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jenmna

Handmade tile backsplash questions

17 years ago

Hi all,

I usually hang out on the kitchen forum, but this forum has way more information about tiling, so I thought I'd post this question here. We're tiling our kitchen backsplash with handmade tiles (mostly seconds) in 4x4, 2x2 and 2x4 inch sizes. There is currently sheet rock in the backsplash area. I'd like to do the job myself if possible and have been doing some reading about tiling. However, I have some questions.

Can I (should I) tile right onto the sheetrock? Should I apply backerboard over the sheetrock?

My DH works for our local ReStore and they have a large quantity of Mapei "Premixed Adhesive and Grout" for a low price. I know I was reading in Bill's FAQ that he doesn't recommend premixed adhesive for most applications, but I was wondering if it would work for this one. I'm only interested in using as an adhesive (thinset?) because it isn't the color I'd choose for the grout. I'd buy the grout new at Menards and get a sanded grout in a gray/beige color. (I'd like to support the ReStore as much as possible, but I'm willing to go buy something else if it really won't work well).

Also, I'm trying to figure out what to do about spacers. Because the tiles are handmade, they are fairly uneven. Should I use spacers or should I do something like using chalkline to create a grid and center the tiles in the grid? We're going to have pretty large grout lines (probably 1/4 inch or more) and it seems to me that the grout lines will have to be uneven to make the tiles line up correctly. Does that make sense?

Third, many of our tiles are seconds because they were used as displays for discontinued colors. They had been previously mounted to white boards with some kind of silicone adhesive (a clear silicone caulk, perhaps). The tiles still have large, flat "dollops" of this adhesive on the back. When I asked the tile maker about installation, he said that there was enough tile exposed that it shouldn't be a problem to leave most of the silicone on the back during installation. It is clearly very well stuck to the back of the tile (they came off of the white boards with significant difficulty, and only because the white boards were pretty smooth and non-porous). Can I leave the silicone stuff on the tiles or do I need to figure out a way to remove it or "rough it up?"

Sorry about the length and the number of questions! Bill V.'s FAQ was very useful and I've done some additional searching and reading on this forum, but still had these questions.

Thanks for anyone's help!!

Jenmna

Comments (3)

  • 17 years ago

    Mastic can be used as an adhesive in non-wet areas. Your drywall is obviously in good shape, which means by itself it's not being hit by or incurring standing water. You didn't mention and water staining or degradation, so sure, mastic can be used to adhere the tile to it.

    Grid lines: It will most certainly help to add layout lines on the wall. It might help to strike chalk lines, then use a straight edge and sharpie marker to go over those lines. With differing tile sizes, you are correct in that you use the layout grid lines for overall guidance to keep the overall layout looking good, but on a tile-by-tile basis within the grid lines, the tile spacing is adjusted plus-or-minus here and there to keep that overall pattern looking good.

    Regarding uneven tile sizes...you might want to do a rough mock up. Your goal will be to not have a larger-than-normal tiles adjacent to several other larger-than-normal tiles. Several large tiles in a row can really throw the layout off. Same with several smaller-than-normal tiles in a row. That can result in a run of wide grout joints. Try to work out your layout and installation so larger-than-normal and smaller-than-normal tiles are mixed and mingled throughout the layout.

    Mastic usually holds tile pretty well on the wall, it's usually a "no sag" installation unless the tiles are heavy. If you think your tiles might sag, then have a collection of tile spacers and/or tile spikes (spacers shaped like wedges) to prevent sagging. These can be store bought or home made.

    I'd clean off the backs of the tiles. Use a sharp chisel to shave the dollops of silicone off the tile. If you start with crap, you'll end up with crap. Why start with compromised materials?

    If you use the "premixed adhesive" (mastic) to set the tiles, wait several days before grouting. Mastic cures by drying, so it needs air.

    If you use the "premixed grout" which is also a mastic-like material, read the installation and cleanup instructions. It can shrink as it dries, so it might not be the best choice if you have wide grout joints as the excessive shrinkage could result in it pulling away from the tiles.

    If you decide to opt away from the Mapei premixed stuff, see if they have Mapei Kerabond and Mapei Keralastic. That combination gives good working time and good stickiness in terms of minimizing sag.

    Mongo

  • 17 years ago

    Can I (should I) tile right onto the sheetrock?

    Yup.

    Should I apply backerboard over the sheetrock?

    Nope.

    I know I was reading in Bill's FAQ that he doesn't recommend premixed adhesive for most applications, but I was wondering if it would work for this one.

    Okay-- time to get serious. :-) Premixed thinset (or mastic) has a very specific use, and that's for ceramic tile (8x8 or smaller) over sheetrock (or cement board) in dry areas. Under normal circumstances, this would qualify. But you're using a handmade tile, which most oftentimes is notorious for not being flat, which means you'd have to build it up some with the mastic. Not a good idea. In this case, you'd be alot better off with a portland cement based latex modified thinset (Something like Versabond from Home Depot, or Ultraflex II from Mapei)

    Should I use spacers or should I do something like using chalkline to create a grid and center the tiles in the grid? We're going to have pretty large grout lines (probably 1/4 inch or more) and it seems to me that the grout lines will have to be uneven to make the tiles line up correctly. Does that make sense?

    It makes perfect sense. I would suggest going to www.tile-experts.com, and look for a product called "Tile Spikes". The come in assorted sizes, from 1/16" to 1/4", and as the name suggests, they vary from front to back, so you can adjust them as needed. You can also double up spikes if necessary in order to keep it straight. And yes, I would strongly recommend the use of a chalkline.

    Can I leave the silicone stuff on the tiles or do I need to figure out a way to remove it or "rough it up?"

    I'd want to remove it, not because I disagree with what the salesman said about enough area to bond, but more because those "dollups" might end up making the tile stand proud from the rest of the backsplash.

  • 17 years ago

    Thank you for the replies and excellent advice! I'll work on removing the silicone and finding the right supplies for the job.

    Thank you again for your fast replies and great help.

    Jenmna

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