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Fixed pane window questions

16 years ago

I was reading the window thread below and I thought of some questions about fixed pane windows but I didn't want to hijack that thread so I started another.

I have read where fixed pane windows are the cheapest type of window.

Is there a big difference in cost when comparing fixed pane windows with same grade/style double hung or casement windows?

If there is a difference, is there an average percent decrease? e.g. 10% cheaper per window etc.

My wife and I never open our windows because my allergies are so bad it would kill me so I don't really see a need for a mechanism for opening. I would definitely plan on double or single hung windows in all bedrooms, bathrooms, and hallways for emergency use but for all other windows such as in family/dining/study/breakfast/playroom area I would plan on fixed pane. Would this result in minimal or significant savings when comparing same grade windows. I'm still planning so I haven't sent out for any bids and would like this information so that I can spec window types in the plans.

Comments (22)

  • 16 years ago

    Code usually requires an operating window in most rooms.

  • 16 years ago

    The IRC requirement for natural ventilation (by windows, doors, and/or louvers) is that the clear openings total 4% of the floor area of each habitable space.

    The alternative is a mechanical ventilation system that provides .35 air changes per hour for each habitable space or a whole house system that provides outdoor air at 15 CFM per occupant based on 2 occupants for the first bedroom and one occupant for each additional bedroom.

    A habitable space is defined as a space used for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, closets, storage rooms, halls, etc. are not habitable spaces but a bathroom must have an exhaust fan.

  • 16 years ago

    One thing we did was pair a fixed window with double hung (DH:fixed:DH). The double hungs are decent sized and the fixed is larger (probably 2/3 the size of the DH combined). I did that in the dining room and den, I wish I did it in the great room also.

  • 16 years ago

    bb19,
    It's not only about the ventilation. It's about egress in case of a fire so the firefighters can access the space. Actually, the operable window needs to be of a certain size or bigger (link). You need to check the local requirements (they are a bit different in my city).

    Using pictures (fixed windows) to reduce cost is ok with me as long as there are enough operable windows in most of the spaces.

    Here is a link that might be useful: egress and code violations

  • 16 years ago

    Thanks Marthaelena. Looks like I need to study the IRC requirements.

  • 16 years ago

    "Egress" from a house is required to be through stairs and doors sized and located to meet the code. Windows and garages cannot be part of a required egress path.

    An "emergency escape and rescue opening" is an additional requirement for each sleeping room and is usually a window with a certain minimum opening size and maximum height above the floor that can be opened without special tools.

    The spaces the OP is asking about (family/dining/study/breakfast/playroom) would not be required to have emergency escape and rescue windows.

    These requirements are usually found in the applicable building code and enforced by the local building department.

  • 16 years ago

    "The spaces the OP is asking about (family/dining/study/breakfast/playroom)".../..."would not be required to have emergency escape and rescue windows."

    How did I miss that?.../...That is not what I meant.

    bb19,
    Will this be your forever home?

  • 16 years ago

    "Will this be your forever home?"

    Yes. That is the plan.

  • 16 years ago

    "The alternative is a mechanical ventilation system that provides .35 air changes per hour for each habitable space or a whole house system that provides outdoor air at 15 CFM per occupant based on 2 occupants for the first bedroom and one occupant for each additional bedroom."

    Would a HVAC meet these requirements?

  • 16 years ago

    So it looks like for the size home I'm going to build it would requre a minimum of 90 CFM. If I'm not mistaken a HVAC will easily put out 300+CFM per ton so does that mean code is met and I don't have to have 4% openings in areas I don't need emergency exits? In other words is it possible to have all fixed pane windows for the dining/breakfast/family room/study with an appropriate HVAC plan requirement ?

    Here is a link that might be useful: ventilation code

  • 16 years ago

    Mechanical ventilation can be a part of a heating and cooling system or separate from it since it involves bringing fresh air inside and exhausting stale air outside.

    In hot or cold climates a heat recovery unit (air-exchanger) is usually used to save energy. Some packaged HVAC systems contain the ventilation/air exchanger system in them as well as domestic water heating.

    These systems are expensive but I believe they will become the standard within 5 years when home builders and home owners understand them better.

    Here is a link that might be useful: fully integrated system

  • 16 years ago

    bb19, the link to ASHRAE standrds is not appropriate for a single family home. For guidance you should first rely on the applicable building code in your area and then hire a professional to design the system rather trying to figure it out yourself or letting a sub-contractor wing it; those days are over.

    Fixed glass windows will eventually save more in energy conservation than in initial window cost so be sure they are designed properly.

  • 16 years ago

    Your original question had more to do with money savings than code, so I will add my 2 cents regarding cost.

    I am not a big "window opener", but I do have an attic fan to pull in air to cool the house. I just don't like having windows open everywhere. I feel like I will forget they are open. So instead of putting in working windows, I put in a door with a screen door in every instance that I could. Therefore, I have air draw, but not from working windows.

    So when I went to get my window bids, I had a some specific ideas about which windows I wanted to open, and which I did not. I found that a fixed window was less expensive because I could purchase a less expensive line of windows because I didn't have to be worried about the quality of working parts.

    To explain that better...I have Pella windows, and they have 3 different quality lines: Designer (best), Architect (Better), and Proline (Good). Yes, there are some differences, but I was looking for non-moving windows, so the differences became not as big.

    I ended up "value engineering" my windows. For the ones that move, I upgraded to a nicer window. The doors are all Designer, as well. My moving windows are awning, btw. I have several groupings of windows, but did not make the whole grouping moving units. I will tell you that I cannot tell the difference, installed. The screens are the no-see, or whatever they are called. The awning hardware is minimal and blends in.

    For example, I have 5 windows across my bedroom wall. The middle one is my egress window so it is an awning, the other 4 are fixed. No one, including myself, sees that the middle window is different. I might also add that these are very tall windows, with no dividers or panes.

    The only time I had to use the more expensive window was for a special size.

    Also, for us, we were able to put a door to a small balcony outside two bedrooms. So the 2 remaining windows in each of those bedrooms are fixed. They are very large windows, and it was 25% savings to have them fixed. I realize that not everyone could do this, but it worked for us. If you had children, that wouldn't necessarily be a good option. Or teenagers, for that matter!

    We did not need egress windows in our kitchen, sunroom, livingroom, recroom, office, or workroom.

    There are some other issues with windows meeting code, and I leaned on my window salesman for help. However, I also spent some time researching on my own. I'm glad I did, because he did not cover code on several windows that needed to be tempered. And I had to watch the framers to make sure they framed the window holes to be at least 18 inches off the floor.

    Code is different in different counties.

  • 16 years ago

    The rule for tempered glass when the bottom edge of a glass pane is within 18" of the floor is often oversimplified. It only applies to a glass pane that is greater in area than 9 s.f. and when the top edge is greater than 36" above the floor. That is often the case with fixed glass units but not as often with double-hung units.

    I do not recommend mixing different grades of windows. Features lost by dropping down in quality include properly designed nailing fin seals, properly designed sills with drips, extruded cladding (roll form aluminum often substituted), and better looking muntin options. Sometimes different window types do not align, especially awnings and double-hungs so it is sometimes necessary to specify that the fixed window be fabricated from the awning model instead of another type if it is to align with an awning window.

    Usually a good window supplier will point these issues out to you including where tempered glass is required.

  • 16 years ago

    "They are very large windows, and it was 25% savings to have them fixed."

    That's significant. Thanks Suzicentri for the information. If I'm able to save that much then I'll invest the savings into window upgrades that I thought I may have to rule out due to cost such as simulated divided light muntins. Most of my construction will be "mid level" quality but I do want to splurge with windows/exterior doors/built-ins/molding.

  • 16 years ago

    If I'm able to save that much then I'll invest the savings into window upgrades that I thought I may have to rule out due to cost such as simulated divided light muntins.

    Better maybe to invest the savings in window upgrades that will save on heating/cooling costs, e.g., e-coating, gas filling, triple-glazing.

  • 16 years ago

    Using fixed glass has a downside too. In moderate seasons it is still necessary to run the HVAC and ventilation system because natural ventilation is not possible except through doors.

    When it comes time to sell the house you will probably find you are in a very small minority because I have never had a client who could tolerate all fixed windows in a space (if any) even in a kitchen over the sink. In 40 years I have only specified a residential fixed window where an awning window would interfere with an exterior deck or stair. I was even instructed to put awning windows in a hotel for energy conservation in moderate seasons, although I rarely see any of them open anymore.

  • 16 years ago

    "When it comes time to sell the house you will probably find you are in a very small minority because I have never had a client who could tolerate all fixed windows in a space (if any) even in a kitchen over the sink."

    This is the one thing I am concerned about even though this is planned to be a forever home.

  • 16 years ago

    bb19,
    That's why I asked you if this was your forever home.
    I would not buy a home with many fixed windows.
    HVAC: Gas or electric?
    Are you going to have a generator also?
    Is your floor plan ready?

  • 16 years ago

    It is really rare for spouses to be able to stay in a home for the rest of their lives. When the time comes that one or both need assistance, the income from the sale of a fully owned home will be very helpful whether you move to an assisted living facility or the home of a relative. The former happened to my parents who both lived to be 90 and to my in-laws who are currently 89 and 101. None of them wanted to leave their home but all later admitted they were very happy that they had done so.

    For this reason I find the tern "forever home" a little irksome; all you really know is that you intend it to be a long-term home. Since no one knows what the future will bring, it is wise to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

    I would only include elements in a house that were onerous to the general buying public if they could be modified for a reasonable cost after the sale (and therefore wouldn't lower the sale price by more than that amount) or if they would be likely be a part of a renovation by the new owner (in other words you're young) or if there were access to enough money that it didn't matter.

    Alternatively, you could use the window savings to start paying for long term care insurance.

  • 16 years ago

    Thanks everyone for your help. Macv and Martha both make good points about resale value. My plan is to live in this home forever but plans change. I think I'm going to find a happy medium and use fixed pane windows mixed with mechanical but do it in a way that is tasteful and not sloppy or random. Thanks again for the advice.