I don't have this model. I got the one with 100 in the model # free with my induction range last November. It replaced a 10 yr old Bosch that I loved. The Bosch was far superior. It was exceptionally quiet, the racks were sturdy and very adjustable, and it held lots of stuff. The Viking came with a broken panel and the repair part took months to get (and then only after my rep called and complained). The racks do adjust, but many tines are already bent. It is quite loud (compared to the Bosch) and doesn't hold as many dishes as the Bosch. It cleans well, but again I think the Bosch cleaned better. I hate the silverware container as my flatware handles don't fit in all of the tiny squares. I use one side with the square insert and one without. If the Bosch was stainless I would have put it back in and given the Viking away. As it is, I will keep this until the warranty runs out but will save for a good Bosch.

By the specs, the Viking made DFB450 (rather than rebadged Asko--I don't know which OrchidSlayer had) DW that came out just when I was buying my appliances seemed perfect. I loved the racks and the features. It said it had a dryer. It was a little warm (not hot) air puffer and the dishes came out sopping wet. Like wetter than they do when handwashed. And that was on full loads with lots of mass, which is what's required to dry on the machines/cycles with no dryer. According to the service guy, it was working normally. Viking took it back. I was sad. I liked that DW better than the one that replaced it, but I need it to dry as well as wash, because that's the harder chore!

Viking might have fixed the drying issue since then. You could ask. But they've been going through some corporate issues recently and have a very bad reputation for customer service. So it's basically a gamble. If you go for it, get it from a reputable local store that seems to be doing well (i.e., should be there in a few years if you need repairs). And worse comes to worst, DW's generally fit into standard sized openings so are pretty easy to swap out. Just make sure to lay the floor underneath, rather than trapping it with flooring...

Thank you both for responding! I have talked to my appliance guy, and since my interest that Viking was mainly the handle, he has suggested a Thermador, (which he says is a Bosch) The handle is not quite an exact match to the Bluestar, but it seems to be the next best option out there. It only comes in stainless, and while I was thinking I wanted black, I guess could live with the stainless which is what we have now, and we're used to it.
So, my new question is...does anyone know about this Thermador model DWHDT640JFP and can anyone confirm that a Thermador DW is made by Bosch? Thanks again in advance!

This post was edited by ctycdm on Tue, May 13, 14 at 19:07

Everyone has different tolerance when it comes to appliances but I must say when there are clearly 3 to 4 dishwashers that are generally ones people like best: Miele, Bosch, Kitchen Aid & Fisher & Paykel, it seems counter intuitive to settle on an outlier brand.

If handles are dictating this choice then I feel that's not the best criterion for choosing a dishwasher, especially among brands not known for the greatest service.

Why not just buy a Bosch?

Yes, I would buy a Bosch, or a KA, which served us well for 25+ years (in Hobart form) ...but if the Thermador is a Bosch with a handle I prefer, isn't that a reasonable option? ...and I wouldn't consider Thermador an "outlier brand" ...we had a Thermador cooktop, wall oven, microwave, and warming drawer that were still working perfectly after 27 years.
I'm just trying to confirm if anyone knows if they are one in the same? ... thank you for responding!

This post was edited by ctycdm on Tue, May 13, 14 at 19:27

This will probably be a bit difficult to read, but here is what ConsumerReports.org says from their top rated down. I just did a copy and paste. The 2 digit number on the left is their rating out of a possible 100. The 2-3 digit number after the rating is the cycle time in minutes.

The only Viking in their list rated a 44, and is Viking Designer Series DFB450E. Similar to tested model: Viking Professional VDB450E[SS] $1650
44

CU Recommended Kenmore Elite 12793 see here $1350
85
145
CU Recommended Kenmore Elite 12803 see here
Similar to tested model: Kenmore Elite 12793
$1450
85
145
CU Recommended Kenmore Elite 12833 see here
Similar to tested model: Kenmore Elite 12793
$1420
85
145
CU Recommended Kenmore Elite 12783 see here $1200
82
135
CU Recommended Kenmore Elite 12763 see here
Similar to tested model: Kenmore Elite 12783
$1020
82
135
CU Recommended Kenmore Elite 12773 see here
Similar to tested model: Kenmore Elite 12783
$1100
82
135
CU Recommended Kenmore Elite 12813 see here
Similar to tested model: Kenmore Elite 12783
$1120
82
135
CU Best Buy Bosch Ascenta SHX3AR7[5]UC see here $730
81
95
CU Best Buy Bosch Ascenta SHE3AR7[ ]UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch Ascenta SHX3AR7[5]UC
$630
81
95
CU Best Buy Bosch Ascenta SHE3ARF[ ]UC (Lowe's) see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch Ascenta SHX3AR7[5]UC
$650
81
95
CU Best Buy Bosch Ascenta SHX3AR5[ ]UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch Ascenta SHX3AR7[5]UC
$680
81
95
CU Recommended KitchenAid KDFE454CSS see here $1500
81
140
CU Recommended Thermador Topaz Series DWHD640JFM see here $1500
80
125
CU Recommended Thermador Sapphire Series DWHD650JFM see here
Similar to tested model: Thermador Topaz Series DWHD640JFM
$1700
80
125
CU Recommended Thermador Sapphire Series DWHD650JFP see here
Similar to tested model: Thermador Topaz Series DWHD640JFM
$1700
80
125
CU Recommended Thermador Topaz Series DWHD640JFP see here
Similar to tested model: Thermador Topaz Series DWHD640JFM
$1500
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 800 Plus Series SHX7PT55UC see here $1300
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 800 Plus SHX8PT55UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 800 Plus Series SHX7PT55UC
$1500
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 800 Plus Series SHE7PT55UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 800 Plus Series SHX7PT55UC
$1300
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 800 Plus Series SHP7PT55UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 800 Plus Series SHX7PT55UC
$1300
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 800 Plus Series SHV7PT53UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 800 Plus Series SHX7PT55UC
$1300
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 500 Series SHP65T55UC see here $900
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 500 Series DLX SHP65TL5UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 500 Series SHP65T55UC
$900
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 500 Series SHE65T55UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 500 Series SHP65T55UC
$900
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 500 Series SHX65T55UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 500 Series SHP65T55UC
$950
80
125
CU Recommended Miele Futura Dimension G5575SCSF see here
Discontinued
$1950
80
150
CU Recommended Miele Futura Dimension G5605SC see here
Similar to tested model: Miele Futura Dimension G5575SCSF
$1700
80
150
CU Recommended Miele Futura Dimension G5670SCVi see here
Similar to tested model: Miele Futura Dimension G5575SCSF
$1700
80
150
CU Recommended Miele Futura Dimension G5675SCSF see here
Similar to tested model: Miele Futura Dimension G5575SCSF
$1900
80
150
CU Recommended Bosch 300 Series DLX SHX53TL5UC see here $850
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 300 Series DLX SHE53TL5UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 300 Series DLX SHX53TL5UC
$850
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 300 Series DLX SHP53TL5UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 300 Series DLX SHX53TL5UC
$800
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 300 Series DLX SHV53TL3UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 300 Series DLX SHX53TL5UC
$850
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 300 Series SHE53T55UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 300 Series DLX SHX53TL5UC
$800
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 300 Series SHP53T55UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 300 Series DLX SHX53TL5UC
$800
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 300 Series SHV53T53UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 300 Series DLX SHX53TL5UC
$850
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 300 Series SHX53T55UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 300 Series DLX SHX53TL5UC
$850
80
125
CU Recommended Bosch 800 Series SHE68T55UC see here $950
79
125
CU Recommended Bosch 800 Series DLX SHE68TL5UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 800 Series SHE68T55UC
$950
79
125
CU Recommended Bosch 800 Series DLX SHX68TL5UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 800 Series SHE68T55UC
$1000
79
125
CU Recommended Bosch 800 Series SHV68T53UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 800 Series SHE68T55UC
$1000
79
125
CU Recommended Bosch 800 Series SHX68T55UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 800 Series SHE68T55UC
$1000
79
125
CU Recommended GE Profile PDT750SSFSS see here $1100
79
140
CU Recommended Blomberg DWT55300SS see here $850
79
130
CU Best Buy GE Profile PDT760SSFSS see here $1500
78
140
CU Best Buy Blomberg DWT54100SS see here $750
78
85
CU Best Buy Thermador Emerald Series DWHD440MFM see here $1300
78
130
CU Best Buy KitchenAid Architect Series II KDTE554CSS see here $1600
78
145
CU Best Buy Kenmore 1328[3] see here $650
77
120
CU Best Buy Kenmore 1304[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: Kenmore 1328[3]
$550
77
120
CU Best Buy Kenmore 1327[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: Kenmore 1328[3]
$500
77
120
CU Best Buy GE Cafe CDT725SSFSS see here $1000
77
145
CU Best Buy GE GDT720SSFSS see here
Similar to tested model: GE Cafe CDT725SSFSS
$1000
77
145
CU Best Buy Frigidaire Gallery FGHD2472PF see here $700
77
130
CU Best Buy GE GDF540HMFES see here $600
77
155
CU Best Buy GE GDT580SSFSS see here $800
76
155
CU Best Buy Thermador DWHD651JFP see here $2200
76
120
CU Best Buy Thermador DWHD651JFM see here
Similar to tested model: Thermador DWHD651JFP
$2200
76
120
CU Best Buy KitchenAid KUDE70FX[SS] see here $1600
76
115
CU Best Buy KitchenAid KUDE60HX[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: KitchenAid KUDE70FX[SS]
$1600
76
115
CU Best Buy Maytag MDB8959SBS see here $800
75
115
CU Best Buy KitchenAid KUDS30SX[SS] see here $950
75
115
CU Best Buy Bosch 800 Plus Series SHE9PT55UC see here $1950
75
130
CU Best Buy Bosch 800 Plus Series SHV9PT53UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 800 Plus Series SHE9PT55UC
$1800
75
130
CU Best Buy Bosch 800 Plus Series SHX9PT55UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch 800 Plus Series SHE9PT55UC
$1900
75
130
CU Best Buy LG LDS5040ST see here $700
75
110
CU Best Buy Samsung DW80F800UWS see here $800
75
140
CU Best Buy GE GDT550HSDSS see here $650
74
155
CU Best Buy Kenmore 15693 see here $850
74
130
CU Best Buy Miele Futura Crystal G5105SC see here
Discontinued
$1530
74
145
CU Best Buy Miele Futura Crystal G5225SC see here
Similar to tested model: Miele Futura Crystal G5105SC
$1400
74
145
CU Best Buy Miele Futura Crystal G5285SCVi see here
Similar to tested model: Miele Futura Crystal G5105SC
$1400
74
145
CU Best Buy Kenmore Elite 1396[3] see here $1000
73
135
CU Best Buy LG LDF7551[ST] see here $900
72
145
CU Best Buy LG LDF7561[ST] see here
Similar to tested model: LG LDF7551[ST]
$1000
72
145
CU Best Buy LG LDF8072[ST] see here $1100
72
145
CU Best Buy Samsung DMT800RH[W] see here $750
72
120
CU Best Buy LG LDS5540ST see here $800
71
145
CU Best Buy Dacor Renaissance RDW24S see here $1700
71
150
CU Best Buy Dacor Distinctive DDW24S see here
Similar to tested model: Dacor Renaissance RDW24S
$1260
71
150
CU Best Buy GE GDWT668V[SS] see here $800
70
135
CU Best Buy GE GDWT308V[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: GE GDWT668V[SS]
$600
70
135
CU Best Buy GE GDWT608V[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: GE GDWT668V[SS]
$620
70
135
CU Best Buy KitchenAid KUDS30FX[SS] see here $850
70
115
CU Best Buy KitchenAid KUDC10FX[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: KitchenAid KUDS30FX[SS]
$750
70
115
CU Best Buy KitchenAid KUDC10IX[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: KitchenAid KUDS30FX[SS]
$700
70
115
CU Best Buy KitchenAid KUDS30IX[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: KitchenAid KUDS30FX[SS]
$800
70
115
CU Best Buy Miele Futura Classic G4205SC see here
Discontinued
$1000
70
145
CU Best Buy Miele Futura Classic G4225SCSS see here
Similar to tested model: Miele Futura Classic G4205SC
$1100
70
145
CU Best Buy Miele Futura Classic G4281SCVi see here
Similar to tested model: Miele Futura Classic G4205SC
$1100
70
145
CU Best Buy Miele Futura Classic G4286SCSF see here
Similar to tested model: Miele Futura Classic G4205SC
$1300
70
145
CU Best Buy Asko D5894XXL[HS] see here $2400
69
130
CU Best Buy Asko D5654XXL[HS] see here
Similar to tested model: Asko D5894XXL[HS]
$1800
69
130
CU Best Buy GE GDF520PSD[SS] see here $500
69
150
CU Best Buy GE GDF510PGD[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: GE GDF520PSD[SS]
$350
69
150
CU Best Buy GE GDF510PMD[SA] see here
Similar to tested model: GE GDF520PSD[SS]
$450
69
150
CU Best Buy GE GDF510PSD[SS] see here
Similar to tested model: GE GDF520PSD[SS]
$450
69
150
CU Best Buy GE GDF520PGD[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: GE GDF520PSD[SS]
$400
69
150
CU Best Buy GE GDT530PSD[SS] see here
Similar to tested model: GE GDF520PSD[SS]
$550
69
150
CU Best Buy Asko D5634XXL[HS] see here $1350
68
150
CU Best Buy Asko D5434XXL[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: Asko D5634XXL[HS]
$1000
68
150
CU Best Buy Whirlpool Gold WDT770PAY[M] see here $700
68
115
CU Best Buy Miele Futura Diamond G5975SCSF see here $2700
67
130
CU Best Buy Miele Futura Diamond G5915SCi see here
Similar to tested model: Miele Futura Diamond G5975SCSF
$2500
67
130
CU Best Buy Frigidaire Gallery FGHD2465N[F] see here $600
66
130
CU Best Buy Frigidaire Professional FPHD2485N[F] see here
Similar to tested model: Frigidaire Gallery FGHD2465N[F]
$700
66
130
CU Best Buy Jenn-Air Trifecta JDB8700AW[P] see here $1550
66
170
CU Best Buy Frigidaire Gallery FGBD2431K[W] see here $350
66
155
CU Best Buy GE Artistry ADT521PGFBS see here $500
66
155
CU Best Buy Scholtes LFDS3XL60HZ see here $1400
66
105
CU Best Buy Frigidaire Gallery FGBD2445N[F] see here $550
65
120
CU Best Buy Kenmore 1326[3] see here $750
65
130
CU Best Buy Kenmore 1325[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: Kenmore 1326[3]
$520
65
130
CU Best Buy Kenmore 1329[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: Kenmore 1326[3]
$570
65
130
CU Best Buy Smeg STA8614XU see here $1000
65
120
CU Best Buy LG LDS5560ST see here $800
65
165
CU Best Buy Bosch Ascenta DLX SHX4AT75UC see here $700
64
120
CU Best Buy Bosch Ascenta SHX4AT55UC see here
Similar to tested model: Bosch Ascenta DLX SHX4AT75UC
$700
64
120
CU Best Buy Whirlpool WDL785SAAM see here $875
64
135
CU Best Buy Maytag MDB4709PA[M] see here $550
64
105
CU Best Buy Maytag MDB6769PA[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: Maytag MDB4709PA[M]
$600
64
105
CU Best Buy Whirlpool Gold WDF530PAY[W] see here $440
63
105
CU Best Buy Whirlpool Gold WDT710PAY[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: Whirlpool Gold WDF530PAY[W]
$510
63
105
CU Best Buy KitchenAid KDTE104DSS see here $900
63
135
CU Best Buy KitchenAid KDFE104DSS see here
Similar to tested model: KitchenAid KDTE104DSS
$800
63
135
CU Best Buy KitchenAid KDTE204DSS see here
Similar to tested model: KitchenAid KDTE104DSS
$1000
63
135
CU Best Buy GE Monogram ZBD9900R[II] see here $1800
62
180
CU Best Buy Samsung DW7933LRA[SR] see here $600
62
150
CU Best Buy Jenn-Air Trifecta JDB8200AW[S] see here $1200
61
170
CU Best Buy Whirlpool Gold WDF730PAY[M] see here $600
61
115
CU Best Buy Viking Professional VDB451[SS] see here $1950
61
205
CU Best Buy Viking FDB451 see here
Similar to tested model: Viking Professional VDB451[SS]
$1800
61
205
CU Best Buy Samsung DMT300RF[W] see here $500
60
170
CU Best Buy Frigidaire Professional FPHD2491K[F] see here $650
60
180
CU Best Buy Electrolux Wave-Touch EWDW6505G[S] see here $1200
59
135
CU Best Buy Jenn-Air JDB3200AW[W] see here $1100
59
125
CU Best Buy Maytag MDB4409PA[W] see here $380
58
115
CU Best Buy Electrolux IQ EIDW5905J[S] see here $1000
57
90
CU Best Buy Frigidaire Gallery FGBD2438PF see here $500
57
130
CU Best Buy Fagor LFA-086XL see here $1300
55
120
CU Best Buy Frigidaire Gallery FGBD2434PF see here $400
55
125
CU Best Buy Amana ADB1100AWW see here $300
54
160
CU Best Buy Electrolux Icon EDW7505HP[S] see here $1400
54
125
CU Best Buy Blomberg DWT57500[SS] see here $1000
53
125
CU Best Buy Frigidaire FFBD2409L[S] see here $380
52
125
CU Best Buy Summit DW2432SS see here $650
48
110
CU Best Buy Haier DWL3225SD[SS] see here $480
45
120
CU Best Buy Haier DWL2825DD[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: Haier DWL3225SD[SS]
$430
45
120
CU Best Buy Haier DWL7075MC[SS] see here $750
44
120
CU Best Buy Haier DWL4035MC[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: Haier DWL7075MC[SS]
$680
44
120
CU Best Buy Viking Professional VDB450E[SS] see here
Discontinued
$1800
44
170
CU Best Buy Viking Designer Series DFB450E see here
Similar to tested model: Viking Professional VDB450E[SS]
$1650
44
170
CU Best Buy Blomberg DWT55100[SS] see here $850
44
125
CU Best Buy Kenmore 15112 see here $300
43
110
CU Best Buy Whirlpool Gold WDT910SAY[M] see here $800
43
125
CU Best Buy Whirlpool Gold WDF750SAY[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: Whirlpool Gold WDT910SAY[M]
$700
43
125
CU Best Buy Whirlpool Gold WDT790SAY[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: Whirlpool Gold WDT910SAY[M]
$750
43
125
CU Best Buy Blomberg DWT24100[SS] see here $600
43
110
CU Best Buy Ikea Renlig 802.222.43 see here $500
43
120
CU Best Buy Hotpoint HDA3600DWW see here $380
38
110
CU Best Buy Whirlpool WDF310PAA[W] see here $350
35
115
CU Best Buy Whirlpool WDF310PCA[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: Whirlpool WDF310PAA[W]
$400
35
115
CU Best Buy Whirlpool WDF310PLA[ ] see here
Similar to tested model: Whirlpool WDF310PAA[W]
$330
35
115
CU Best Buy Frigidaire FBD2400KS see here $310
34
90
CU Best Buy Amana ADB1400PY[S] see here $380
34
115
CU Best Buy Amana ADB1000AWW see here $260
23
80
CU Dont Buy Fagor LFA-65SS see here $1000
NA NA NA NA 0
Dishwasher drawers overall score
CU Best Buy Fisher & Paykel DD24DCTX7 see here $1300
66
110

Mythreedogs,

Next time, it would be better to link to the page.

Consumer Reports is baised toward the adequate, i.e., does an okay job for the best price.

CTYCDM, Since you're open to other brands, why not get the one you like best but panel ready and have a black front with the kind of handle you'd prefer on it?

I have a custom panel to match my cabinetry, which luckily wasn't too hard to change over to the new DW.

Linking would be tough since not everyone has a CR description. Of course, it is not difficult to figure out how to get free access to the website (I check it all the time without a subscription).

That said I agree with the prevalent opinion here that CR is useless. The fact that they rating Bosch's cheapo "Ascenta" series higher than their higher end models proves plllog's point. Plus they have a tendency to give the same machines with different brand stickers on them completely different ratings, as often happens with Kenmore and Whirlpool (for some reason, Kenmore usually seems to win).

plllog, I would have done that, but I would have to have remained logged into the site, as one has to pay for the 'subscription' to it.

Thanks for that input, my3dogs. As mentioned, unless you are a CR subscriber, or an "Internet Geek", chances are you could not have read that info.

My CR subscription expired, but I was interested in "Their Take" on a certain appliance, (Can't recall what it was now), but it was "Just easier" for me to renew my CR subscription than to get "Geekey"!!!!

Having said that, along with the thanks for posting it, "To me", (and having gone thru all the "shots" at CR), I post the actual reviews of appliances by CR readers, which most folks here seem to "Swallow" better than "CR's take" on some appliance.

Folks don't like it here when they spend a lotta money on an appliance and CR does not "Bless it" due to the fact that an appliance that costs less money, "Might do", ~~~just as good a job as the more expensive one or even better, (In some cases).

Myself, I had no budget when we redid our kitchen, but if something cost more, I wanted to know why and it actually had to be better, (at least to me, in REAL, not "Marketing slogan Terms").

Such was the case with the Miele dishwasher. At the time, it was the only DW with the 3rd rack for silverware, and it was a "Must Have"! Fast Forward 8 years, We still love our trouble free Miele, DW, (but to tell the truth, it does see little use)~~~~couple times a month, ~~at Most.

I do agree that "A better way" would be to "panel it" and get the handle that you want. That is what we did with our built in Jenn-air Fridge~~~~~we wanted its handles to match the Electrolux, Oven, Speed Oven and Wine Cooler fridge~~~~~~sooooo~~~~~we called Electrolux and bought their fridge handles~~~that "match perfectly" and they were not that expensive, (as I recall).

Gary

This post was edited by dodge59 on Tue, May 13, 14 at 22:35

Gary,

If CR really did what you say, and just poke the pretensions of something that costs more because it's prettier or something, without added function, or if a lower price model actually works better, I would have no trouble with it. If you read what they say about their own principles, however, they'll say the same thing I did, only perhaps in sweeter terms. The number one criterion they have is money. The lowest price for baseline functionality, and lowest repair/maintenance cost (which usually means the lowest need for same). It's useful! But it doesn't tell the whole story. Most people I've met who are making major purchases are looking for more than just lowest price. They also want the item that fulfills their desires. They go to CR looking to make sure the item they're looking at isn't a lemon, and end up disappointed because either it wasn't included at all, or it gets a low ranking just because it cost a little more for the features that the consumer in question found most appealing but CR determined to be unnecessary for their baseline.

I think it's as important to educate people in the limits of CR as it is to teach them about the limited utility of some of those extra features.

Meantime, apologies, My3dogs, I didn't realize that it wasn't public. I haven't had to tech weenie my way in, but I seem to be able to view CR.

CTYDDM, another thing to keep in mind if you haven't used a newer dishwasher is that they run very differently. They're designed to save water and energy, so they take a couple of hours to run. If you do want a heated dry, it's an optional cycle on an American machine. It's not available on European machines.

The standard drying method requires the mass of a steel interior and the mass of your pans and crockery (they promote putting the pots in the DW not just to show off their power, but because you need the mass), to retain the heat from the wash/rinse. That heat, combined with the cooling air, creates convection (air movement) and evaporation. There may also be a fan to help move the evaporating moisture out of the machine. Rinse aid (Jet Dry) is required to make this work well. The "sheeting action" is a surfactant (aka soap) which is designed to coat the dishes and break the surface tension of the rinse water, making it fall off instead of clinging. This method actually does work well, especially if you have a lot of big dishes, metal flatware and pots. If you have mostly small dishes, thin glasses, and plastics, it doesn't work nearly as well.

The detergents are different, too, and what worked, even of the new detergents, in your old DW, might not be as good in the new. The most popular and best rated seems to be Finish Quantum with Powerball tabs. I don't have such dirty dishes, and prefer Method Smarty Dish tabs, which have less oomph, but are probably better for the environment, and adequate for my loads.

Thermador is not an outlier brand for a range, ovens etc., of course. And it's great that the experience with it has been good.

But it's not a brand that immediately comes to mind for a dishwasher. But it's not my purchase.

OK, thanks for the update on CR, Pillog.

I do agree it is only "one source of Info", that may or not be useful in making appliance buying decisions. I put more "Stock" in how CR readers review the products, than "Official Takes" of a product by CR.

Several times, I've seen CR "Officially Rate" an appliance very high, and then you look at the CR reader reviews and in some cases, it is a complete opposite of how CR rated it, (particularly reliability).

I use CR to look for "Trends", problems with certain appliances, but it is only one source, I read here (GW), Epinions, Fixya, Chowhound, etc and so far, all have helped me make good decisions buying reliable appliances.

The one appliance that I did not research, (It was "purely" a form over function decision), really "Bit Me in the part that went over the fence last"!!!!! That POJ landed in the dump in less than 2 years!

Gary

Gary, that sounds like a thorough and wise research method. Lots of sources, opinions from people who actually live with the things, etc.

Regarding the opposite of the CR rating, CR usually only rates things that are mass produced. I fell bad for the people who think that least problems under testing circumstances means they won't have any problems, but if there are fifty complaints about a model that moves 40,000 units in a year, it's still a drop in the bucket. More telling is the ease with which they can get resolution.

It's too bad they don't teach consumerism in the schools. We were taught how to understand advertising, junk research/statistics, quality standards, etc., but it was considered "experimental" and "hippie". It seems to me it should be part of home ec., or even environmental science (though that would be more on the waste side of things), but that's out of favor too. We were given some junky things to do in Home Ec., but I also learned a lot of useful stuff.

OP here with follow up.... My appliance guy informed me there is one KA model that is available with a Pro Handle. (the KA's "Architect" handle is just so wrong for our kitchen) This Pro handle option did not show up on my search of KA's website, so kudos to my local brick and mortar store!
Looks like we'll be getting the KDTE404DSP, doesn't come in black, but will settle for stainless with a handle that at least somewhat resembles my Bluestar. So now I get function and some of the form I wanted :)
Thanks to all for responding, your posts were helpful in guiding my decision!

I WOULD NOT BUY ANOTHER VIKING DISHWASHER! We have an 18-month old Viking Professional Dishwasher - expensive, high-end, etc. - and we have had nothing but problems. We have had maybe 8 service calls in that time. After the last service, our kitchen floor was flooded. We haven't had a working dishwasher for a month. We don't have any faith in Viking, they don't stand behind their product. It is obviously a lemon, yet Viking REFUSES to give us a new dishwasher, instead, they keep telling the service company to order more and more parts and to keep trying to repair it - 4 guys have been here and it still doesn't work. Viking customer service won't let you speak to supervisors, they just give customers the run around. We should have bought a Bosch.

I came here to steer you away from the Viking VDB451. You're right that the drawers are solid and the machine is very attractive. Unfortunately, it does not work well. (Mine, about six months old now, doesn't work at all anymore.) When it did work, it did a decent job of cleaning (better than Viking's earlier model which leaked constantly due to a faulty design). However, the cycle took over 3 hours to run, which was a problem for me as we frequently do two loads a day -- an afternoon and an evening load -- and it often wasn't ready after dinner to re-load.

In comparison, we installed Bosch dishwashers into our two prior homes and they were always problem-free (they stayed with the homes when we sold). I have also been told Bosch makes Thermador, in which case i'd recommend the product. (A decent sales guy should be able to confirm that for you.) The Bosch is also a tad quieter than the Viking. Actually, my current Viking is completely silent, but that's because it's not working. :-(

As a last thought, you might look at the Asko. It has similarly sturdy-seeming drawers as the Viking, and can also be installed with a large round bar that should match your kitchen. We decided to replace the Viking with the Asko, but if it ends up being a lemon, we will probably go back to Bosch.