GET A NEW TUB!

That is bull crap. You are going to have to live with this damaged tub for how many years? Absolutely unacceptable. Sue it can be patched but the patch will not hold forever - especially as weight is put on it.

I think it's OK to use left over items as long as they are like new - still in the box and undamaged - and it is a color and style that is acceptable to you.

But a damaged item - a cracked tub - and one that is the wrong size? To save $120??? That is silly.

Get a new tub.

The plumber dropped a tool on the side of our already installed whirlpool tub. We agreed to have it patched because we were told it would match perfectly. Well it doesn't. If you look hard enough you can find it.

I don't even see it anymore, I guess I'm used to it but the fact is it does NOT match.

I can't say that I've exactly been there before, but you're not unreasonable.

If the tub had been installed, and then scratched or otherwise damaged while other trades were working (tile, paint, etc), then patches and repairs are a normal punch list item at the end of a build. But a damaged tub should not be installed in your cost plus build without your approval.

In a fixed cost contract, this would be acceptable behaviour if fixed before the final walk-thru. In a fixed contract, the GC has control over materials not specified and the warranty they provide (2-10 builder warranty) will cover you if the patch fails.

If you still want to work with this GC, try taking a different tactic with them. Let the GC know that his/her communication on this issue was not adequate. Thank him/her for trying to look out for your budget, but no damaged/seconds products should be used to build your house, and all deviations from that should be brought to your attention for approval. Calmly explain that you want the damaged tub removed, and a new, undamaged one installed. You won't be paying for the damaged tub or the labor to install or remove it, because it was not approved by you.

By the way, you can get a tub in less than 1 week if you are persistent or shop to other suppliers. I don't know if Fergussons (sp) is anywhere around you (they're part of HD Supply I think), but everytime I've needed a plumbing item, they've had it in stock... including our special order American Standard faucet handles that took 6 weeks and still weren't in at Lowe's.

We have done a couple of cost plus builds which turned out to be very good experiences. I think that the most important factor for success is trust between you and you contractor. Unless you can afford to be on site for most of the build it is really the only option. If you do not want to change builders, which would be my first choice, your best option is to convince him that you are really on top of the situation and he will not be able to get way with anything. Start by making him replace the tub. Show up on site, as often as possible, at random times to observe what is being done. Ask questions and make them explain to your satisfaction. If you want quality work, and are willing to pay for it, let them know and dont accept less. You are the boss, they work for you.

When you go to buy a vehicle and to save you money they put on re-cap tires , would you accept that? Demand a new tub!

You need a new tub. Did we have the same gc? Hmmm.... One suggestion I have is to put on some very critical "glasses" and walk around your house, examining things very carefully as you would right before the final walk-through. Hopefully you will come up with nothing, but it is better to deal with things now.

Good luck,

Amy

This is often a problem when a minimal contractor written contract is used. Any professionally written contract would require all materials to be new and undamaged.

You should have the right to reject the work/material without further discussion or, if you wish, to accept it with a fair credit from the builder.

To me, "cost plus" means that I pay what the contractor pays, plus some percent - say 20%. It doesn't mean I pay retail for cast offs from other jobs where the contractor screwed something up.

I don't think $120 off is a very good discount on a damaged tub. Why not go to the Reuse Store and get a used (but undamaged) tub for $100?

What did he charge you for the French doors?

This could be a one-off thing, but it sounds to me like he might be ripping you off. Have you seen receipts for items? Have you compared the prices to what you can find on-line?

OTOH, he may sincerely be trying to save you money and the tub thing was because he had no time to shop around. You should double check on what he's charged for other items.

Also, keep in mind that he can't reasonably be expected to get the lowest possible price on every single item, and you don't want him billing you for ten man-hours to reflect time he spent trying to save $12.99 on a light fixture. But do spot check on items and also do as amyks suggests.

His summary indicates that OP is upset not so much about the tub as about the attitude.

I think bd-peck-charlotte said what you could/should say, very nicely:

~ If you still want to work with this GC, try taking a different tactic with them. Let the GC know that his/her communication on this issue was not adequate. Thank him/her for trying to look out for your budget, but no damaged/seconds products should be used to build your house, and all deviations from that should be brought to your attention for approval. Calmly explain that you want the damaged tub removed, and a new, undamaged one installed. You won't be paying for the damaged tub or the labor to install or remove it, because it was not approved by you. ~

OTOH, I'd inspect very, very, very carefully all past installations as well as all future installations. And make sure the goods match the bills and the receipts.

Companies do not just dump a tub on the premises... somewhere there is an invoice which says who that tub was supposed to be delivered to, and how much someone was billed. There is a slight difference between making use of overage from elsewhere and attempting to pass off damaged goods as new; in either case someone is/has been charged for the item and someone will be expected to pay for it.

Frankly, if you have to notice that something was used/damaged rather him saying 'oh look what I found that's a good deal', then it does give the impression that -at best- he has a bushel of wool with which to blindfold you. At worst, he has crossed the line which separates using overages (with the owner's permission) and otherwise.

And before anyone says anything about my use of the euphemism "otherwise", please take a moment to consider prior threads regarding theft of goods. What do you suppose happens to all those stolen goods?

I'd like to thank you all for your thoughtful responses. We are still muddling through this but your feedback has given me the resolve to stick by what feels like the right course. Thanks again.

Hi,

I think it depends a bit on the tub damage and what it is made of. In our house we had a Kohler tub and that was tick steel. Someone dropped a tool, no dent but the white enamel was gone ion a thumb print size area and we could see the black undercoat. The builder aranged for someone to come and patch it. It was very good, I could not see where the damage was.

If your tub is fiber glass / plastic, and the damage is great then obviously this is an issue and no patching is going to fix it. Also size is another issue.

As far as the process goes, if the builder's quality is good, and he does a good job then I think you will be fine. What I think is missing is the communication bit which is not easy to ge right.

You will have to make many choices for your house, and it looks like you are just at the start of the choice making process. Note that your need to be very detailed in your specification. Take for example your plumbing which I guess you are doing now. You need to make decisions now on the final shower control knobs. Why? I do not even have the dry wall up. Well the shower control knob matches to a shower control valve. That valve has to be plumbed in and behind the sheet rock and tile. Depending on the shower knob choice, the builder has to install the correct valve. You do not want to have the knob on site, but delivered a few months down the road when you need it. A good plumbing store will hold stuff for you and bring components in as you need it. If he puts in the wrong valve, then you can only have this sort of shower knob.

Similarly you also have to specify where you want hand holds and grab bars, where the towel rails are etc? Why? Well the builder needs to put in extra chunks of wood known as blocking, so that he can put in these towel bars later.

These nitty gritty details require alot of communication and education. You need to know what the builder is up against and why he is asking you these seemingly crazy questions, endless questions. And he should be asking you alot of questions. If not then that that is a bad sign. The more you understand about the process, the options you have, the more likely you will end up with what you want.

Another crazy example is door handles. Left hand or rigth hand door, in swing or out swing. Color finishes.

I went through all this and ended up checking each order myself with an excel spreadsheet. Each tap, show bar, door component has typically a 14 character manufactrer code. You need to be this detailed to get what you want. You also want to version each spreadsheet. So that if you update something, you can check that the builder has the most up to date list.

In the end I had a full time office job checking payments, and component schedules. And after all that I still did miss a few things. For example, it would have been nice to have had LIVE and NEUTRAl and GROUND at all light switches points in the house? Why? If you want the option to install certian remote controlled switches, or smart switches, they need a live and neutral line. Again this is a need to understanding the underlying proccess and available technology. Your builder can tell you all this, but you also need to ask him.

If you tell him specifically what you want, e.g. a Kohler Synchrony 6-foot bath K-1195-R, color Biscuit, color Kohler Ref code(-96). Note that this bath requires, K-7161-AF Clearflo 1-1/2 adjustable pop-up drain. Drain color Vibrant French Gold Kohler color code(-AF). Check floor spacing below tub and around tub to allow for drain clearance.

This is the level of detail you need, and a good plumbing shop can help you out on this. Note if you are married, your wifes input is paramount! She can also drive you bonkers ... :)

Good luck, I am sure it will be fine and don't let the paper work drag you down.

Warmest regards, Mike.

As a Plumber myself, allow me to act as the devils advocate here for a moment.

First of all, you are building a new home and therefore you rightfully expect all the materials used to construct that home to be New, and rightfully so. If were willing to accept patches and repairs you would have bought a fixer upper and did a rehab, not build from the ground up.

On the other hand. Whenever you go into a retailers store you no doubt look through their scratch and dent corner to see if you can save a buck or two.

It must be remembered that a building trades contractor is not only an installer but they are also by definition a material retailer whereas they buy materials at a wholesale price then by virtue of the installation they are delivering that material to the consumer at a retail price.

The key factor in this case is the level of honesty between the contractor and the customer. As was stated before, in all cases the customer has a right to expect that all materials used to construct there home be of a quality that is equal to or exceeds the quality of first run new materials and you may rest assured that they computed their bid on that fact, however, it is also a fact of life that nearly all contractors who have been in business for any length of time will have some materials that were excess to previous jobs or materials that may have been ordered for a job and for one reason or another they were not used, this could be a result of the material having been ordered on a non-refundable contract, then the job was canceled or perhaps the homeowner changed their minds in the eleventh hour, or one of many other reasons. Needless to say, it is not important how the contractor happened to have the material, what is important is how they attempt to use the material.

Allow me to offer an example. Let us say that you order a 60gal A.O.Smith water heater and I actually install a 60gal. "State" water heater. On the one hand I could argue that "State" is a division of A.O.Smith and therefore it is the same item, and to that end I would be correct because often both are made on the same assembly line. On the other hand, if I were being totally honest with you I could use another approach. If you ordered the A.O.Smith water heater and I happened to have a "State" water heater in stock, I could say to you that I will be glad to get you the A.O.Smith but, I presently have an identical water heater under the "State" brand name, that is made by the same manufacturer to basically the same specs, but I could offer you a substantial savings in price. In this case you would more than likely be glad to accept the change and it would be fair to all parties concerned.

Get a new tub!!! We were at our site yesterday (about 7 hours away) and I saw that my master bathroom vanity had a small crack at the base. This is the side that will be installed flush against the wall.

I had my husband go outside to speak with the builder, who was unexpectedly on site with a painter. He is typically only there when we call in advance to give him the time we will be arriving and ask him to be on site. The builder acted like it was okay to install the damaged vanity since the crack would not be seen?!?!? He gave my husband some song and dance about the time it would take to get a new vanity and how it would delay the project.

Needless to say, my husband insisted on a new vanity and I am sending my sister or father out there tomorrow, unannounced, to watch them. If we wait until we are there next weekend or don't send anyone to check on them, I'm positive that the cracked vanity will be installed.

Lazypup:

Well thought out and I respect your response. I would only add to the honesty part, (using your example), is that BEFORE a contractor would install the "State" water heater, let the home owner know why/options and then let THEM make the choice BEFORE installing it, (not saying you don't do this or that isn't what you meant, just trying to highlight that better for us all). This is where a lot of builders fail in their communication and trustworthiness with home owners. Not assuming those types of things would save a lot on blood pressure medication for both parties. Homeowners just want to be a part of those types of "executive" decisions, even if it seems trivial to the contractor. What may be no big deal to some, is a big deal to others, esp. when it is coming out of your pocket!

anything with water running over it should not have a crack. imagine a cracked and patched roof tile--also not acceptable! patches are for those of us with old homes. if you have any remaining doubts....check the bath forum for 5 year old showers and tubs that have already failed. a different style (slightly) tub might be acceptable as a switch. a damaged tub (used or new) is not. good luck kren