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sweetandrew

Input on Appliance Selection (Liebherr, Wolf, KA)

15 years ago

We're gutting and rebuilding the kitchen in our 1920 Colonial Revival home. I need to provide our architect with our appliance selections ASAP for cabinetry design. Here's what I've chosen for appliances; please let me know if I'm making any grave mistakes!

(1) Refrigerator: Liebherr 36 inch fully integrated (HC-2062). We're a family of 4 but design will only accommodate a 36" fridge, so we're also including in the island:

(2) Beverage fridge: U-line 24" beverage center (1175BEV5-00)

(3) Triple stack: 30" KitchenAid microwave/oven combo (KEMS308SSS) and KitchenAid warming drawer (KEWS105SSS). I believe these are the "Architect Series." Like the handles as they coordinate with the handles on our existing Bosch dishwasher (which we will reuse). Haven't found much in the way of reviews on these models.

(4) Wolf 30" gas cooktop (CT306/S) and Best 36" chimney hood (per architect's rec that hood be larger than cooktop)

I am concerned about some of the issues I've read about here with the Liebherr french doors. Appliance sales guy says they've only sold a few locally but customers have been happy. Also concerned that I haven't found many reviews on the KitchenAid triple stack components.

I don't think I need the 36" Wolf cooktop with 4 burners plus griddle and will be perfectly happy with the 30" Wolf gas cooktop, but it seems like everywhere I look -- friends' new kitchens, shelter mags, showrooms -- it's all about the 36" cooktop or larger. But I hate to pay $2100 more and take up 6" of countertop for something I don't think I really need (i.e. the center griddle)! I'm not terribly concerned about resale but we do live in a market where it would likely be expected to have more than the "basic" 30" Wolf cooktop with 4 burners.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Comments (9)

  • 15 years ago

    If you don't think you need the griddle then don't bother - a 30" cooktop is fine. Use the extra money to get Wolf ovens - KA makes good fridges and DWs, but their ovens have had problems, at least in the recent past.

  • 15 years ago

    Regarding your "triple stack". See if you can locate the warming drawer any other place than low to the floor the way it would be in a triple stack. This topic has been discussed many times on the Kitchens Forum. The conclusion is that location is a make-or-break regarding a warming drawer. If a warming drawer is low to the ground, particularly as the bottom of a "stack", it will not get used, and be a waste of money and an appliance. It's just too low. You might also have to make your MW in the triple stack too high in order to fit the warming drawer at the bottom. The best location for a warming drawer is directly under the counter, next to the oven, or close to the oven. People who have their WD is that location use it all the time.

    Regarding the 30" Wolf gas cooktop - can you make that a 30" rangetop instead? The reason being that a 30" cooktop has cooking space taken up by the knobs. You will have a crowded cooking space and may find it hard to fit your pots properly on it. So, to your comment about why you see only 36" cooktops - it's because people don't like that 30" cooktops are too crowded due to the knobs, and feel they must go to 36" to fit their pots comfortably. You are totally fine in your reasoning to stay with a 30" width, but a better choice is a 30" rangetop which has the knobs across the front, i.e. just like the top of a range, but without the oven part. That way, you have the entire 30" available for the burners and your pots. Other advantages of a rangetop are that you won't have to worry about the knobs getting hot being so close to the flame the way a cooktop's knobs are. You won't have to reach your arm alongside the hot pots on the burners to use the knobs. A rangetop is also a more "professional kitchen" look. The Wolf's red knobs add "wow factor", and you said your market might expect that. It is also easier on your countertop fabricator since he doesn't have to make a cutout for a drop-in cooktop. I'll link the Wolf 30" rangetop below.

    BTW, before you give your go-ahead to your architect for the cabinet order, you should post the layout on the Kitchens Forum. People there are really great about giving advice to improve layout. Unfortunately we have seen architect's plans many times that look pretty, but aren't a very good use of kitchen space.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Wolf SRT304 Rangetop

  • 15 years ago

    Why do you need to get the grill? The 36" Wolf cooktop, all burners, is just under $2K. I can't stand cooking on a 4-burner cooktop even with knobs elsewhere, but that's me. I echo Shannon's suggestion of using the Kitchen forum also. No offense to your architect or KD, but I've seen glaring mistakes made by them over on Kitchens.

  • 15 years ago

    Breezygirl, that's a good point. I had glossed over that the OP assumed a 36" cooktop must come with a grill. The OP can buy the 36" cooktop with all 6 burners, and just buy an accessory griddle for $50 (for pancakes and such) that you can put away when not needed. Though I still like the configuration of a rangetop more than a cooktop, regardless of the width. Not sure if the OP is still tuning in though....

  • 15 years ago

    I am very happy with my Liebherr 36'' FD. Refer space is not huge, but it is very efficient. With your bev center, you should be fine. Freezer space seems a bit limited, so if you tend to keep lots of things in your freezer think twice. Very quite, very good looking. French doors do not self close, you really need to shut them fully. Two months in, and no problems so far. The SS fronts cleans easy enough, but gets smudged just as easy. Jon

  • 15 years ago

    I also have one of the first generation units of the Liebherr HC2062 (36", paneled and integrated FD). It's been installed a little more than 2 years now. Initially, I had problems with the FD not self-closing as well as with the icemaker. I am delighted to tell you that the former problem was addressed with a retrofit and has long been completely resolved! For the past 18 months or so, there have been no issues whatsoever and I am convinced that the 2062's doors are indeed self-closing as long as they have been installed or retrofitted correctly. As for the icemaker, the circuit board that controls it was also an item in need of replacement/correction shortly after initial install. Although it has operated just fine since then, it has recently failed again. This time, the tech will be replacing the entire icemaker unit with an upgrade. Since that won't happen until this week, I can't report as yet on how that fix turns out.

    Despite these issues, I've been pretty happy with my Liebherr in general. Before I bought the 2062, I consciously accepted this risk which often accompanies first generation products (be they appliance, electronics, cars, etc.): some manufacturing kinks won't get identified and resolved until there is a critical mass of the consumer base which has put the new units through their paces in the field. Luckily, in my case, the parts that have failed on the 2062 have not affected my unit's essential performance areas. IOW, no compressors have failed, no fans have blown, no doors have fallen off, no freezers have started heating, etc. Moreover, my guess is that most of the early manufacturing defects of the 2062 which have been identified by the guinea pig class of consumers have since been resolved and should not be an issue with current generations of this product.

    Meanwhile, I have taken more joy in having a unit that is extremely efficient in keeping things cold, frozen and fresh. Although it did take a bit of trial and error to figure out how to get the maximum usage out of the space, I am really quite satisfied that the Liebherr holds much more than first impressions might otherwise suggest. (Please note that, on the rare occasions when I have overload, I do make use of another refrigerator that is located in my summer kitchen). In my primary -but-small galley kitchen, having a FD refrigerator with bottom freezer drawers was a layout essential. The resulting machine is so incredibly quiet, tall, sleek and handsome that nearly everyone who comes into my kitchen for the first time mistakes it for cabinetry and is quite surprised to learn that it's a refrigerator. Finally, on the occasions when I've needed service on this unit, I've found the response team at the service center to be professional and courteous and the dispatched field techs to be competent.

    HTH

  • 15 years ago

    Thanks to everyone for the input. Will check out the 30 inch Wolf range top. I will say that I prefer the understated look of the Wolf stainless countertop knobs vs big honkin red knobs, but perhaps Wolf offers color options? I definitely don't need 6 burners as I've been functioning ok with 1994 Jenn Air cooktop with 4 burners (but only 2 functioning most of the time) and tiny downdraft in island. Warming drawer is hubby's request as he works late so I'll definitely be using at bottom of triple stack -- no problem with location in my mind. Off to check out Kitchen forum now...

  • 15 years ago

    Sweetandrew - Wolf will give you black knobs instead of the red ones if you request them. Most people prefer the red knobs. Some people buy the Wolf ranges and rangetops for the red knobs alone!

  • 15 years ago

    My kitchen probably looks different from how yours will, but coincidentally chose a very similar group two years back:

    -Liebherr CS2062 36"
    -Kitchenaid KEMS378SSS 27" oven/microwave
    -Wolf 36" rangetop with grill

    Haven't regretted any of the selection, however it does catch my eye that all the other appliances sit flush with our flush-door cabinets, while the Kitchenaid noticeably sits on top of the cabinet facing, so protrudes out an inch along an otherwise unbroken wall of cabinets. Not sure if if couldv'e been installed flush with the cabinet faces, or whether other brands could have.