I'd file the claim if it is significantly over your deductible. That's what insurance is for.

The authorities will determine filing of charges. Will you then "forget" the details if called as a witness? Do you have children and worry about them?

Another example of why I'm not using copper plumbing next go round.

- I'd hold off on the insurance claim until you know how much reinstalling the pipes will cost and compare that to the deductable. May not be worth it.

- I'd definitely file charges against the thief. What he did is just plain wrong. But consider also that this is probably not the first time he's done it. You might consider withdrawing your complaint if he pays your costs in full in advance to have the pipes reinstalled, but I probably wouldn't. IMO, thieves belong in jail, and it's our civic duty to put them there rather than recycling them out to victemize more people.

- I'm not seeing the need for a lawyer yet.

I can't imagine why it wouldn't be to your benefit to file an insurance claim. Your insurance agent should be able to help you decide.

If you have already given the police evidence of a robbery it is probably out of your hands unless you refuse to testify that this person was on your property. However, that is probably not enough evidence by itself to convict so if there is other evidence you might be off the hook. I would want to know more about the thief and any previous history of violence. The police should be able to advise you about that.

Did you find out their names? Can you file a civil case against both of them for damages?

Once I knew their names I'd be hunting down information on them to see where they live, do they have children, where they work, what vehicles they own, what land they own, etc. Does he work for one of the subs and does his boss know he is doing this (you can be sure I'd let the boss know what happened and how badly it reflects on his business).

The more I know about them the less threatening they are and the more power I have to keep them from returning.

I think filing criminal and civil charges sends a much clearer message that your not to be messed with then not doing anything.

First let me say I'm so sorry this happened to you! Confrontation of that manner is unsavory and would have left me sweating with my heart pounding.

In our only experience with "the law" a few years ago in which a babysitter intentionally harmed my daughter, we found something quite comforting that I don't think many people realize. (I'm not a lawyer, this was just our experience) The decision about whether or not to press charges was not ours to make. The prosecutor was the one to take responsibility for that decision, and I would think in most situations that would be the case. Just let the police and the prosecutors do their jobs.

Please don't give these people power over you. They were quite simply breaking the law.

I would think the only reason you would need a lawyer right now is if you pursue a civil suit. I guess I think of this as a criminal case.

Good luck putting this behind you. I'm sure it has left you with an uneasy feeling.

By the way, that babysitter is now a convicted child abuser. So, for us, the system worked. I only wish I didn't have first hand experience with it!!

Amy

Before you get too far down this road, note that the only real crime that you can say they committed is trespassing and perhaps vandalism. You did not see them remove the pipes from the house, nor did they take it off the property.

At the least, get a restraining order ordering them to keep away. And talk to your contractor about security ASAP.

But what exactly can you prove that these people did? No, I doubt that the police will think that pressing charges is even possible. For what? Civil charges? It'll cost you more than the pipe is worth.

Sorry, but that is reality.

I am so sorry for your troubles. That sucks.

I was almost in your shoes a few weeks ago. The only difference is we didn't catch the thief who stole our copper water lines and electric lines.

If I had the opportunity to prosecute the s.o.b. that did this to us you can guarantee I would. I say do whatever it takes to punish the couple. Maybe this will keep them from doing this to somebody else in the future. Besides you already reported them so it might not be your decision anyway.

We filed ours with the insurance because they did over 5000.00 in damage. 1/2 of our drywall was up and it had to be ripped out. I agree w/ the others and would only file if it is substantially over your deductible.

I'm so sorry this happened to you!!!!

Thanks for all the direction...

My builder stated that they will assess the damage and provide me some figures in the coming days.

I'm also hoping that the police can lift some finger prints from the recovered piping, so it's not a his word against mine. (Maybe I just watch too much CSI)

Stealing conveys a complete lack of respect. He might as well have spit in your face. I wouldn't tolerate this behavior. I would have passed on the boys in blue and handled it on the down low. While filing criminal and civil charges sends a much clearer message that your not to be messed with then not doing anything, two snapped wrists expresses the sentiment in an undeniably clear manner and provides a sharp future reminder that there are consequences to one's actions. You would be assured that this individual would never consider taking from you again. Also keep in mind, scrap thieves are often crack/meth heads. Good luck, but I doubt the cops'll do anything about the situation.

You've gotten enough advice here on your current dilemma. But, I have a question: have you considered installing surveillance cameras and putting up signs announcing that fact? The production builders in a lot of areas around here have been doing that for several years now. Don't know if it helps. Guess you have to make your signs in several languages, too. Or, is there a universal symbol for "cameras are watching you steal"?

Anyone else using surveillance cameras?

Camp out in the house with a Marine Magnum under your pillow.

Here is a link that might be useful: Marine Magnum

There was just an article on this in our Sunday paper (or was it last week?) Anyway, it is becoming quite a common crime. The story told of one man who spray painted his pipes neon green and then called all the scrap yards to find them. The records showed who stole them and he was prosecuted. Evidently, scrap yard dealers now have much tighter guidelines for recording the sellers.
Sorry this happened and good luck.
Jo

Sweeby said, "By the way -- Don't call your insurance company to discuss the incident unless you *know* you will be filing a claim. They record such inquiries, and treat them just like a claim in which $0 was paid out. (This from my BIL who worked as a claims adjuster.)"

Very true. Our liability insurance is being canceled because I did as the insurance company REQUIRES and reported an incident. No claim has bee filed and will not be since the incident involved an employee of a contractor with his own insurance. But MY insurance is being canceled! 8-(

Right now I think insurance is a legalized scam.

Well, I have a slightly different take. I agree with everyone that criminals should pay for their crimes. However, the only time we filed criminal charges against anyone his family came around and threatened us. (This was in Chula Vista, a nice suburban area at that time near San Diego.) We went ahead with it and the guy was convicted and nobody came back to blow us away, but I was sure scared. I'd go with some obvious home security at least.

There was a comment about the possibility of retaliation from this would-be thief. It is possible, but actually rarely happens. But if this person thinks you are afraid of him, he will continue to victimize you. Face it, once someone decides that we, or our property, are his victim, then we are his victim, period. Do the right thing, what you must, don't be intimidated. If you know his identity, pay a few dollars for the Zabasearch info. Start a file on him. It might help in the future.

I read an article in the paper about how common copper theft was becoming and how the scrapyards were trying to be more diligent about not buying stolen scrap. I was worried because I had a bunch of leftover copper roof panels that I wanted to sell and was afraid they wouldn't take them due to the fact that they were new and looked like they just walked off a construction site (they did -- mine!). I was careful to bring the receipt for the copper and the paperwork from the coppersmith along to verify that the panels were legally mine. The scrapyard didn't care at all - they unloaded it from the truck, threw it on the scale, weighed it and handed me cash. Never asked my name nor where I got the brand new copper building materials from. So I guess it's an easy way for crackheads to make drug money....I'm not surprised it happens,which of course doesn't mean it doesn't totally stink for the OP. I hope the police catch the guy and that everything works out for the best.

My suggestion, file any charge possible, take "like to learns" advice(know them before they know you) and fear not that which is less than you, still knowing when to stand and when to run(live to fight another day).

"The scrapyard didn't care at all - they unloaded it from the truck, threw it on the scale, weighed it and handed me cash."

I find the idea that they're doing business in cash to be rather troubling. While it's certainly legal (it says so right on this dollar bill in my pocket--"THIS NOTE IS LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS, PUBLIC AND PRIVATE" (caps in the original)), it seems to me that the fact that they're doing business in cash strongly suggests that they are well aware that they are fencing stolen merchandise.

A requirement that they pay by check would go a long ways towards preventing this sort of crime. If you can track the crook right back to his bank account, you've pretty much got him. (Although, in the light of the legal tender laws, such a law might not pass legal scrutiny. But it seems like it would be worth a try.)

In most states theft from a construction site is a totally separate law from petty theft or grande theft and it generally carries a much more severe punishment.

In my jurisdiction $86 value is the dividing line between petty theft and grande theft but $20 is the dividing line between petty theft and grande theft from a construction site.

While an ordinary petty theft may be treated as a mis-demeanor punishable by a fine and probation, even petty theft from a construction site carries a mandatory minimum penalty of $1,000 fine and 12 months in jail for the first offence.

The law here further defines a construction site as any site no matter how slight to which construction permits have been issued.

About three years ago theft of copper pipe and wire from construction sites or vacant homes was rampant in this area. I personally replumbed 21 homes in one year that were rental properties that had sat vacant for a month and the copper was stolen.

Our county finally took a hardline stand on this issue and instituted an ordinace which requires that anyone who turns in more than 20lbs of copper at the scrap yard must sign a disclosure of origin defining how they generated the scrap. For bona fide plumbers, electricians, sheet metal workers or homeowners who are building or doing a rehab at a specific address this is not a problem, but for the crack heads who turn up every couple days with 40 or 50 lbs, they are finding it tough to convince the authorities that they came by it honestly.

The scrap yards are also required to get positive identification for anyone selling copper scrap and they must get a "thumb print" of the person presenting the copper for sale.

As a result of this legislation the theft of copper is no longer a big deal in this area.

Just remember that in this case the OP disturbed the vandals at work. The pipe was not removed from the property. Only crime would be trespassing and perhaps vandalism, altho that might not be proven (who actually cut the pipe out? No one saw that).

I like the way LazyPup's community has dealt with a nasty problem---that's a brilliant idea!

A requirement that they pay by check would go a long ways towards preventing this sort of crime. If you can track the crook right back to his bank account, you've pretty much got him. (Although, in the light of the legal tender laws, such a law might not pass legal scrutiny. But it seems like it would be worth a try.)

Well, it would also cut off a good chunk of their walk-in customers. Keep in mind many lower income people don't have bank accounts to cash a check at.

Seems like positive ID is the best solution.

Whatever they come up with, the bad guys will find a way around it. These crankster/gangsters are a big problem in our country and the only way to stop it is to go after the big guns,the cartels and the huge operations that are supplying the nickel/dimers.Getting rid of the drugs will slow theivery way down and hopefully put the users back on a straight and narrow path in society.

solarpowered: There are a significant number of scrap dealers that know that they are receiving stolen property and don't care. They pay the crackheads a tiny fraction of the true scrap value. That way, their profit is higher.

If this happened to me, one of the steps I'd take would be to visit every recycler and scrap dealer in town. I'd tell them that I know that this person is selling stolen copper around town, and that I know who he is, what he looks like, and what his vehicle looks like. I'd also let them know that I will be watching their business to see who they are doing business with. If anyone at any of these places so much as looked at me the wrong way, I'd go back to the police station and add their names to my report.

I know this advice is too late after you being vandalized, but I might suggest that you have your builder secure your garage with the garage doors/windows and if necessary put in plywood doors for the house if there is anything in there worth stealing. The first thing we did when we started building was build the garage to completion so we would have a safe place to store our supplies. Then when the house had windows installed we put up the back doors to the house and not wanting to put up the front door now (as it could get damaged) we put in a plywood door temporarily. Now the house and garage are secure. Well as secure as can be without an alarm system. Open doors are an invite to anyone and everyone. Even before we had anything to steal I was concerned someone might go in and start a fire or something just to be mean. Having all the openings secure helps me sleep better at night. So sorry this had to happen to you. Also I might add, confronting him the way you did was not the smartest thing. He could have very easily used that pipe on your head. Next time, if there is a next time, get the license number and call the authorities. Questioning a thief won't get you anything, but possibly injured or killed. Good luck and prosecute the creep anyway you can.

That's why I have a license to carry ,,, 357 magnum. While I would only shoot if I had to , I would make sure to scare the hell out of him and he would be spending the next 1/2 hour eating dirt until the police arrived.
Thieves will continue to rob anyone unless they know the owner has a gun and might use it.