Software
Houzz Logo Print
btnik

Big Surprise Problem w Crossvile Empire Tile!

16 years ago

Just got delivery of the Crossville Empire General's Gray porcelain 14 x 14 tile (polished) that we selected for a bath remodel. We had used another color of the same tile in our entry way, and were very pleased. Apparently, rather than having a conventional glazing, the clay in this tile is constructed of a slurry of stone-like pieces over a more traditional porcelain clay substrate. After the two layers are fired and polished, the tile has amazing depth and richness, and each tile has unique stone-like variations. (We have had guests get down on their hands and knees in our entry way to examine it, when we told them it wasn't polished stone!) It really is extraordinary, with a price to match. (It's made by Ilva in Argentina.)

Here is our problem: Unlike our entry way, which was a totally flat installation, our bathroom required 14 x 3 1/2 bullnose pieces for the edge of the shower enclosure and around a recessed window in a tiled area in the shower. (These are the only trim pieces offered in the polished version of this tile. The unpolished version of General's Gray, which isn't nearly as attractive as the polished, offers more trim pieces.) We also thought that we would use the bullnose trim pieces around the base of the wall, wherever the tile butts up to the wall. So here's the surprise: Amazingly, the bullnose trim pieces ($11 each) do not have the same finish on the edge that is supposed to remain exposed as they have on the face of the tile! Instead, the edge exposes both the upper stone layer, which goes about 20% into the tile, and then the plain porcelain substrate below. (The substrate is a light beige with black speckles in it, and is quite evident in the side view.) It is as if you took a regular piece of any tile and just polished one edge, without any concern for whether the edge had the same glaze or color as the face of the tile. I really can't believe that anyone would find this kind of trim acceptable. I plan to complain to the vendor when he opens up on Monday, but what can we do about the exposed edges that we will have? (Construction starts on Monday.) I called my contractor's tile installer, who could hardly believe what I was telling him about the exposed edge. He said we might use Schluter edging, which is available in a finish that would match our brushed nickle fixtures. He thought that might look fine at the edge of the shower tile surround, but he was concerned about the window. He said that Schluter makes various "quarter-round" pieces for outside corners, which we could use around the window recess, but he thought we might find that a bit too "institutional-looking". Has anyone ever heard of this kind of problem with bullnose tile? Does anyone have any suggestions? Is the Schluter edging a good idea? Should we try to get it in a gray to match the tile? Or choose a metal edging that matches the fixtures? We still like the tile and would hate to hold up construction while we shop and wait for something else. Any suggestions would be MUCH appreciated!

Comments (9)

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I've seen this before, but not with polished rectified porcelain. Be that as it may, this is what you're stuck with. As for the idea of using Schluter Rondec, I'm not a big fan unless there's no better choice, but in this case, it's sounds like that's where you are. I've done a couple of projects where the Rondec was used for outside corners and a finishing edge, and the look wasn't all that bad. Here are two of them. In the first 2 pics, every outside corner on the tub, as well as coming down the edges of the shower are all trimmed out in Rondec. The other pics, it's easy to see:

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Bill:

    Thank you for the pics. They really helped us see how this may need to be done. The Schluter edge looks fine for the edges. Not quite as crazy about it for the outside corner edges (although it looks like you did a beautiful job with it). Question: for the outside edges around the recessed window, I wonder if we should just skip the tile in that recess and do a jamb and casing for the window out of some waterproof moulding, if such a thing is available. The window is fairly high and small, 48" x 12", at the back of the tub/shower enclosure. It starts about 73" above the floor, where the existing tile ends, so it won't get a lot of splashing from the shower. We were just going to continue the new replacement tile up to the ceiling and tile in the recess around the window (it is recessed about 3"). We are placing the existing old window with a new vinyl window. If we could find another way to waterproof the recess, like with a waterproof jamb and case, maybe that would work. (Does such a thing exist?) Of course that still leaves no solution for the tile niches we were planning for the walls of the surround. Maybe a complementary trim from another tile series would work for those?

    Thank you for your quick response. This is really aggravating. Work is starting tomorrow, when I also get on a plane for the E Coast. (I promised my wife that everything was ready to go and that she would not be left with any problems!) I like to plan these projects down to the last detail, and this was so unexpected.

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Concerning around the window, that's more of an aesthetic question, which means you're the only one with the right answer. :-)

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    "Has anyone ever heard of this kind of problem with bullnose tile?"

    Sadly, all the time. In fact, I make it a point to see a bullnose piece before committing to the tile. It just amazes me what people will put up with...

    What about revising your design to include some of the matte finish tiles in addition to the polished? Then use the matte finish bullnoses. Turn it into a design feature --

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I like sweeby's suggestion, making it a design feature if you can find a look you like. Either by using the matte version of the bullnose and some matte tiles in your design, or find a different coordinating accent tile that also has a matching bullnose. (see link)

    Here is a link that might be useful: accent tile and matching ogee

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    The matte finish (unpolished) General's Gray really isn't attractive, IMHO, and doesn't look good installed next to the polished. (One of the tile places I visited had them in an alternating diamond pattern. They don't look remotely like the same tile.) I suspect that the matte finish bullnose pieces are made in the same idiotic way as the polished ones we have. From the bullnose side, you can literally see the division between the upper and lower layers of the tile. The bullnose does not continue the surface finish, as it would with most tiles.

    We went shopping today for other trim from other tile series, but nothing really seemed to work well. We also looked at Schluter trim (and other brands of the same type) with our tile, and my wife is ok with it, even around the niches and the window. We hate living in construction mess, so we try to have rapid well-planned renovations (thanks to our outstanding contractor, it has always worked). It's not worth it for us to hold up construction while we shop and wait for a new kind of tile trim. The Schluter trim in brushed chrome actually looks pretty good. Fortunately, we were planning a more contemporary look anyway, and the other hardware is also brushed chrome/nickel. Agree with sweeby that you should look at everything first. (Although, that said, we just received some really terrific towel bars etc that we bought online, even though the images were not that great. Just got lucky that time, I guess.)

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    We are experiencing this same problem with Crossville Empire. We've chosen to use Schluter "Jolly" edging for the exposed edges and are mitering the edges of the tiles on the outside corners of the tub surround niches.

    We've also had quality issues with Crossville Empire tile, including, some edges on some tiles not being micro-bevelled, chips along the micro-bevelled edges, chipped corners, tiles packed back-to-face (resulting in scratched faces) instead of back-to-back, inclusions in the tile surface, etc. Crossville offered to send a replacement shipment (they wanted me to pack up and return all of the tile from the original shipment), but neither Crossville nor the supplier would check the replacement shipment to see if it had similar quality issues.

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    I just ordered the same Schluter Scheine Jolly edging today in brushed SS. We're going to use it along the top of a 3" wall base strip of tile (which we had planned to do in the bullnose), along the edge of the tub/shower surround where it meets the normal drywall, around a window, and around two niches. It makes for a very contemporary look, so you have to want that. As you know, the "Jolly" edging profile lets you have the narrower edge facing out so that the edging isn't quite as prominent.

    Didn't think about mitering the tile. Have you had luck with that? Seems as if it would be difficult, but might look nice if it works. We used the Crossville Empire in our entryway, and it still looks like the day it was installed. I'm told that this kind of rectified porcelain tile is the hardest, most durable you can buy. If you've had quality problems, it might have been an exceptional case. (Interesting that Lowes just started carrying a very similar tile from China. It is available in two nice colors but in just one size -- 12" x 24". Same depth of finish using stone pieces, not a glaze. And it is less than $4 sf. No trim pieces, just the field tile. If it holds up as well, it could be a very attractive option for large areas where someone wants a polished limestone look.)

  • 16 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    We used the Empire series (polished) in Palais Taupe in a bathroom four years ago. The bullnose was used around the shower door. The Palais Taupe is a light color. Is it possible that the dark colors have this problem? Is it possible for you to switch to one of the lighter colors of tile?

    This tile is ridiculously expensive and shouldn't have this problem.