In this day and age, vinyl windows are a better alternative to aluminum frames. Aluminum sweats and can deteriorate adjoining trim, caulk, drywall. Vinyl does not.

Bob, I was wondering if you ended up using the Sun Windows? Do you like them? Did you find any more feedback about them? I just came across them as well, and was wondering what people thought.
Thanks.

Vinyl windows? Until they can make them look and feel like wood, not crack after a decade of sun, and NOT look like a Lowes/Home depot doublewide window, aluminum/wood clad is the better economical and durable choice. IMHO.

The Sun windows I looked at are extruded aluminum clad. The dealer I talked to prefered the Sun for double hungs and recommends Lincoln for casement. I had never heard of Sun before, so I was trying to find out more info. Thanks.

I've never heard of SunClad windows but thier website show they have an extruded aluminum cladding like Marvin (and much better than Pella's thin roll-form aluminum cladding) however they have a a compressible PVC jamb liner like the ones Marvin stopped making 10 years ago.

I had Sun Windows quoted after I came across them at a local building supply house. The website touts them as being an affordable alternative in the aluminum clad line of window brands, but I found Jeld-Wen's fully extruded Siteline EX & M&W's Mira lines to be much more affordable. Marvin was WAY out of our price range, Pella Architect line was less than Marvin, but still high. Andersen was right in line with Pella. Sun is supposed to be a "spin off" of Andersen in that when the origianl owners sold Andersen, a grandson or some other relative bought the original factory back and started producing their own line of windows called Sun.

With all that being said, I haven't had any of these brands installed in a home that I've owned, so no personal experience other than what I've seen and heard in the showrooms and had priced. Like with anything else, shop the price around among dealers--even if it's for the same brand. You would be amazed some of the price differences we've seen for the exact same window!

Sun was not a spin off of Andersen. It appears someone has confused Anderson and Andersen.

Here is a link that might be useful: Sun history

macv and mydreamhome, thanks for the comments. I think I have eliminated Sun from my consideration as I think they are nice, but I think I want to go a step up from them. Unfortunately the budget will not allow for Marvin, so I am considering Jeldwen Siteline EX and Lincoln as I am trying to stick with extruded aluminum clad. I have talked to people who like the Lincoln, but they do have PVC under the clad on the sills (I think) and I am not sure about that. The Siteline EX's have treated wood under the cladding. There are so many different things to consider with windows, it's amazing.

Any additional input is appreciated. Thanks.

Have you looked at Marvin Integrity? They are quite a bit less expensive than the regular Marvin line. They come in standard sizes only.

The Integrity windows have pultruded fiberglass exteriors, instead of aluminum, wood, or vinyl. We liked them a lot, but they were not available with the special glass we needed for our passive solar home, so we had to look elsewhere.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pultrusion

I thought Jeld-Wen only offered roll-form aluminum sash cladding. If that is the case, their windows can't be fairly compared to windows with extruded aluminum cladding.

The Integrity window does not yet offer spacer bars between the glass (with applied mullions).

When we almost spec'd them close to two years ago, one salesman told us those were available, although we did not want them, preferring between-the-glass grids for ease of cleaning. However, he was wrong about a couple of other things, so he was probably wrong about that, too.

macv and creekside, thank for the additional comments. I am attaching a link to the Jeldwen site. The line I am talking about is the Siteline EX and it appears to have extruded aluminum (click on the standard features). Like I mentioned ealier, there are so many different things to keep track of that I hope I am not wrong here. If you happen to have a chance to look at the link, please let me know what you think.
Thanks.

Here is a link that might be useful: Siteline EX

It says extruded.

We looked at JELD-WEN alongside Semco, which we ended up using. They were both on display at our builder's preferred window supplier. We felt the JELD-WEN were not at substantial. However, I don't recall which model JELD-WEN was on display. It may have been a different model.

Sorry about my typo-Anderson with an 'O' was the original family window & door business.

Here's the breakdown we got from our local Jeld-Wen distributor: Jeld-Wen has 4 levels of aluminum clad windows & doors- a builder line (not as easy to find info on this line), the Traditions line-combination of roll form & extruded aluminum (this is the line Home Depot sells), the Siteline EX line-all extruded aluminum, and Custom-all extruded aluminum. All come with their "Auralast" treated wood.

creekside-what has been your experience with the Semco windows you used? How did they compare price-wise to other aluminum clad options? We really liked the Integrity line, but the local dealers did not recommend them because we have 5 specialty windows (3 arched segment casements, 1 round & 1 oval) that would have to be aluminum clad and they said it wouldn't look right. Their French doors were pretty pricey too. The windows themselves were priced very competitively and their U,R & SHGC ratings were better than the Jeld-Wen Siteline EX if I remember right. I so wish the Integrity would work for us--arghhhh!

Anyone know how much difference each .01 increase/decrease in performance U-value ratings makes with a window unit-0.33 vs. 0.30 or 0.29? Is this a difference you're going to feel physically inside tthe house, in your pocketbook, both or neither?

Jeld-Wen windows (not counting the Builder series) used to be called Caradco, Norco and Pozzi in order of increasing quality.

The aluminum cladding on the Jeld-Wen windows is unusual. It may be extruded but it is applied tight to the wood sash as if it were roll-formed (see Pella Proline).

Roll-formed aluminum cladding has a bad reputation because water can get trapped behind it and rot the wood. Most extruded aluminum cladding has a space behind it so the outer part of a sash is essentially aluminum and the inner part is essentially solid wood. Water is less likely to damage the wood in this detail.

It appears that Jeld-Wen puts the aluminum cladding tight to the wood and relies on its "AuraLast" preservative treatment to prevent decay of the wood.

Here is the cladding on a Jeld-Wen SiteLine EX sash:

Here is the roll-formed cladding on a Pella ProLine sash:

Here is a Marvin Ultimate extruded aluminum clad sash:

Here is an Eagle Talon extruded aluminum clad sash:

Eagle is now owned by Andersen.

The details of the Jeld-Wen windows above and below the SiteLine EX series show roll-formed aluminum cladding (rounded corners and crimped edges) and the word extruded is missing from the standard features list.

Until there is confirmation from Jeld-Wen I would assume the Siteline EX has a thin extruded aluminum cladding that is glued onto the wood sash as if it were roll-formed aluminum. It is obviously not as thick as typical extruded aluminum cladding.

An important detail to check out is how the sash corners are fabricated. If the thin extruded aluminum overlaps in the corners like roll-formed sheets then I would not see any advantage in it being extruded.

This is what the Eagle extruded cladding looks like:

This is what a Pella ProLine roll-form cladding looks like overlapped at the sash corners:

WOW macv! Thanks for all the info. I get what you are saying about the Siteline possibly being extruded, but not the type of extruded I am looking for. The eagle picture is helpful. I admit I don't fully understand the drawings, but will study them more. Attached are some drawings from Lincoln. Can you tell me if those look more like the Eagle picture?

I really don't know where to turn on this. I am considering Lincoln, maybe no to Siteline EX now. I am getting a quote for Marvin Ultimates, but am afraid of the cost. Sounds like I need to look at Eagle. I went to a dealer about those and they were the ones who steared me to the Jeld-wen. Thanks for all the help. I really do appreciate it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lincoln Double Hung Cross Sections

For a less expensive but reasonable alternative to the Marvin Ultimate DH I often specify Andersen's 400 Woodwright. The only real drawback is the limited color choice. It should be 10 to 15% cheaper, maybe more if you use a real Andersen dealer instead of Home Depot. It uses a plastic and wood fiber material called "fibrex" as the sash cladding in a configuration similar to full extruded aluminum cladding (minimum contact with the wood).

But stay away from the 400 Tilt-Wash; although the frame is the same, the sash is wood with PPG Flexicron paint.

"I so wish the Integrity would work for us--arghhhh!

That's how we felt when we found out they couldn't/wouldn't supply them with the right glass for our application.

Anyone know how much difference each .01 increase/decrease in performance U-value ratings makes with a window unit-0.33 vs. 0.30 or 0.29? Is this a difference you're going to feel physically inside tthe house, in your pocketbook, both or neither?

The U-value is the reciprocal of the R-value (technically, it's the other way around, but why quibble), so those numbers are R-3.0, R-3.3, and R-3.4 respectively. I seriously doubt that you would really feel the difference in either aspect.

One caution though, make sure they are giving you the numbers for the windows themselves, not the glass alone. They aren't the same thing. Same with the SHGC numbers. I have already run into product literature and an architect using the term glass when they meant window.

We almost ordered the wrong windows because of it.

We are looking at the Sun french doors which are quoted about $9000.00 less than the Marvin. Can anyone weigh in on this?

They were a bottom of the food chain product in 2010 and are a bottom of the food chain product in 2018.

Sun? We opted for Sun aluminum clad wood windows in our new build and they are definitely not bottom of the food chain. The Jeld-Wen clads and a couple of others we entertained certainly were, but the Suns were right there with the Marvin fiberglass - at least for us. And we preferred the finished look of the Suns to the Marvin. Now, Marvin ultimates are a much better product, but I don't think that's an apples to apples comparison.

About my only gripe with the Suns are the top sashes in the double hungs - they like to sag a bit when opened. We really like everything else about them though. The casements are especially nice.

millworkman - can you share what you don't like about sun windows? You seem to have a long history with windows and I respect your opinion.

We have a new build (moving this weekend), and have casement windows from Sun. We did have mechanical problems on two of them (30 windows total) after they were installed (and they were quick to fix), but we love the windows!

Poor quality, lack of quality control, average at besst performance numbers.

I have Sun Windows in my home and have for 9 years. We love them. The price was great for the quality. We did a two tone frame and sash, a chocolate brown frame and grayish green sash. The colors look as good as the day they were put in the house.

I'm a huge fan of Sun Windows. They were one of the first Aluminum Clad Window Manufacturers that designed their window with a weep system. Every vinyl window or all aluminum window that I have ever seen has a weep system. Because over time the silicone glazing between the aluminum or whatever surface adjoins the glass will begin to breakdown from the UV and develop pin holes in it. Over time this allows for water intrusion, and at that point if the water can't escape then the cladding becomes the wood window frames worst enemy.

I was a Custom Builder for 22 years and a couple years ago went to work for a vendor selling building products.

In 2007, I made a conscious decision to change over to buying the Jeld Wen Siteline Series windows after reading an article in a Builder magazine about how Jeld Wen treated their clad wood frames with AuraLast (wood preservative). Most of the manufacturers at the time, weren't acknowledging that wood rot was an issue with clad windows. But it has always been and continues to be a problem.

I see it much more often now that I am on this side of the Building Industry.

You can go to Sun's website and check out their design where the cladding has an air space between the powder coated aluminum and the wood interior frame.

They are a family owned business (4 generations) and stand behind their product.