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performance v reliability

18 years ago

What is the trade off between performance & reliability when trying to decide between pro-style/high end appliances and "regular" ones. Are folks really preparing "better" meals on the expensive ranges/cooktops/ovens. Is that Sub-Zero really keeping stuff much fresher/colder than a good (as opposed to low-end or least expensive) "typical" refrigerator model etc.,etc.

The reason I ask, is that we are embarking on a mid-range kitchen remodel and I'm trying to decide on appliances. Does the pro-style stuff justify the huge prices?? I am a very good cook and cook dinner at home from scratch nearly every night (not always gourmet, but, hey I've got 2 kids under 5). We have a bottom of the line gas stove with no features to speak of (came with house), yet I am able to cook on it with very good success, making a wide variety of foods that I've been told are excellent (I don't always agree, but . . .) Will my cooking improve much if I get that 36" pro-style cooktop I so covet?? I am a bit nervous about reliability because 2 or 3 close friends who have gone with pro-style say that they would not again because of the reliability issues (they both claim these products don't cook/clean/freeze any better -- just look better).

Just looking for some thoughts/experiences. Thanks!

Comments (11)

  • 18 years ago

    I went high end on the range and mid-level on everything else. If you're going to splurge on one thing, in my opinion the range is the place to do it. Having all high output burners with all of them having a great simmer makes it a lot easier to cook. Yes, you can cook well on lesser equipment and many people do. Because of the size of my kitchen, I'm living with one oven - two would be a lot more convenient at times, but I make do.

    On the other hand, for the most part a fridge is a fridge - it keeps things cold - and a DW is a DW - it cleans and dries dishes - so while I bought good KA appliances - I didn't feel the need to go Sub-Zero or Miele. Others have different priorities.

    As far as reliability, it's a crapshoot no matter what you buy. I've been pretty lucky with my choices - but frankly these days they don't make them like they used to. My old Whirlpool appliances lasted over 20 years without any problems - the fridge is still going strong in the garage after 26 years as are the washer dryer.

    Getting pro-style stuff doesn't guarantee more or less reliability. Even the good brands occasionally have lemons. Just do as much research as you can.

  • 18 years ago

    I was going to say almost exactly what Weissman said. We went with a Wolf rangetop for reliability and performance. Having a large family, we needed several large burners, so we have a 48"...Not really available in 'regular' appliances. If it meant spending that kind of money, we decided to go the extra few hundred to have the one we believed would perform and last the best.

    Agreeing with fridges only keeping things cold and dishwashers only needing to get things clean (and be quiet about it) we went with Electrolux all-fridge and all-freezer, and mid?-range Bosch dishwashers...definitely not the top of the line, but work wonderfully.

    The oven was also important to me, but we kept to budget by finding our Fisher & Paykel dbl oven on ebay.

    Better meals? Hard to say. My family always liked my cooking anyway...But we are enjoying the cooking more, and I think we are enjoying the meals more and trying more things. We are able to get more power and more even heat with the rangetop, and definitely can prepare adequate amounts at once, rather than having to do 'shifts' in the larger pans. Having convection and 2 ovens is a definite improvement.

  • 18 years ago

    Thanks for the input. I am leaning towards reserving my splurge for a 36" pro-style cooktop and going "regular" (though in stainless) for everything else (including dbl wall ovens). I'd love a range but can't really spend more than 4,000 for the cooking stuff (and I'm not doing a micro) and have found it hard to find anything in that price range.
    I agree that every product has "lemons" but I have to be frank and say that it seems like lemons are somewhat more prevalent in a lot of these high end products (rather like high end cars in some respects). I have a crappy dishwasher, fridge and stove and they haven't given me any trouble even though they are undoubtedly 10+ years old (came with house). I'd also agree that they aren't made as well these days - although I haven't had functional issues some of this stuff seems very cheaply made in terms of finishes.

  • 18 years ago

    The advice given is right on. We used to have a house with all "builder's special" appiances. We upgraded just our gas cooktop to a pro unit and it made an incredible difference in our cooking. It also added enjoyment in not waiting forever to boil water for pasta and such.

    As for reliability, yes, it is odd to buy a new unit like Viking cooktop and have it leak gas. But fortunately, these are simple devices so once there, they stay working. And warranty repair is all it took.

    Other items are much more complex. Our subzero has required way too many expensive repairs and we bought the best of the best they offered then (48 inch). So for our second remodel, we are trying to avoid Subzero at all cost although we are leaving ever so slight window open in that if we can't get what we need in other brands, we will still consider it. But we hope not.

    So in general, when you go this route, you need to notch down reliability one or two steps below what you would normally consider in other purchases simply because any of these brands could be less reliable than much larger volume consumer products.

  • 18 years ago

    In the past I've purchased Maytag, JennAir, and Frigidaire, and can't say they've been stellar in reliability. I'm not sure where there is proof that 'high end' appliances have more issues than the cheaper ones. I have trouble believing that a high end company like Miele, for example, who controls and owns every aspect of their appliance production, has as many problems or lemons as the more major brands who have parts and pieces made all over the world by all different companies. I think maybe people just expect them not to because they pay more? I do think age has something to do with it. Unfortunately, we no longer live in a world that produces much that will last decades. My little KitchenAid mixer is a perfect example. It's still going strong after 23 years, but the new ones aren't lasting 2...So comparing our experiences with 20 yr old appliances to anything produced today probably doesn't tell us much, especially since most have changed ownership, and certainly production methods, since then.

  • 18 years ago

    I'm not sure there is a lot of hard evidence about how many high end appliances experience problems, but, anecdotally, it appears that they experience more. Consumer reports does a good job at tracking reliability among standard brands (huge sample size) but tends to rate high ends poorly on reliability (partly, I'm sure, from much smaller sample sizes).
    Personally, I've heard quite a few horror stories among friends when it comes to the higher end stuff which is part of the reason I started the post. For example , I have a bottom of the line (literally) tide-me-over until we remodel refridgerator (will be our basement extra for parties etc.) that I've had for 3 years - no problems - during the same time frame, my friend had a beautiful top of the line subzero installed to the tune of $8,000+ -- it has been nothing but headaches (repaired 3 times in one year). I think when people are spending that amount on an appliance, the fact that it would operate so poorly is more bothersome than it would be if they had problems with a $300 model (like ours). I think that is the thing that is a little eyebrow raising to me, personally. Is it naive to expect superior reliability/longevity along with performance when you are spending anywhere from 2X to 10X the amount of money for a given appliance?

  • 18 years ago

    Is it naive to expect superior reliability/longevity along with performance when you are spending anywhere from 2X to 10X the amount of money for a given appliance?

    Nope, but that's why SZ would not be on my list of consideration...Not that I'd ever have $8K to spend on a fridge, so it's not really a problem I'll have to worry about! But not all high-end brands are the same and have the same reliability issues, just like not all 'major brands' have the same reliability for the different appliances.

    CR's polls are limited, and should only be part of anyone's research on appliances. For one thing they ask about service calls...Not about how many times parts broke or needed replacing that an appliance repair pro wasn't called in to do. None of the many problems and expense we had with our Maytag fridge involved a repairman, so would not show up on their survey results. Maybe people with higher end appliances are more likely to call a service person than deal with things themselves? Maybe because higher end units have more bells and whistles that may need adjustment they have more calls? Hard to know. It's just my own opinion that some brands, at both ends of the price ranges, have reliability and repair issues, and I would look for reliability and customer service reputation no matter how much or little I had to spend. $300 is no less of a major expense to some people than $8K is to someone else, and we should all be able to *expect* quality and an appliance that works.

  • 18 years ago

    I agree with the others here about high-end on the range / cooktop and midlevel on the other products. A range or cooktop is the "wow" piece of the kitchen... you will use it the most, and it's what will get the looks, comments, and interest if/when you sell the house.

    The sticking point for me was the fridge. I really wanted the look / size of a built-in, but I was aghast at paying 6-8K for it. As it turns out, I found a floor model Monogram 36" at just over 3K. A few little scratches / dings, but well worth the 3K savings. If I hadn't found it, I would have likely gone with a CD French-door.... but it would always have been a "what if / should I have"...

  • 18 years ago

    I have read various overviews of the subzero issues. I have yet to read much specific issues. Does the compressors fail and the unit does not work? What specdific issues are people experiencing. I have challenged sales people but without specifics they do not have to deny anything. I even sent a note to Sub without a reply.

  • 18 years ago

    I will give you samples of our issues with the 48 Subzero purchased in 2001:

    1. A small fan died. Caused the fridge to stop working. I forget what it is for but it is a small, 3 inch fan, not the main blower than cools the compressor coils.

    2. While the repairman was there fixing #1, he said that soon after warranty, a mjor component dies and you get a fault on the fridge. He replaced that module.

    3. A while later, the fridge stopped getting cold again. Called them. Turned to be a wire that had come lose. Fixed under warranty.

    4. A few of our drawers in the freezer kept falling off the track. We just put up with them until one time when we realized they were the wrong ones for our unit. By then, warranty was over and we got hit with a few hundred dollars to replace them. You would think a mistake like this would be at their expense, not ours. But I guess not.

    5. Recently, we noticed that when we openned the fridge door, the lights would not come on, and the control panel would stay off, not showing antything. Being an engineer and so annoyed at all the repairs, I decided to take matters into my own hands :). Popped the top panel off and realized that the door switch was not working. Lubricated the switch and it is working now. Yes, that switch gets used a lot but come on. On such an expensive switch, install one with higher duty cycle.

    Meanwhile, our 15 year old GE fridge in the garage with all the dust around it is still ticking. Considering that we shipped it 2000 miles from another home, it is amazing level of reliability.

    Here is another annoying thing about SZ. On a number of the units, the compressor is on top. Unfortunately, to open and clean the coils, you have to unscrew the thing and then try to unclip a couple of springs. I can't think of a worse engineering design than this. How hard is it to have a couple of latches and open the thing? Then you get to clean the coils except that they run front to back. And when they get a coat of oil on them, they are impossible to clean. The fins are very, very close together so you can't get much between them. And if you press ever so slightly, you bend them.

    To top it off, the thing is noiser than most fridges out there.

    Mind you, it is a nice fridge and all. Don't want folks to think you have to avoid them at all cost. But if you have any other option that looks good to you, go with that.

  • 18 years ago

    If you use a lot of fruit and vegetables you might appreciate a high humidity fridge. Leibherr and vintage no-defrost fridges keep produce fresher much longer and are energy efficient (avoid vintage frost free fridges - high energy consumption). While refurbished fridges are expensive my inexpensive original condition 1950's fridge was in such good shape that I haven't had to do anything to it other than enjoy its flawless performance and butter warmer. :-) Ones in that condition are rare and I had to hunt around.

    If I hadn't decided to get a vintage Chambers for the reliability, cooking capabilities (you should taste my roasts and bread now with the retained heat cooking)and features (top broiler and griddle) I probably would have mixed a Leibherr and one of the well reviewed Kenmore Elite ranges, but I personally didn't like the styling of the Kenmore and wanted a cooktop with more room. I kept trying to find a pro range without the reliability issues (and thought one was close) but after finding complaints about it on the board as well I just gave up. For me, the decision has been the right one. The Chambers cooking capability is exceptional - so much better than I ever anticipated - and it has been completely reliable. I know I'm gushing here but it really is fantastic.

    After my experience would not recommend a Bosch dishwasher. My Bosch has already stopped functioning and the experts don't know how to fix it. Plus it etched my glasses despite following all instructions to the letter. My deep soup bowls also don't fit in the rack well (my fault, should have taken them to the store). Can deal with the damp plastic. If it isn't fixed in the next couple of weeks the Bosch will be replaced. I am currently harboring deep appliance dislike for the thing. Not what you expect for a dishwasher with a close to $1,000 price.

    Although not a kitchen appliance, where I would spend my money is a Miele washing machine. Had one several years ago in another home but bought the line that the Bosch frontloader had the same cleaning abilities. Nope. I really notice the difference in my whites and how well my clothes are holding up. The Bosch dryer is fine.