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new construction sub flooring expansion

16 years ago

I puchased a new home in Philadelphia area on may 18 2010. all the final interior trim was installed in the month of april.

I paid the builder a few for rasing all baseboards on the first floor 3/4" for future hardwoods. I removed all the carpeting and started checking clearance. I have measured mostly 5/8" , some smaller and other areas 3/4". But mostly smaller so I can't install the 3/4" hardwood under the baseboards.

The builder tells me they refuse to fix the problem b/c wood skrinks and expand's which is out of their control and not their problem.

Now it cleary states what I paid for 3/4" which i don't have. A carpenter friend told me anyone experienced would have left them 7/8" or more to be safe.

My question is , Is the builder correct telling me the flooring can expand or they just installed them incorrectly? The later is what i think, since they use the cheapest sub's to perform work. Thank you

Comments (13)

  • 16 years ago

    I always ask the trim carpenter to put in the baseboards first. But I leave the trim carpenter a sample of the flooring to be sure and he leaves a bit extra to account for variations, including swelling. This way I can use 1/8 round instead of the big clunky 1/4 round of subdivisions. If the fit is still too snug, the flooring installer will use a jamb saw to make room.


    Jamb saw--also called an undercut saw--is used to correct
    wrongly-spaced baseboards and jambs.

  • 16 years ago

    Builder screwed up.

    The baseboards can be cut with a jamb saw.

  • 16 years ago

    Why would you install the baseboards before installing the flooring?

  • 16 years ago

    Thanks for you input, I am a little bit of a novice in building a home, But I know what I paid for and they have not provided that to me.

    So you think the answer they give about wood variations to wiggle out of fixing it or giving my money back is just standard bull ?

    All I want is what I paid for, nothing more or less. Or just pay me my money back for this option.

    Lastly do you perfer shoe molding over 1/4 round for a cleaner look?

  • 16 years ago

    shoe mould = 1/8th round as referenced by Worthy.

  • 16 years ago

    Should you even install the hardwood under the base moulding? Aren't you going to leave that space for expansion? Then install quarter round or base shoe to cover any gaps?

  • 16 years ago

    High-end homes here often have casings rather than rounds at the junction between floor and baseboard.

    Should you even install the hardwood under the base moulding?

    Theoretically, the covering moulding (quarter rounds or whatever) should cover any gaps. In practice, walls aren't perfectly straight, especially after things have settled in and dried out. You could end up with gaps between the rounds and the flooring. Then what?

    Why would you install the baseboards before installing the flooring?

    I only insist on it with wood flooring. I do it to reduce the chances of damage to the pre-finished flooring. (But then we don't allow shoes in the house after we've moved in either.)

    The trim carpenters I use tell me that's pretty standard, at least in custom homes.

  • 16 years ago

    "Should you even install the hardwood under the base moulding? Aren't you going to leave that space for expansion?"

    Clearance depends on the type of floor being installed.

    Narrow strip hardwood flooring (3 inches and under) barely moves 1/16 of an inch per board.

    The movement occurs on the un-nailed side of every board so it dies not build up over a large span.

    Wider boards need some additional room, but it is still pretty small until you get up to 12+ inch boards.

    The length of hardwood flooring (parallel to the grain) barely moves at all (1% or less).

    Some engineered floors that are installed as 'floating' behave as a very large piece of wood with the only room at the edges. They can need significant gaps .

    Other engineered flooring has counter-plies in the layup, like plywood.

    These need some room (just like plywood) but it is still not very large.

    I would never bother installing baseboard before floors.
    It is just an invitation for things to go wrong, as the OP found out.

  • 16 years ago

    I can't even figure out if this is new construction or a renovation so you guys must be smarter than I.

  • 16 years ago

    This is brand new construction. I settled on the home may 18 of this year. The reason i did not let the builder install flooring is b/c their prices were riduclious. I am doing it for half the amount they wanted.

    I simply told them I wanted the basebords to be raised because i was installed 3/4" solid 3 1/4" prefinished teak flooring.

    I never though in my wildest dreams it would turn into such a mess. The builder as of today refuses to do anything about it even thou I paid them to raise them to account for my flooring.

    I will just take of this issue myself and talk to my attorney general for possible complaint.

  • 16 years ago

    Hindsight,but you would have been better off to have your builder or his/her finish guys come in after you were done with the floor. We always came back and installed after the vinyl or hardwood installers were done. We did have the rooms pre-cut and labeled so that they could be painted when going with paint grade trim, stained with clear grade/finish.

    You are more than likely going to waste more time and enegy as well as costs going with a lawyer on such a small claim. You would probably be better off paying your carpenter friend to come in and either using a jamb saw or a flush cut trim saw, trim the base to the correct height and chalk this one up to "lesson learned".

  • 16 years ago

    You can bet if the builder were putting in the hardwood floor, the gap would have been correct.

    If you bother with the legal route, you have to show losses. See what your flooring guy can do--without mentioning Courts. For various reasons noted above, it may be no big deal at all.

    I've always found that building a home inevitably involves a series of adjustments and corrections.

  • 16 years ago

    cut a few short samples of the finished flooring,(with the paper underlayment) and then get underneath the base with a flat bar and pry it up till the flooring fits underneath..

    Then install the wood floor and re-attach the base with a few more finish nails.

    There are many variables when approaching this type of installation unless you are planning additional trim. If you had panned additional trim, then you should have told him 7/8 minimum.