**ONE** tool (besides himself) to the job and he doesn't bring the right one?!?!?!?!? Why would you even ask clowns like this what think think of your range (cooktop) or any other? And as for the second guys comments about bearings and alignment? Really? What bearings? Never heard of alignment issues on here? Stuck doors, yes. And for people complaining about the simmer burner not being hot enough? Really? That certainly does not reflect what I have read on here over the past 4-5 years. I have heard the complete opposite on here where people are surprised as to how well it works as a high heat burner for small diameter pots, which the CC does not work well with.

"which the CC does not work well with"

That's not true. You're not supposed to crank the burner to high for a small diameter pot. Just turn the flame to as high as necessary so that the flames don't lick up the side of the pot. For the sake of simplicity, let's say the gas level is linear. At medium, you'd probably have enough flame for the bottom of a small pot and get 11K BTU.

I'm sure I'm not alone, but I never use the burner on high on a small pot and it boils very quickly. I'm guessing that the larger burner on the BS would function the same way since that's how a Garland with even higher BTU works.

I totally understand what you are saying jscout. However, what I mean is even at low heat on a large btu/diameter burner, on a small diameter pot you are going to get much hotter sides of the pot and a hotter handle than on the simmer burner cranked. I guess the "efficiency" of the smaller burner would probably be higher. Does it matter? To many people, probably not. To some others it may.

@Michelle - Or watch way too much Food Network. :)

@tyguy - For what it's worth, since I know how much you like to measure things, I just measured my smallest pan and it has a diameter of just over 6". The CC burner from hole-to-hole is 4.75" and edge-to-edge is 5.25". I'd venture to say that unless someone cooks frequently with pans that are all less than 5.5" inches, efficiency is a non-issue.

I also measured my daughter's Melissa & Doug pots and the smallest is 4.5". It looks like she will have an issue trying to use her cookware on the CC...not to mention that her cookware set it made of wood. But that's a story for another thread.

tvguy,

The guy should have the right screwdriver, but I understand. I thought I had every screwdriver, a complete set of square drive and a set of Torx drive, right angle ratchet, eyeglasses screwdrivers, plastic screwdrivers for tuning inductors, but I didn't have one that fit the CC so I had to go out and buy one.

I'm just reporting what he said -- and in contrast to almost everyone here he has worked on both -- I didn't pay him to say bad or good things about any product. I didn't completely understand what he was telling me about the Bluestar bearings but it had something to do with a manufacturing or assembly defect where the bearings were captured behind a nut or screwhead when they should have been in front of it.

I'm kind of surprised you have so much emotion tied up in this that you think the appliance guys are clowns or making up stories. Of course I don't believe everything I hear but they don't have ay reason to make this up. The distributor they work for sells both Bluestar and CC so they work on both. Personally I think they're both fine cooktops. As for the ovens I have no opinion.

Billy

Jscout: yes I do like to measure as I think that is more accurate than pulling numbers out of thin air like some people do on here (you are not one of them). But back to the efficiency thing; your smallest pot is larger in diameter than my smallest pot, and probably larger than many peoples smallest pot. And ok, so your smallest pot is barely larger in diameter than the diameter of your cc burner (even hole to hole) but when the flames hit the bottom of the vessel it spreads out towards the outside, I imagine going towards the oxygen. I still would think that a bs simmer burner will be more efficient on vessels smaller than 6" in diameter. It really isn't a big deal tho. Other uses I find the small burner good for is turning a mug upside down and pre heating it before an espresso, or americano. What if you have a small moka pot? Surely it must be admitted that the bs simmer will be better for that?

Billy: are you seriously going to defend these guys? The first "tech" can not even adjust the simmer? He is then so dumb founded he misdiagnoses the regulator. Next "experienced" guy who needs only ONE tool and doesn't bring it? Do you know 100% for certain that they have in fact worked on a bs and or cc? I have my doubts. Let's face it these ranges are not in every kitchen. And if they have worked on these ranges, then shame on them because you can not really get an easier service call than adjusting a simmer burner. Are you going to deny that? Its about credibility. And when these clowns can not adjust a simmer, they are just that, clowns. As for "they worked on both of them" and I have not, well....I was in the general contracting business for years. I met a lot of contractors and sub contractors and a lot of diy'ers. There were times that the diy'ers were better and more educated than the contractors. For example I have met countless tile contractors that think that a "scratch coat" is all you need to put under your tiles with no regard to the rate of deflection or other rules/reccommendations of the tca. Just look up tile scratch coat and see how good it is. Just a hint, it is about as good as it sounds. If you can not adjust a simmer burner, or don't bring the ONLY tool you need then I don't know what to say, other than those are the scratch coat guys of appliance tech world. Those are the clowns I would not hire. I know I wouldn't have got a lot of repeat business if I performed like that. I know you are only passing along information, but the information is worthless (imo). I don't even think I would have passed it along considering the source. And you are smart enough to realize that Its bound to start something. Possibly he thinks the bs is "harder to work on" because he doesn't know what tools to bring or use? I know I am not the only one that finds it slightly ironic that it took a) yourself, b) an appliance "tech", c) an "experienced tech" and d) your tool to ADJUST THE SIMMER?

Has anyone here heard that a bs is hard to work on? I havnt. Has anyone heard that its a common complaint that the simmer burner isn't hot enough? I havnt. Has anyone heard of issues with some sort of bearing? I havnt. (Well I have heard complaints about the bearings on the cc's roller racks). Has anyone heard of issues with misaligned doors? I havnt. Anyone think these techs know what they are talking about? I don't. Do you think if a bs person posted the same thing from as obviosuly not very skilled "techs" that the cc people wouldn't be all over it?

I also want to state, AGAIN, that I believe that the CC burner is a slightly better burner design than the bs at high output. I have said that previously on public record, please feel free to do a search on this forum if you do not believe me. I will admit where the cc is stronger than the bs, but there are a few cc owners here that absolutely will not admit to the ranges short commings or where it comes in behind the bs. The simmer and efficiency of heating small diameter pots is a bs advantage. Even trevor lawson admits to the simmer advantage. Go ahead and ask me...in fact I will list a few here:�

Bs advantages:

+Lower simmer when equipped with a simmer or 15k burner
+more efficient for small diameter pots
+burner options, mix and match sizes or choose all the same
+larger oven capacity
+better customer service NOW DAYS (surjit has yelled at more than one customer, just do a google search)
+can clean under range
+better looking (very personal)
+easier to clean stove top (very arguable)
+available french top (not something I'm interested in but some are)
+available raised broiler/salamander
+better rack placement (from what I have gathered on this forum)

CC advantages:

+better high heat performance
+available rotisserie (I'd love that)
+lower outside temps
+two piece burner
+available self clean
+both ovens have windows (48")
+unique looking (could also be disadvantage)

Does the above sound fair so far? Go ahead and ask me if you think I have left out an area. I too think both are fine ranges, I never once said otherwise. Billy, I apologize, I am not ragging on you personally, but there is a lot of mis information, misrepresentations and un truths about bs that circulate on here since the cc has come around and I think some of the info your techs gave fall into at least one of those catagories.

Firstly both BS and CC use independent service companies, some of these companies have never seen either range, some have worked on both ranges, both ranges are easy to fix due the simplicity. Not to be able to adjust a simmer burner is crazy both BS and CC have the same system. Not to bring a fricking screw driver is in excusable by any service company in any field of business. Both BS and CC do the same thing when it comes to service companies they weed out the bad ones often after its to late for at least one customer (if they get to find out what happened in the customers home), I have reported bad service companies to both BS and CC in the past and had them removed from the service providers list.

Service guys say some of the stupidest things, I had a major problem with a customer in CO where the service guy said really really bad things about the BS range he was working on to the customer, the end result BS had to replace the range at no cost including taking the old one out and installing the new one.

What service guys say should be taken or left alone much the same with GW posts.

Tyguy.... As for your list of advantages, two points I would disagree directly. As you say some of the other points are up for discussion or personal choice or are very clear cut..

BS Adv ....Point 2 .... The angle the holes are drilled on the burner head guide the flame / heat to the center of small pans so not sure BS has better efficiency still a tough call.

BS Adv.... Point 5 that's also a tough call both companies still screw up on service calls, I still have some of my old BS customers calling me asking for help, BUT BS has improved with the influx of new people and the introduction of the CC. As for Surjit's yelling, He was an ass in the way he dealt with that customer in public no doubt about that, I am sure we have all posted on this website and wished we could take it back, but once its up its up FOREVER.....

tvguy,

It is funny you are calling the service guys clowns. Opinions are like... everybody has one.

I saw the second guy's tool bag and tools and I could tell he was a pro. I used to be a carpenter and you get a pretty good feel in short order whether someone in the trades has been around the block. I can also say that sometimes I showed up on a job and found out I didn't have the right tool. I'm sure that has happened to everyone.

It may be that CC monitored this thread and told the service company to put an experienced tech on this even though it was just a simmer adjustment. If so, thank you CC. The simmer is still higher than I would like but I'm OK with it.

Billy

>As for Surjit's yelling, He was an ass in the way he dealt with that customer in public no doubt about that, I am sure we have all posted on this website and wished we could take it back, but once its up its up FOREVER.....

Unfortunately he has apparently yelled at his customers more than once. I was doing a google search on a topic unrelated and came across a post where he apparently "yelled" at the customer and hung up. I do believe that post to be reliable as well, because he spouted off the exact same stuff about how a company has a right to make improvements blah bah. At any rate, I do think that customer service at capital is very good, however, it also appears as tho BS may have upped the ante a notch. (just my opinion from posts on gardenweb over past year or so).

oh ya, I also forgot one CC advantage:

+Having Trevor

Personally I think some people could benefit from anger management therapy. Really, folks, these are just APPLIANCES!

Well, that was an enjoyable read...

Just for the record as I've been vocal about my CC simmering complaints lately, my machine has been in service maybe 6 months? (can't remember, believe it or not) and I was vocal about my problems at first, then just went away and haven't been hanging around this forum for months. I was hoping the simmer-thing would get worked out in my absence and I could swoop back in and just find it all taken care of.

So I missed this and probably dozens of other threads. Including the one/s where Kalsi yells at a customer. I tell you - this stuff is so _Drama_. My teenaged girls could really get some good pointers here.

Onward. jscout - your videos of simmering are really helpful. Simmering on my CC looks nothing like that. Simmering on my CC looks like the boiling water you started with. Moreover though I'm having a little trouble distinguishing high-looking simmer burner jets, I do think your simmer jets simply *look* like they're set lower than mine.

So - again I pledge to go get a screw driver and try to get my machine looking like yours. However again I note that Capital did do this, nominally, once already. So I'm wondering whether there is any other, 'foundational' setting, so to speak, upstream as it were, from the screw-driver set that could affect gas flow. Is there a constriction point *before* the screwdriver-reachable one at the knobs?

Also, there was a mention about the ventilation fan -- is it possible that the draw could be so great as to essentially pull out more gas, causing greater and hotter combustion? Someone else suggested this.

Tyguy -- I love your ultimate reason for preferring CC (+Trevor)

Thanks jscout and stooxie for the videos! Very insightful. The simmer jscout gets is fine with me. Of course the temperature will be higher than what stooxie gets on his simmer burner. Having the possibility to go lower can't be a bad thing, so it is a plus for the BS. Over all, I like the CC better (from what I read and saw on the net only) for the whole package (I was in the clan of pan non movers), but the simmer "issue" (if there is one) is making me reconsider things a bit before I buy.

What alaris19 describes is way too hot to be considered as a simmer. If I bought a CC and got that result, I wouldn't be happy.

I saw the survey aliris19 as up at
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/LV9RRSY

I think one question is missing.... Are you using propane or natural gas? Typically, the rating of burner goes down in BTU when using propane. Is it true for the upper and lower value of a burner? If so, could it partly explain why some are able to simmer and others have burners being too hot? Is jscout using propane and aliris19 natural gas?

La Maudite--Aliris and I are both on natural gas and both have a simmer that's too high. I think Jscout is also, but I could be mistaken.

Including a question about the fuel type seems like a good idea.

I'll try to add it... seems to be included now.

If you already completed the survey but wish to include that fuel information, you can complete a form with just that one question filled (it's now #2) -- it won't be linked to the rest of your responses but will at least give an overall total. If you like you can leave a comment that links you with the rest of your responses, via email if you left it, or your other answers if you like. I'm presuming I can edit/clean the data to make it all hook up.

Some perspective. Everybody take a deep breath. "They're just appliances," as willoughby said, not insults about your mother!

This is re: jscout's comment about CC being more like a commercial range, but applies to the whole thread in general. I have not used a commercial range, but I've read posts by people who comment that they heat EXTREMELY well but can't simmer well at ALL. I imagine anything that has higher total BTUs will have a higher simmer as well, and in that sense, CC IS more like a commercial range than BS, though it is capable of a very credible simmer, at least from the videos I've seen (when adjusted properly). And like a commercial range, it requires more care at simmer than the BS.

Needless to say, it sounds like CC owners who still get a rolling boil on simmer should have their burner adjusted, since it is clearly capable of better.

But even at its best, CC burners will never keep things at slightly over body temperature (212F is boiling, so 112F isn't cooking, it's not even keeping warm very well!). I don't know if I will EVER need to do that, so I'm getting a CC (also, the 60" CC range will fit a full sheet 18 x 26" pan). For those who truly need to do that often, clearly BS is right for you. And for those who have either BS or CC, STOP FIGHTING! You BOTH have AWESOME gas cooking appliances and the BS vs CC arguments amount to splitting hairs.

Incidentally, reintroducing your tasting spoon into the pot and then keeping it lukewarm for too long (yes, I'm talking to you BS 112F simmerers) will speed spoiling, as lukewarm temperatures promote bacterial growth. So pristine infection control is even more important at well-below boil simmer.

David

I'm considering a 36" rangetop purchase, maybe with the grill. Does anyone simmer a pot on the grill (or griddle). Just wondering if you can get lower heat that way.

Man, so much reading and catching up to do. I run on LP, so that might have something to do with it. But it is my understanding that with the CC there is no drop off because it's configured at the factory to be the same BTU as NG, unlike field converted appliances where you would see a drop off.

@davidahn - Good points.

3waller, I just did a little experiment on my grill. I turned it to low and let it preheat for 30 minutes. Then I measured the surface temps with a grill surface thermometer. I looked for the hottest spot and coolest spot on the grill. The hottest was the front half at 250 degrees. The coolest was way in the back just above 200 degrees. You can probably guess based on those temps what the results will be.

I took a small pot of water and brought it to a boil. I then I then took it off the heat long enough for the boiling to stop. I then place it over the hottest part of the grill and left it for 10 minutes. I came back to find a very slow boil. Measuring the water temp showed the water just around the boiling point. I then moved the pot over to the coolest side and left it for 10 minutes. I checked it and there was no activity in the pot. The water temp was 190 degrees, putting it just below a simmer.

I don't know if the griddle will work, but I do know that a griddle pan over two burners will work. While I haven't really simmered that way, I have melted butter that way. Since I don't have a problem simmering, I'm probably not a good gauge of that test. Even if the simmer was too high, the area in the griddle pan between the two burners could be much cooler and will likely work.