This is the upper she recently sent.

I had made revisions to the original upper floor she sent but evidently she didn't get that part of the message. Here's the revision I tried to do to her other upper floor plan which is similar.

Front exterior

Back exterior

The way to solve your master bed window issue is to move your bathroom/close up there and put your bedroom where it can have a window on 2 sides... What is next to the house in that side?

Re: the "tunnel" entry. There is nothing the matter with having a definite transition from the outdoors to the indoors in the form of a hallway or vestibule. If yours was 3 feet wide, then it would be a tunnel. This isn't. It seems to be popular to dump everyone right from the front door into a living space, but that's not really a proper sense of entry.

There is a lot of space wasted on hallways to the master bedroom and that room to the front right, though. Going through the mudroom to that front right room is odd. Try the door into that room in the entry hall.

I agree, there is no place to put furniture in the living room.

I think the position of the stairs really limits the plan and complicates the layout upstairs and down. I would try the stairs where the powder room/closet area is over on the right.

I don't understand the upstairs in either plan at all. Why are you walking through one bathroom to get to another bathroom?

Lots of wasted space with that upper central hall. Why isn't one of the upstairs bathrooms there?

The revision of the upstairs is really a mess. The left bedroom is much too large and the right bedroom will feel really unpleasant to be in with that jutting angle. And again the walking through a bathroom to get to a bathroom.

I am not trying to be harsh, but this plan really has a long way to go before it will be a nice house to live in.

Could you post your list of wants/needs and your three favorite plans? I'd make suggestions but your list sounds pretty specific and I'd like to see what you're looking for in a plan.

Kirkhall - The house will be in the middle of fields and trees so I was mainly just concerned about privacy if anyone was standing on the front porch. Not sure I would want the masterbath up there either. LOL But there really isn't much choice is there? Any pros and cons as to which room you would have up front?

The master end will have a walk out basement.

palimpesest - The room to the right is our homeschool room/library. She called it a classroom. I had said I wanted to access that room from the kitchen so I'm sure that's why she put the door there by the mudroom area.

I agree the stairs are in the way but I don't know how to fix that.

The upstairs will be for our kids. Right now we have 4 girls and 1 boy, hence the one bedroom being larger than the other. The bathroom is supposed to be where you walk in the first room and it's a sink with large counter then through a door to the tub/toilet area with another smaller sink. I don't know why she put a second toilet in the first room. That's weird to me.

I also wanted a small laundry room upstairs so I was trying to get that in there. I'm not sure what the jutting angle is that you are talking about. I just did it real quick in my paint program so maybe my lines aren't perfectly straight. ??

Do you mean put the stairs *in place* of the powder room or beside it? If beside it would that make the living room too narrow? If in place of then where would we put the powder room? I would love ideas on how to make it work.

Thanks!

SF - no bigger than 2800 but would like as cost efficient as possible.
Kitchen - Looking for 15'-16' wide for the layout I like
-sink at a window
-island
-eating area close by
-school room not far
-open somewhat to living room

Foyer - Not looking directly into living room but not closed off and a tunnel either.
-coat closet

Living room - Like it about 18' wide with a walk through space on one side, not walking through the middle.
-on back side of home so we can see the backyard

Half bath - access from a back door easily for kids playing in and out.

Mudroom - Lots of space for hats, coats, boots, shoes, jackets for at least 7 people that we currently have in our family.

Laundry - would like it near the master bedroom but that's not a deal breaker.
-like a laundry room and not a closet

Master - on main level
-bedroom big enough for king bed but doesn't have to be a huge room.
-mbath large shower and a separate tub.
-one sink is fine

Kids bedrooms - one large and one small or two mediums and one small.

Kids bathrooms - one bath with a separate room for vanity and then a room for toilet/shower with another sink

Laundry upstairs - could be a laundry closet in the hall but a room is nice.

attached garage - big enough for a 15 passenger van to fit and another vehicle. So probably 26x28 at the smallest.

Closets - I would like at least one closet for games, toys and school stuff near the living room.
-closet near the dining area to keep the vacuum, brooms and such.

I would love a small room that's about 10x8 for a music room but I don't think there is room in that square footage so we nixed that idea. I originally had the music room off the foyer as I thought it could double as a more formal living area. Now the master is up there and I'm not sure if I like that or not.

tammyte-no advice here except to second the 'no place to put living room furniture' comment. I am currently living with a space similar to that with the walk way right smack through the middle of it and it drives me bonkers. The furniture actually looks fine in it but when it's occupied it's very awkward and spaced out enough that it's not at all comfortable for having a conversation unless you are on the same couch! It's almost like it's 2 separate rooms but no way to really lay it out that way. I hope you can find a work around for it. Wonder if you slid the stairs back and the entry to the laundry closet forward then you wouldn't have that extra entry point in the back. I'm no expert though. Good luck!

Is the back first floor living space vaulted? With your wishlist and space constraints I don't think I would waste the volume on that, I would want more room upstairs even if it was dormered spaces in the back.

You are going to need more bedrooms for five kids than two, even if they are interconnected. Four girls in one room in a 2800 square foot house isn't really necessary. I don't know for how long they will embrace that much togetherness.

I don't know that it's vaulted. It looks like she has a doorway accessing attic space or future room space. As for the girls sharing a room, it's not going to kill them to sleep in the same room. They'll survive. ;-)

You asked for slightly better flow... what if you tucked your large mudroom behind the kitchen. This would give you extra space for a possible better stair placement. The side entry porch would be the entry point for kids going in/out or needing the bathroom. I did a quick sketch in SweetHome to give you an idea of what I am thinking. I don't know a better placement for your stairs but maybe this will spark some ideas for you or others.

The general idea of building a custom house is to build one that's pleasantly livable. So far this one ---isn't. But good luck, you seem to know what you want.

I moved the stairs to a more central location to help the traffic flow around the house.Still not sure how to open up the entry, maybe with double doors to the library/school room it would feel more open?

The closet is a little far away from the master too, but I think the laundry placement would work well. I really liked the idea of having the side porch, too, but not quite sure how to fit that in.

The upstairs bedrooms seem large to me, but not sure what sizes you were looking for. Direct access from the girls' room to the bathroom would be nice.

Total square feet for this plan is 2850.

The correct way to design a home with a "dormitory" type bedroom that is expected to house multiple children is to make it into a large "second master" type bedroom with larger multi compartmentalized bath attached. That will give it better function and resale. The dorm bedroom actually does need to be larger than most masters to be able to house 4 children in it. If you split the kids up into 2,2, and 1, that would work better for a "traditional" family home for both planning and resale.

What you have is strange and dysfunctional from both your stated aims, and certainly from a resale standpoint. The upstairs baths are especially egregioius in offending.

You need more than a home designer here. You need an actual architect to design something custom for you, because tweaking totally isn't working. I suspect the architect just didn't want the job. Try for another meeting with an architect, and this time try just presenting him with a list of the things that you want in a plan without any examples and let him do the job he's trained to do.

I think your shower is over-proportioned. Reaching around the corner created by the sink to clean the big master tub will be difficult.

I kind of agree about the entryway being something of a bowling alley. How about cutting an shallow alcove into the bedroom (you can afford the space) for a shallow hall table or bench? That'd give you something to see in that long, narrow area and it'd feel less empty.

I agree that you have no obvious living room furniture placement spots. Having lived in a house with this problem, it's not something to overlook at say, "Oh, it'll work out."

I'd try to get the 'fridge out of the corner. The wall will prevent it from opening all the way.

I'd go with an L-shaped cabinet formation and expand the pantry to that whole wall. Pantries are much, much cheaper than cabinets, and no one's going to work in that back corner anyway (with his or her back to the window light and the action). You have plenty of cabinet space without that useless back corner.

Nick360, I like your plan!

Wow. There are lots of great ideas and suggestions here. Thank you all so much! :)

As for resale and such, we have bought and sold so many homes over the years and constantly worried about resale value. This is *supposed* to be our forever home. I know that plans can always change but we really just want to do what works for our family and not worry about resale.

Dreamhome - I like what you are thinking there. I'll have to take a look closer in a bit and see if it will help in the long run.

nicke360 - That does look like a good plan overall. The only major thing I see is the powder room is off the foyer and I was hoping to get it to be more of a back door sort of thing. Not sure if I listed that or not. LOL

I could be wrong but I truly believe that the architect was sincere. We tried to leave several times during the meeting (out of courtesy to his time since it was a free consult) and he continued talking. He and my dh had a lot in common. His wife taught school in our county for years. Lots of things in common between families. It was a very nice meeting and he seemed to me more like a father-figure genuinely trying to help us out.

I had shown him a plan I liked except for a few things. He was thinking we would start with that plan and have this designer tweak it. Well, she wanted to start with "a fresh set of eyes" to see if maybe she could do better. So far I don't think it's working. I just don't know if she can tweak the plan I liked and make the rooflines work. I am going to ask her about that I think. The only major thing that plan is lacking (if all the tweaks work out the way I would like) is the kitchen is on the inside of the house and doesn't have any direct windows. I would hope lighting to fix that though.

Here's the main level with some of my thoughts. I am hoping we could move the left wall of the main house (dining/kitchen/nook) over to the left another 3 feet. And would also like to make the garage/mudroom bigger. The garage mudroom is the part I don't know about because I am unsure of the rooflines and how that all works.

This has a longer, narrow foyer but with the stairs in it I think it wouldn't seem like too much of a tunnel. It has the music room too. If we can move the wall 3' over then I wouldn't need the nook area extended out the back because we would have plenty of space for the table area. I was hoping to extend the garage/mudroom to where it would be even with the back of the house then I could do more with the half bath back there. It wasn't working in that small of a space.

Here's the upstairs with changes. I need to see what the total sf would be though. I think I might be at more like 2900. I wish we could move that main level wall over 3 feet and not move the upstairs. Anyone think that is possible?

Oh and I realize that I forgot to add a closet to the smaller bedroom. I'm sure we could fit one in there though.

I just worked on a plan. I canNOT figure out roof lines to save my life but I got this as close as I could. Would love suggestions.

Here is the upstairs.

I like this last plan, much better than your earlier 'designer' version. Why can't you move the wall over 3'? It would give you the space you need in the dining areas and more room for the kitchen island.

For the upstairs, have you thought about bigger dormers? WIth wider dormers, you'd have more light and more room for a window seat. Also, if you make the left side 3' larger (like dining room/kitchen) could you move the bathroom to the back...over the kitchen? This would give you move privacy over the master and the chance to do a taller ceiling :)

Also, I like your half bath/mud room area! Maybe put a bench with hooks against the garage wall (where you have the powder room) and flip the powder room to the outside wall (by the door to the back) so you have a window in the bath. The area at the end of that little hall (between powder room and bench) could be more storage or a walk in pantry.

Lavender - I think we were posting at the same time. :)

Putting closets in the downstairs rooms makes them qualify as bedrooms. Are you on a septic system? If so, it will need to be sized accordingly. Having these rooms qualify as bedrooms is better for resale, but you need to have a hall full bathroom rather than just a half bathroom downstairs. That would work well if you have guests or if one of the children have a medical issue which makes using the stairs difficult for a period of time.

If the money is there I would like to turn the half bath into a 3/4 by adding a shower using some space from the storage area in the garage. If anything, it's a possibility to add later. :)

I like nicke's plan.

Your latest plan, however, has a lot of wasted space upstairs--likely due to your inability to figure out rooflines...

But aside from that, you don't need a laundry *room* as you've drawn it upstairs. By putting the wall in across the front, you've made them unnecessarily cramped. You could instead have it be a "closet" if you need them closed off at all from the bathroom. (As is, you essentially have double hallway space. And, because you've put a door and not bifolds or something, you have a fixed wall that can't move out of the way to allow someone to walk past a basket on the floor, etc. If, you had bifolds or similar, at least then, the basket infront of the machine wouldn't take up all the space. kwim?)

Maybe try to work off of nicke's plan? You can even add a toilet in the upstairs laundry room by using some of the extra large closet space on that end... If you don't like the 1/2 bath off the foyer, it wouldn't be difficult to have the wic of the mudroom be a 1/2 bath and then you have your additional closet space off the foyer...

I really like nicke360's plan also.

If you need more storage, the wall in dining area could easily have pantry cabinets, etc.

I also agree with kirkhall on the switching of WIC by mudroom and 1/2 bath would be an easy fix.

Good luck!

I sent her the plans I was trying to work on and she did them with roof lines that actually worked. LOL I would love to get some thoughts on them.

Some things I was thinking of emailing to her:

Upstairs
-I think I would like no door from the hall entrance to the bath and then make the tub area have a pocket door. One would fit pocketing toward the sink side right?
-Should the toilet in the water closet be moved to the opposite wall to get the plumbing closer or does it matter that much?
- I know I am trying to keep sf down but do you think it would cost us much to steel some space in the attic for a bigger closet for the girl bedroom? There are 4 of them ya know. ;-)

Downstairs
-I remember my husband saying he specifically wants the closets to be 6' wide. Can we take some from the master bath?
-Is there anyway to move the entire master section back about 3 feet? Not sure how that works for the exterior. I was wanting about 3 feet behind that bedroom door.
-Would like a prep sink in the island.

This seems like a simple plan to build except for the dormers. Should I try to make sure the measurements are in certain increments to make it even easier with not making so many cuts on drywall or 2x6's? If so, how would I do that?

Also, how big of a space can we have downstairs with no walls? (The living room)

You don't need 6 foot closets if you intend to have the rods on adjoining walls, instead of opposite walls. The 6 foot minimum dimension is important for a walking "hall" between the clothes on rods on opposite walls. So, I would say, I'd talk more with your DH on his "requirement" for 6 foot closets.

You need to get away from in-swing doors on small spaces--your master toilet. That one needs to be an outswing or pocket, imo, for safety.

You need to remember, wherever you put a pocket door, it will limit what you can attach to the wall (essentially nothing). So, for example, in your master closets, you'll need to attach those rods/shelves that meet the pocket wall to the back wall, not the pocket wall. In the powder room in the mudroom, you'll not be able to attach anything to the wall between the closet and sink (including light switches). In this area, specifically, can you rotate the powder so it is along the garage wall instead of along the outside wall? I think you'll get more usable space in the mudroom doing this.

Some thoughts for now.

Thanks. Yes, dh was thinking "hall" type closets. Would one give us more efficient storage than the other in this case?

I will go through the house and think about each pocket door. Thank you.

I changed the mudroom to see what you were talking about. I was just wanting a window in the half bath was the reason I had it on the exterior wall. Is this what you meant?

I am hoping to recess the fridge a bit but not sure how to make that work with the garage wall right there behind it. If we are able to do that do you think if I put a wall by the fridge I could put light switches there? I wouldn't want to go all the way to the front of the fridge because of door clearance right? Would that look okay?

Foyer - Right now she has a sidelight to the left of the front door. I read somewhere that it wasn't a good idea to have a long window like that beside the door handle. Easy break in. Would it be weird to move the door to the left and have a sidelight on the right side? I'm not sure how it lines up with the dormer above. I'll post the exterior pics. I'm also unsure of window sizes for the front. The house will face NE and have a porch so we would like plenty of windows but don't want to take up usable space inside either.

Where would you put light switches in the foyer? I was thinking to the left of the door beside where it opens. Only other spot would be on the right wall up past the end of the door but I was considering a pocket door there to keep both walls usable for some school items.

Nope, that isn't what I meant. Turn it 90* and put it at the "end" of the mudroom.

eta--
Though, for me, I would choose option 2 on mudroom layout than option 1. I think you'll like the window in the mudroom more than the powderroom. You can use an obscured glass pocket door on the PR door to let some of that light in. But, in option 2, I would appreciate the light in the mudroom directly (since it is a smallish space to start with).

This post was edited by kirkhall on Tue, Jun 4, 13 at 19:08

Oh okay. I tried turning it 90* here. I don't think I want a window on the back wall of the mudroom unless it's a high one that is long and skinny above the coat hooks and such. If I switch the toilet and sink I could put a window in the bathroom this way. It would let light into the mudroom as long as the door was open which would be a lot of the time.

I had the toilet and sink this way because I figured if someone was using the toilet quickly with the door open they would have more privacy from someone barging in from the garage entry door. I can't remember the last time I was able to use the bathroom with the door closed. LOL So I'm really torn as to which way to put the toilet and sink.

Well, as for an open feel and more usable area, this last one is your better bet. Anytime you can get a "square" room and not a hallway, you are better off, imo. I like this last option.