Was the original intent for the cabinet to go from wall-to-wall?

Usually, if a customer pays for design work, the design is the customers. You can then have whomever you choose build the cabinets...or just walk away, plans in hand and a few dollars out of pocket.

What does your contract state? There's usually a design protocol in there, and for the life of me I couldn't imagine building custom cabinets without the owner signing off on the drawings.

Do you have a receipt for the cabinets? Any identifiers? Are there any markings on the cabinets? Stock numbers, etc. Do you know who built the cabinets?

You paid for these up front without seeing a measured drawing to show what they would look like?

And no, I've never used filler strips in custom cabinetry.

Mongo

Thank you for answering Mongo.I read this site often and see you have wise advice for all problems.

Yes, we signed a contract to do the entire bath and had to pay half for deposit. We liked the artist rendering and we were to get the plan to scale when he returned from trip in 3 weeks. He wanted to order the Cabico cabinets immediately so they would be here to start project in one month.

He said he had measured for the cabinets and that we would get a drawing to scale when he returned. We had paid $500 for him to come to our house and design plan.

The contract said we had options and would decide final details later. The designer ordered everything (faucets, cabinet knobs,etc) the day after he met with us, then left the country for 3 weeks. He said nothing could be returned and we have been in disagreement ever since.

When I asked who the plumber was going to be I was told it was "none of my business". The next day the manager said I was a difficult customer and they wanted to cancel the contract.

We agreed to keep the cabinets and they were to return $11,000 to us. We assumed the cabinets would be okay.

The cabinets are separate box units and are 21", 15" drawer section in center, another 21" unit then a 15" storage type cabinet (90" height). There was available space to have given us 24" sink cabinets. I think he realized that left only 10 1/2 inches from center of sink to side of tall cabinet. Code is 15". That is where one of the 3" fillers is to go. I don't know about the other.

They have our money so we are stuck with the cabinets. Do you think there is a way to make them acceptable? 57" vanity is too small isn't it? Would it look odd to have a single sink and have it above the 15" drawer unit?

The kitchen & bath design company is a well-respected, high-end store in NC. That is why I trusted them. Mistake.
I also don't like that we have to screw the cabinets together and will have a gap between them. Is this normal for custom cabinets? I assumed they would have three of cabinets in one dresser type unit.

We don't know what to do to make the cabinets acceptable. We can't just order more cabinets as these are $4500. Is this worth small court claim Or should we just learn our lesson and have fillers here and there?

Did you pay using a credit card? It might be possible to call the CC company and dispute the charges. Amex is especially good about this. It will be helpful to have documentation stating exactly what you agreed to when making the purchase.

I wouldn't give up $4500 without a fight.

Thanks, chicago. and I think you are right. It will take months to fight this with the company (we have already been in this mess for 7 months) but I can't see having the 58" vanity in a large bathroom. I think we will go ahead and finish the bathroom except for the cabinets. We have been looking forward to the shower, bath, etc. and it will be months before we can order new cabinets. I was thinking we would order the center drawer unit as 18" drawers instead of 15". This would at least give us 60" of counter space. Then I would only have to use one filler. There would still only be 2" to the end of the vanity from the sinks.

It certainly sounds like you received "stock" cabinets instead of "custom cabinets.

Stock cabinets are produced in increments of 3", thus your 21", 15", and 3" fillers.

These cabinets are pre-finished? Go on the Cabico website and see if you can find your finish.

Regardless of that, your "design" is no design at all. It's non-functional. Not only does it not fit the space, but it's not code-compliant.

Your plan has 21, 15, 21, 15, and 7" of space? So from wall-to-wall you have 79"?

If these are stock cabinets...then my first option would be to call Cabico customer service and explain the situation. See if you can swap what you have for what will work, or what will be better.

Right now you can increase the 21" cabinets to 24". You could use the filler strip (which can be cut down, it doesn't have to remain at the full 3" width") to give you added sink-to-wall clearance. If you're still stuck you have the option of knocking the closet down to 12"...or the center drawer stack down to 12"...and running from there to make things work. Or ditch the closet totally? Just think through the options...what can you do to make any or all or your current cabinets work, and if you can't, if you can swap out your cabinets for others, what do you need to get a workable and code-compliant design.

It really depends on if you can swap out cabinets.

If you get nowhere with Cabico or if Cabico says you have to go through the store, then go back to the store and speak with a manager/supervisor. You paid a design fee and you were given a non code-compliant design. If there's no resolve through the store, escalate. If the store is a chain, go up the corporate hierarchy. Be pleasant, but firm. Unemotional, just businesslike.

Your case is that you paid for them to design a bathroom with custom cabinetry. They designed, they spec'd materials, they ordered materials, they handled everything...and in return you received possible stock cabinets and a design that does not comply with building code.

Because your materials will result in a non-compliant bathroom, you can't find a builder or contractor to install the bathroom. You're stuck.

If you get nowhere with them, then you can pursue legal action or call a local news team, an investigative reporter type that does consumer affairs issues, or acts as an ombudsman.

Anything you can do to leverage your position.

Cabinet companies usually have Spring promotions, maybe Cabico will offer replacements at a discount.

Depends.

I hate to advise people to "lawyer up", but if you have a legal friend who can look at the contract, or if you can take your contract in to a lawyer for a free 30-minute consult to see if you have a case, that might help.

Just knowing that you have legal leverage might be enough to get Cabico or the design store to flex a bit.

If it helps, there are generally three levels of cabinets: Custom, semi-custom, and stock.

Custom is built just for you. You need a cabinet that is 57-13/64ths inches wide to ft your space, that's what you get.

Semi-custom is taking stock cabinets and altering them a bit. The altering is usually in terms of an "option" offered at the factory where the cabinets are built.

Stock is generic factory-built sizes. They can be low-end or ultra expensive, but they come in standard widths, usually from 9" wide to 48" wide in 3" increments. 3" filler strips are provided, the filler strips can be cut down and/or scribed to the wall to give a finished look.

Sorry for your troubles. Things shouldn't be this difficult.

Thank you. I didn't think this met code from what I could tell.We talked to a lawyer today and he said it would be expensive to have a lawsuit and suggested small claims court. All the cabinet makers I have talked to said we need 24" for the sinks so I am glad to have that confirmation.

The cabinets we bought were supposed to be 5% off for special sale and 17% off for plywood upgrade. The plywood upgrade has made the cabinets so heavy that we are going to have to reinforce the floor. I guess the weight is why they put the three vanity units separately and which will leave gap between units.

The K&B store said I was not due a design with any measurements. (Not what they said orally). They said I was only due a 20/20 rendering. Do you know what that is?

I am going to try small claims court and let our bathroom sit for another few months. It's already been 7. I am also going to report them to the NC Attorney General for consumer fraud.

I presume that the "20/20 rendering" is referencing a cabinet design software package from 20-20 Design. A "rendering" is just a basic printout of what a supposed design could look like. A rough draft so to speak.

How can they pawn off STOCK cabinets as custom?

Still, it doesn't matter what type of drawing they gave you. It's the installation that counts. And the package to install is stock cabinetry, and it's not code-compliant.

Sure, filler strips can pad a 21" cabinet out to 24" wide, but the new design restricts your sink size should you want the sink centered on the cabinet. And it's not symmetrical on the front face frame.

I can't see plywood making the cabinets so heavy that the floor would need reinforcement. I make all my cabinet carcasses out of 3/4" plywood. Ply is lighter than MDF and lighter than particleboard.

Do they have a rebuttle for not meeting code?

My order said that the cabinets are Maple, Furniture Board Boxes, white melamine interiors, hard maple dovetail and framed full overlay. Maybe it isn't plywood. I thought that the reason the three cabinets weren't together in a frame was because they were so heavy. I didn't think we would have to screw them together. I may have reinforcement of the floor in my head because the air tub was going to need it and the limestone floor was too.

I went by the store to ask why 7" of available cabinet space wasn't used and why were there two 3" fillers. 63" countertop and 24" base cabinets would have made a big difference. She said that is what we ordered although our "20/20 rendering" had no measurements and fillers weren't included. She said the cabinets were "ours" and we could do with them what we wanted. A few days later she called and said they would give me the original diagram of the cabinets. It had the filler and was dated one week before we even talked to them.

We would not have included the tall storage unit if we had known our vanity top would be so narrow.

Our mistake was that we trusted the people and relied on their reputation. The bath designer was the initial contact that ordered EVERYTHING without us choosing anything except we agreed to the custom cabinets. The manager came into it after we started having trouble.
They required a deposit of $19,000 which was to be half of our cost. We finally got them to agree to give us back $12,000 if we would take some of the items they couldn't return. They were the ones who initially wanted to cancel the contract. After I asked the name of the plumber they were going to use they told me I was a difficult customer and didn't want to work with me.

I was told it was "none of my business" on two separate occasions. They were to return our partial deposit in early December but we finally got it in early Feb. I stopped by a few times to pick up the promised check and was told not to come back to the store again.

Thanks for listening to my problems. It has helped me to vent! You're so nice to help everyone on this site. Are you retired?

I want you to realize that you did not get custom cabinets. Your cabinets are stock cabinets, mass-produced, and are designed to be screwed together.

Melamine? Melamine is inexpensive, its plastic veneer is easy to clean, and that's why it's often used. For its low-maintenance and ease-of-cleaning. But in no way would melamine be considered a "high end" material. I have never, ever used melamine in upper-level custom cabinetry.

For stain-grade cabinets, "custom cabinetry" usually infers species-grade stained plywood for the cabinet boxes, and same-species wood used for the doors and face frames. Or for fine painted cabinets, I'll use birch or poplar plywood for the boxes and poplar for the face frames.

Someone wants cheap cabinets for basement of garage storage? Melamine to the rescue. And melamine is quite heavy. Still not heavy enough to require floor reinforcement, but melamine usually has a core that is quite dense/heavy.

Now this company might indeed make very pretty cabinets. And they may be well-made. And they may make these "stock cabinets" to order, meaning they don't make them ahead of time, only when an order comes in. But they are still stock cabinets.

Good luck getting this resolved.

No I'm not retired. I just check n here once in a while trying to help folk like you put out fires.

Thanks for all that info about custom cabinets. The designer said that they were high-end custom cabinets created for my space. . I assumed incorrectly that was true. They are assembled in Canada.

We are usually DIY and this is the last project in our home. My husband thought it would be wonderful to have someone come in and take care of everything!

I will let you know what happens. Your info and advice has helped us alot.

This is such a terrible situation, I feel for you.

I also worked with a bad outfit when I did my kitchen reno. They left me with a nonworking kitchen that failed mechanical and electrical inspections. What saved me was that I had a permit. I cried my heart out to the local zoning/permit official. He came to the house to look things over. He then applied pressure to the company that was messing up. He told them that if they didn't fix my problems he was going to forbid them from doing any work in our town again. They came and fixed everything (boy, I didn't want them in the house any more but I bit the bullet) and it passed. Without that pressure from my town official, I'd never have gotten a working kitchen. You said your cabs and the kitchen design was not code compliant. Did you get permits? Can you go to your town officials like I did and get them to apply pressure? At the very least it will put people on alert.

I would also not hesitate to take this to a newspaper or local consumer reporter.

BTW, don't know if I could do this but I heard about a situation where a man stood on the sidewalk in front of a store that did him wrong giving out $5 bills to anyone who seemed to be coming to visit that store. He gave them the money to NOT go into the store and told them the trouble he'd had with the store. Apparently the sidewalk is public property so you can stand out there. He turned off so many prospective customers the store finally had to pay attention to him.

One last thing, some certification organizations have a complaint process. If your designer shop is showing off a kitchen and bath design association membership of some type to prove their professionalism, check with that organization. The organizations have codes of ethics that members are supposed to adhere to. Ultimately, you may be able to have your design company stripped of that credential.

Many companies will push you aside until you take some action that will hurt them in the pocketbook. Right now it seems they are simply trying to brush you aside. Make it hard for them to do this!

How do I know about these things? Why my own awful kitchen reno experience! We're doing a bathroom now. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's better. The kitchen has been done for about a year and I still worry that things will break. Oh, and I still find cigarette butts in my shrubbery and mulch from the guys from the crummy company!

Thanks, Judithyn That is a great idea to report them to the NKBA because they are members.

I did go to the head of the company with a 20 page list of problems. He is a part owner but the manager of my store is the owner/manager so she has final say. He agreed my store had done things in an unusual manner and came down to talk to the manager.

All the problems started when we met with the designer for about an hour who presented a plan that we really liked. He was going out of the country for 3 weeks and we said not to worry, we would discuss details when he got back. We had to pay 1/2 deposit which was $19,000 in order to get the cabinets at a sale price. Not very smart but we "knew" they were good. Two days later we got an email that said he had order EVERYTHING for our project and looked forward to putting it together when he returned and he was gone! The project wasn't even supposed to start until two months later.

The contract had listed options to reduce price, etc and we said we would select final selections later. Another sentence said we had approved the prior selections. When the designer returned he said he had ordered tub, faucets, countertop, limestone, lighting, mirrors, cabinet knobs, etc and nothing could be returned. They said we okayed it when we signed the contract.

Thank you for listening if you still are! One thing he ordered, said was delivered and couldn't be returned without a large restocking fee was the counter top for the vanity (58" too small vanity) and tub surround. IT was $11,000 for Ice Stone for a few inches around the tub and vanity. I asked where he got it and he said "none of your business". I checked around town to see who sold it and the store said they had a possible order on it but it had not been placed, no fee to return. So after this all trust was gone.

They actually wanted to cancel the contract after I refused to accept what they had ordered. But they had our deposit so we have been trying to get money back since then. Our lawyer asked if we could accept things they couldn't return if they would return the rest and we agreed. Of course we did not know at that time that the cabinets weren't custom sized. They charged us $120 for 10 cabinet knobs that I know weren't ordered for us. We needed 14, another name was on the box, they were $8 from Restoration Hardware (not a conventional supplier for them) and they had refused for 8 months to even tell me what the knobs looked like. They charged storage, handling fees and padded our cost to allow them to keep around $6000 of things we can't use.

Where are you in NC? Obviously (by my name) I'm in NC, too. I want to know what this company is so I can avoid them.

megatha: I'm so sorry this is happening to you. The company you are dealing with sounds awful.

I'm sure your lawyer has advised you of this, but please document everything with pictures, dates, etc. Conduct all further communication with the company in writing.

Does your local paper have a "Problem Solver" type column? Ours does and it seems to help get resolution to issues by placing public pressure on a vendor/business. You have a very valid reason to complain!